Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, and the anime showed Assault Frost>Base Goku, who was stronger than he was when he fought equally with Freeza. At worst, they're around the same level.

Freeza is Golden Freeza, btw. If Frost trained, he could surpass Golden Freeza. That has no affect on my rankings.

[Speedster]

Doesn't matter how powerful Champa is if the technique is too good.

Of course it does. If an ant stops the time and hit an elephant the elephant will feel nothing. Hit could be stopping time as match as he wants it will be like me punching a brick wall. Also Goku showed that he can counter Tokitobashi. You forget that SBKKx10 Goku moved inside frozen time. Besides unless Hit plans to freeze the time forever Champa can unleash a omnidirectional blast spanning the diameter of a galaxy and have energy as much you need to destroy the universe 10 times. Wherever Hit tries to go will be hit and wiped out. Not just that but even Botamo who is supposedly invulnerable was shit scared by Champa's wrath.

[Lord Beerus]

When was that ever confirmed?

Whis says himself "I'm surprised there's someone who can control time apart from me!" in ep 38.

Pretty sure he was talking about Hit in regard to his Time-Skip ability that was displaying in fight against SSJB Vegeta,

[Chiki]

Doesn't matter how powerful Champa is if the technique is too good.

Of course it does. If an ant stops the time and hit an elephant the elephant will feel nothing. Hit could be stopping time as match as he wants it will be like me punching a brick wall. Also Goku showed that he can counter Tokitobashi. You forget that SBKKx10 Goku moved inside frozen time. Besides unless Hit plans to freeze the time forever Champa can unleash a omnidirectional blast spanning the diameter of a galaxy and have energy as much you need to destroy the universe 10 times. Wherever Hit tries to go will be hit and wiped out. Not just that but even Botamo who is supposedly invulnerable was shit scared by Champa's wrath.

Well, as of ep 40 Tokitobashi still works on SSB x10 Goku because it keeps improving. Also, since it's certain that SSB x10 Goku is stronger than Beerus and Champa (doesn't mean he would win in a fight though), Tokitobashi would work on Champa too. And despite Goku being more than x10 as powerful as Hit physically (it was confirmed in ep 39 that Hit can only get stronger via his Tokitobashi improving), Hit could still hurt Goku by hitting his vitals, meaning that he could hurt Champa too.

When was that ever confirmed?

Whis says himself "I'm surprised there's someone who can control time apart from me!" in ep 38.

Pretty sure he was talking about Hit in regard to his Time-Skip ability that was displaying in fight against SSJB Vegeta,

He used the phrase "control time" and so did I.

[Faisal Shourov]

Also, since it's certain that SSB x10 Goku is stronger than Beerus and Champa.

You just lost all credibility with that headcanon statement, even ignoring Toriyama's interview and what's shown in the anime.

[Chiki]

Also, since it's certain that SSB x10 Goku is stronger than Beerus and Champa.

You just lost all credibility with that headcanon statement, even ignoring Toriyama's interview and what's shown in the anime.

If you care so much about Toriyama's interviews, then let's bring up another one, where he said SSG Goku is a 6 and Beerus is 10. SSB Goku is stronger than SSG, but let's say he is a 6. SSB x10 Kaioken Goku is a 60. How do you propose that SSB x10 Kaioken Goku isn't stronger than Beerus then? You're the one who said we should look at Toriyama's interviews.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Lord Beerus]

He used the phrase "control time" and so did I.

And that was Hit does; he literally controls time by stopping it for as long as he pleases. Besides, why would Whis be even referring to Vados to begin with? She has nothing to do with what was the main interest in the episode, which was Hit kicking Vegeta's ass.

[Faisal Shourov]

If you care so much about Toriyama's interviews, then let's bring up another one, where he said SSG Goku is a 6 and Beerus is 10. SSB Goku is stronger than SSG, but let's say he is a 6. SSB x10 Kaioken Goku is a 60. How do you propose that SSB x10 Kaioken Goku isn't stronger than Beerus then? You're the one who said we should look at Toriyama's interviews.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I am talking about the latest interview, not the 3 year old one. Do you even know about the existence of the new interview? It doesn't appear so

Toyotarō:
… I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama:
Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

You just directly contradicted what Toriyama said in the latest interview with your headcanon

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think it's time to discard that BoG 6/10 scale. It's ass.

