"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[sintzu]

If the white hair form turns out to be a thing in the future, Toriyama will have to come up with a new concept.
Because unless it's a new pattern, a new hair color doesn't make sense at this point.

It does cause it's also a fire color.

[dbzfan7]

If that's really gonna be SSJ2B, I will laugh so hard, then wait for people to think it's a great idea later.

Doesn't make sense give him another color, if we're following the same pattern. SSB3 would also be blue.
Just like when they use normal Ki to transform, all the forms are yelow.

If the white hair form turns out to be a thing in the future, Toriyama will have to come up with a new concept.
Because unless it's a new pattern (Gohan Mystic Powers + God Ki for example), a new hair color doesn't make sense at this point.

Another colour. Another blue form. I don't care. Either is really really really stupid. Instead of rehashing, let's actually try being original. SSJ God is at least some form of an attempt. Let's just try that again, but be a little more ballsy.

[Noah]

Another colour. Another blue form. I don't care. Either is really really really stupid. Instead of rehashing, let's actually try being original. SSJ God is at least some form of an attempt. Let's just try that again, but be a little more ballsy.

Exactly. Not just a hair change, maybe change the hairstyle too, some body marks, anything that doesn't seem lazy

[FortuneSSJ]

Another colour. Another blue form. I don't care. Either is really really really stupid. Instead of rehashing, let's actually try being original. SSJ God is at least some form of an attempt. Let's just try that again, but be a little more ballsy.

Not gonna happen. Unless we change the pattern and instead of doing SSB2 or SSB3, go for SSj4, SSJ5, etc...
The chances are low.

[dbzfan7]

Another colour. Another blue form. I don't care. Either is really really really stupid. Instead of rehashing, let's actually try being original. SSJ God is at least some form of an attempt. Let's just try that again, but be a little more ballsy.

Not gonna happen. Unless we change the pattern and instead of doing SSB2 or SSB3, go for SSj4, SSJ5, etc...
The chances are low.

I know the chances are low. Lazy seems to be the new go to option. Used to give SSJ God so much shit, but now SSJB made me have to change my mind. At least it did a little something new. I don't think it's that hard to be simple, but at least be a little more creative.

[alakazam^]

It's not lazy just because you don't like it, though. Toriyama does what Toriyama wants and whatever we ended up with was exactly what he wanted, not lack of creativity or laziness.

[TekTheNinja]

It's not lazy just because you don't like it, though. Toriyama does what Toriyama wants and whatever we ended up with was exactly what he wanted, not lack of creativity or laziness.

Implying Toriyama can't be lazy.

[dbzfan7]

It's not lazy just because you don't like it, though. Toriyama does what Toriyama wants and whatever we ended up with was exactly what he wanted, not lack of creativity or laziness.

It is in my right to call it lazy if I think it is. It is my opinion I am allowed to have. You may disagree, but I've seen Toriyama do a hell of a lot better. Hell him being lazy is something he does. Super Saiyan turned into a way he could save on inking Goku's hair.

[Araki]

It's not lazy just because you don't like it, though. Toriyama does what Toriyama wants and whatever we ended up with was exactly what he wanted, not lack of creativity or laziness.

Implying Toriyama can't be lazy.

The point is that he could easily add something different, say, a pointy ear, a tail, cape or whatever. It's easy. If he doesn't, it's because he doesn't want to.

It's not even like he'll keep drawing the characters himself now, so he doesn't need to be lazy for his own ends.

[ArchedThunder]

Super Saiyan Blue is just going Super Saiyan with God Ki, so of course it looks like regular Super Saiyan, why would SSJ2 be any different?

[alakazam^]

It is in my right to call it lazy if I think it is. It is my opinion I am allowed to have. You may disagree, but I've seen Toriyama do a hell of a lot better. Hell him being lazy is something he does. Super Saiyan turned into a way he could save on inking Goku's hair.

Did I say you're not "allowed" to have an opinion? You don't need to get this defensive. It's only lazy if Toriyama says it was a lazy decision, which he haven't (yet).

He doesn't have a manga to draw each week so why would he get lazy to come up with a couple designs? He likes to troll and "explained" the transformation in the movie proper so that hints Blue ended up exactly like he wanted. People throw around the "lazy" excuse way too often.

About that McDonald's picture, why are people saying that is Super Saiyajin 2's hair? It seems the normal one to me.

[Draconic]

If there is a SSB2 it makes total sense to be just SSJ2 with blue hair. It would be pretty stupid to have a SSB2, though.

[Protege]

Thats exactly how i want Goku to look!!! Badass and Scary, so those kids could have some nightmares toriyama! I dont want Goku to just be a typical good guy

[dbzfan7]

It is in my right to call it lazy if I think it is. It is my opinion I am allowed to have. You may disagree, but I've seen Toriyama do a hell of a lot better. Hell him being lazy is something he does. Super Saiyan turned into a way he could save on inking Goku's hair.

Did I say you're not "allowed" to have an opinion? You don't need to get this defensive. It's only lazy if Toriyama says it was a lazy decision, which he haven't (yet).

He doesn't have a manga to draw each week so why would he get lazy to come up with a couple designs? He likes to troll and "explained" the transformation in the movie proper so that hints Blue ended up exactly like he wanted. People throw around the "lazy" excuse way too often.

About that McDonald's picture, why are people saying that is Super Saiyajin 2's hair? It seems the normal one to me.

No just because someone doesn't say it's lazy, doesn't make it so. That's ridiculous. It's lazy because it's as imaginative as people have been about new forms since the 90's. Something that's popped up literally thousands of times online. Something he's admitted to in the past before when it came to saving time and effort. And yes you essentially are because you're telling me my observation is false despite my personal view seeing things different from yours. The only defensive thing I'm seeing, is someone upset I'm calling Toriyama lazy.

Because sometimes people can take simple, to the extreme. Why be creative when you don't have to be? Why try when you can just reuse what already worked, and stick to that. It's something that's been done a bunch of times. Whether with stories, characters, or designs. Reusing and rehashing is a thing. Creating a more complicated and satisfying design isn't as easy as drawing something on a paper and being done. Especially when it's for something so popular with many eyes about to witness it. Lazy can be a multitude of ways. From ideas that couldn't be thought of. From fear of backlash. Just not being bothered to try. There can be a multitude of reasons. What I see is what I've seen on the internet for years. What was mocked to hell and back, but now is suddenly ok because god did it years later.

[kinisking]

Thats exactly how i want Goku to look!!! Badass and Scary, so those kids could have some nightmares toriyama! I dont want Goku to just be a typical good guy

Lol watch another show if you want someone scary. Goku just isn't that type of character. Never has been

[Hellspawn28]

Thats exactly how i want Goku to look!!! Badass and Scary, so those kids could have some nightmares toriyama! I dont want Goku to just be a typical good guy

Goku is a typical good guy. If Goku turn into someone that rips people guts out, eats their brains and rapes them than Goku is no longer Goku. Goku is always been the person with a cheerful, energetic personality. Why change something that people like for over 30 years?

[alakazam^]

No just because someone doesn't say it's lazy, doesn't make it so. That's ridiculous. It's lazy because it's as imaginative as people have been about new forms since the 90's. Something that's popped up literally thousands of times online. Something he's admitted to in the past before when it came to saving time and effort. And yes you essentially are because you're telling me my observation is false despite my personal view seeing things different from yours. The only defensive thing I'm seeing, is someone upset I'm calling Toriyama lazy.

Because sometimes people can take simple, to the extreme. Why be creative when you don't have to be? Why try when you can just reuse what already worked, and stick to that. It's something that's been done a bunch of times. Whether with stories, characters, or designs. Reusing and rehashing is a thing. Creating a more complicated and satisfying design isn't as easy as drawing something on a paper and being done. Especially when it's for something so popular with many eyes about to witness it. Lazy can be a multitude of ways. From ideas that couldn't be thought of. From fear of backlash. Just not being bothered to try. There can be a multitude of reasons. What I see is what I've seen on the internet for years. What was mocked to hell and back, but now is suddenly ok because god did it years later.

Toriyama has no problem in talking about his laziness but he hasn't concerning Blue, so what's the conclusion? Of course I can say your observation is false because you have no proof to support it. I can't say I have a lot of proof either but my reasoning has nothing to do with western fans and their creations/expectations, it's based on the man himself. Can you see the difference?

Ok, so people had around 20 years to brainstorm transformations and you're surprised changing hair colors was already done? You know fully well Toriyama wasn't going around the internet (especially the western side) seeing what fans had been doing, right? Why does this argument keep popping up when the man has no idea fans had given them rainbow colors since ever? It's the same as bringing back Freeza. In the manga, he only came back in mecha form but people keep talking about GT and the movies as reasons for why Freeza coming back didn't make sense.

I said you couldn't call him lazy just because you expected something different, you responded with "rights" and you don't think that's being defensive? Again, he did exactly what he wanted, this means he's satisfied with Blue's design and he wouldn't want it any other way. If he was being lazy, he wouldn't have redesigned God or rewritten the movie, why bother doing that, right? You say I'm being defensive because I didn't like you calling Toriyama lazy but what I'm seeing is that, not only have you not provided any proof of him being lazy with these designs but you're also using your own bias based on what you think "creativity" is and the way (western) fans ideas have been received and lumping them all together. That's what's ridiculous because nothing of that has an influence on Toriyama.