[Chiki]

If you care so much about Toriyama's interviews, then let's bring up another one, where he said SSG Goku is a 6 and Beerus is 10. SSB Goku is stronger than SSG, but let's say he is a 6. SSB x10 Kaioken Goku is a 60. How do you propose that SSB x10 Kaioken Goku isn't stronger than Beerus then? You're the one who said we should look at Toriyama's interviews.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I am talking about the latest interview, not the 3 year old one. Do you even know about the existence of the new interview? It doesn't appear so

Toyotarō:
… I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama:
Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

You just directly contradicted what Toriyama said in the latest interview with your headcanon

Is this headcanon? Why do you think this scene happened then?

[Saiyan007]

I think it's time to discard that BoG 6/10 scale. It's ass.

Why people cling to it when it was made for the movie a couple years ago is beyond me

Is this headcanon? Why do you think this scene happened then?

Does it matter it's clearly a gag scene, what's next Champa being hurt by a table should be used in debates?

What matters is Champa openly said he was going to kill his team he even mentioned time skip isn't going to stop him you even saw Hit's face with visible concern on it

Beerus and Toriyama statement means Goku is still much weaker than him

[Chiki]

I think it's time to discard that BoG 6/10 scale. It's ass.

Why people cling to it when it was made for the movie a couple years ago is beyond me

Is this headcanon? Why do you think this scene happened then?

Does it matter it's clearly a gag scene, what's next Champa being hurt by a table should be used in debates?

What matters is Champa openly said he was going to kill his team he even mentioned time skip isn't going to stop him you even saw Hit's face with visible concern on it

It wasn't a gag scene though. It wasn't funny at all.

[Saiyan007]

I think it's time to discard that BoG 6/10 scale. It's ass.

Why people cling to it when it was made for the movie a couple years ago is beyond me

Is this headcanon? Why do you think this scene happened then?

Does it matter it's clearly a gag scene, what's next Champa being hurt by a table should be used in debates?

What matters is Champa openly said he was going to kill his team he even mentioned time skip isn't going to stop him you even saw Hit's face with visible concern on it

It wasn't a gag scene though. It wasn't funny at all.

yeah him failing his arms frantically which leads to him falling on his chair and sputtering nonsense wasn't supposed to portray humor but when Champa is dead serious and tells hit right in his face that his time skip isn't going to work why did hit look so concern then?

[Birusu16]

I think it's time to discard that BoG 6/10 scale. It's ass.

Why people cling to it when it was made for the movie a couple years ago is beyond me

Is this headcanon? Why do you think this scene happened then?

Does it matter it's clearly a gag scene, what's next Champa being hurt by a table should be used in debates?

What matters is Champa openly said he was going to kill his team he even mentioned time skip isn't going to stop him you even saw Hit's face with visible concern on it

Beerus and Toriyama statement means Goku is still much weaker than him

Not to mention Beerus flat out saying to Goku that he's welcome to fight a god of destruction if he wanted to change the rules despite just witnessing Goku's KK x10.

Anyway, my list:

1. Whis/Vados
2. Beerus
3. Champa
4. Goku (with SSJB + KK x10)
5. Hit/Vegeta
6. Golden Freeza

Those are really the only relevant ones so I'm not even going to list the rest. Also, I didn't list Zeno because we don't know if he's truly powerful or just has a high ranking. Zarama could be as high as above Whis/Vados or as low as below Champa and Beerus.

I think it's time to discard that BoG 6/10 scale. It's ass.

Agree with this as well.

[Faisal Shourov]

Is this headcanon? Why do you think this scene happened then?

Same as Yamcha slapping Beerus on the shoulder? Now what Yamcha > Beerus?

This is Hit is scared of Champa down below.



Do I need to share the latest interview quote again and again?

Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama:Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

[Faisal Shourov]

For those who think their headcanon supersedes Toriyama's new interview and the anime



I hope I don't have to quote the texts again

[Chiki]

It wasn't a gag scene though. It wasn't funny at all.

yeah him failing his arms frantically which leads to him falling on his chair and sputtering nonsense wasn't supposed to portray humor but when Champa is dead serious and tells hit right in his face that his time skip isn't going to work why did hit look so concern then?[/quote]

I thought it was just him being afraid, but if you find it funny good for you. Why would he not do sputter nonsense if he wasn't scared?

Gag scenes in Dragon Ball actually always can be explained logically. There is a logical explanation for Champa hurting his knee when he hit the table. We know that he and others can lower their ki at will when they're relaxed. Bulma can beat the shit out of Goku too when he's relaxed; she did so in BoG. Champa can be hurt by a table when he's relaxing and not powered up at all.

Champa was angry and being irrational: he had no way to handle the Tokitobashi. Hit was afraid to fight a God of Destruction, duh, and he doesn't know Champa's abilities. But we know for a fact Beerus and Champa have no special abilities (well, not for sure actually) unlike Whis and Vados so I don't see what they could do against Hit.

Do I need to share the latest interview quote again and again, until it gets inside your head? One more time

Pretty sure this is starting to break the rules.

Anyway, I've already said (someone else brought up this interview) that I don't think Goku can defeat Champa even with the Kaioken due to its side-effects and time limit. It's really that simple. I think Champa > Goku > Vegeta EVEN IF x10 SSB Goku is more powerful than Champa. USSJ Trunks is maybe more powerful than Perfect Cell, but that's not good enough.

For those who think their headcanon supersedes Toriyama's new interview and the anime

I don't think Goku could defeat Beerus. How do you propose Beerus and Champa could defeat Hit though? Please give me an explanation.

[Cipher]

For those who think their headcanon supersedes Toriyama's new interview and the anime

*gif*

I hope I don't have to quote the texts again

There's no way Goku could defeat Beerus or Champa in that moment, or likely even having rested with full use of the Kaio-Ken. We just saw what happened when he tried to use it against Hit -- Hit was able to outlast it. Partly with the help of his time-skip technique, but Beerus being able to avoid Goku for the minute or so he could maintain that power is just as likely.

Goku isn't remotely ready to beat Beerus. That doesn't mean the raw power of the Kaio-Ken couldn't spike him past him in a straight comparison though.

So basically nothing indicates that Whis > Beerus in the DbS Anime.

Quite a bit does, from the cheeky tone of his reply when asked if he's stronger to his effortlessly handling Goku and Vegeta, commenting that he's using techniques even Beerus hasn't quite mastered.

[Faisal Shourov]

I don't think Goku could defeat Beerus. How do you propose Beerus and Champa could defeat Hit though? Please give me an explanation.

Speedblitz. Champa can blitz and KO Hit before Hit can do anything. Champa's speed >>>>>>>>>>>>> Goku by feats, it's not even comparable (Chapter 6 from DBS manga). Hit has zero speed feats to suggest he could stop a blitz from Champa. Champa is a freaking Hakaishin, if Goku could figure out how the move works, Champa would do better, he explicitly stated Tokitoboshi is useless against him and Hit pooped his pants when Champa got serious and furious.

You want me to post Champa's speed scans? Hit has nothing on that

[Chiki]

I don't think Goku could defeat Beerus. How do you propose Beerus and Champa could defeat Hit though? Please give me an explanation.

Speedblitz. Champa can blitz and KO Hit before Hit can do anything. Champa's speed >>>>>>>>>>>>> Goku by feats, it's not even comparable (Chapter 6 from DBS manga). Hit has zero speed feats to suggest he could stop a blitz from Champa. Champa is a freaking Hakaishin, if Goku could figure out how the move works, Champa would do better, he explicitly stated Tokitoboshi is useless against him and Hit pooped his pants when Champa got serious and furious.

You want me to post Champa's speed scans? Hit has nothing on that

Well.. I just reread Chapter 6, and I didn't see a single speed feat. I did see a very impressive physical feat though; the guy kicked a planet apart LOL.