[dbzfan7]

No just because someone doesn't say it's lazy, doesn't make it so. That's ridiculous. It's lazy because it's as imaginative as people have been about new forms since the 90's. Something that's popped up literally thousands of times online. Something he's admitted to in the past before when it came to saving time and effort. And yes you essentially are because you're telling me my observation is false despite my personal view seeing things different from yours. The only defensive thing I'm seeing, is someone upset I'm calling Toriyama lazy.

Because sometimes people can take simple, to the extreme. Why be creative when you don't have to be? Why try when you can just reuse what already worked, and stick to that. It's something that's been done a bunch of times. Whether with stories, characters, or designs. Reusing and rehashing is a thing. Creating a more complicated and satisfying design isn't as easy as drawing something on a paper and being done. Especially when it's for something so popular with many eyes about to witness it. Lazy can be a multitude of ways. From ideas that couldn't be thought of. From fear of backlash. Just not being bothered to try. There can be a multitude of reasons. What I see is what I've seen on the internet for years. What was mocked to hell and back, but now is suddenly ok because god did it years later.

Toriyama has no problem in talking about his laziness but he hasn't concerning Blue, so what's the conclusion? Of course I can say your observation is false because you have no proof to support it. I can't say I have a lot of proof either but my reasoning has nothing to do with western fans and their creations/expectations, it's based on the man himself. Can you see the difference?

Ok, so people had around 20 years to brainstorm transformations and you're surprised changing hair colors was already done? You know fully well Toriyama wasn't going around the internet (especially the western side) seeing what fans had been doing, right? Why does this argument keep popping up when the man has no idea fans had given them rainbow colors since ever? It's the same as bringing back Freeza. In the manga, he only came back in mecha form but people keep talking about GT and the movies as reasons for why Freeza coming back didn't make sense.

I said you couldn't call him lazy just because you expected something different, you responded with "rights" and you don't think that's being defensive? Again, he did exactly what he wanted, this means he's satisfied with Blue's design and he wouldn't want it any other way. If he was being lazy, he wouldn't have redesigned God or rewritten the movie, why bother doing that, right? You say I'm being defensive because I didn't like you calling Toriyama lazy but what I'm seeing is that, not only have you not provided any proof of him being lazy with these designs but you're also using your own bias based on what you think "creativity" is and the way (western) fans ideas have been received and lumping them all together. That's what's ridiculous because nothing of that has an influence on Toriyama.

I don't think he needs to spell out his feelings all the time. He doesn't need to say he's lazy just to get that point across. Also no your point as opinionated as my own. I think it's lazy not just by our standards, but by his own standards too. That's what I believe.

The point is not simply just whether he looked this stuff up or not. Who really knows. Do you? I don't think so. Neither do I. My main point is by his own standards, and the fact this is stuff people thought was stupid years ago. People have done this for years. People are called out for being unoriginal and lazy for drawing or photoshoping recolours of old forms and calling it something new. Yet suddenly because it's done officially, now it's no longer stupid. But those people who already have done that years ago, they're still lazy and stupid anyways.

I did not respond with rights. I respond with my OPINION. MY OBSERVATION. He changed things based on his own tastes of course. I am not calling battle of gods lazy. I am calling blue and the idea of white lazy. SSJ God at least tried to do something a little different while keeping things simple. Blue does nothing. You can be lazy with some ideas and not lazy with everything. Who knows. Again all I am seeing is someone pissed off I called him lazy on the design of blue. Get a damn grip. You have no proof either. As I said these are based on observations. So quit being so butthurt about my observation. You want to think it's wrong and not like it, fine. It's lazy and unimaginative. On par with anyone from the 90's who did this.

[alakazam^]

It's funny you have to point out you have the right to state your opinion and that I'm doing the same because I never said otherwise, it's not something I'm not aware of. What I said is that you have no real arguments to call him lazy and that's true because opinions aren't facts and the argument of 90's fans being bashed hold no water in this context. His art style changed. His mentality changed. His standards changed.

Do I really need to know if he went into English websites looking for Dragon Ball art? The man didn't want to have anything to do with Dragon Ball for decades and the fact he had no idea Dragon Ball was still this popular says a lot.

What do I care if people thought hair colors were stupid? What do I care if they got called stupid and unoriginal? I didn't do it, I don't know those people and my mind isn't made up by what others say. I've already noticed you have issues with people bashing 90's fans for something and loving it when Toriyama does it, but guess what? The ones who bashed probably still do and these aren't the same people loving what Toriyama does. It's exactly what you point out when the topic is Gohan or Piccolo.

Again all I am seeing is someone pissed off I called him lazy on the design of blue. Get a damn grip. You have no proof either. As I said these are based on observations. So quit being so butthurt about my observation.

Yeah well, if this is the quality of conversation you want to have, I'm gonna step down. If you can't handle people criticizing what you say (even though you said many times people are allowed to complain lol) on a public forum, you should do something about it.

[kinisking]

It's not lazy at all because technically these aren't new forms. ssb is just ss with god ki. The only lazy transformation is super saiyan 2.