Super is not so bad like someone says

[fadeddreams5]

ROF arc was simply just awful, both narratively and conceptually. Easily the worst ARC in this series.

Agreed. That arc was total bollocks. I just pretend that arc never happened.

At the very least we'd get back to the GT level where we're getting interesting ideas, Super doesn't even really have that. It's GT if there wasn't even an iota of an interesting concept to be seen to help balance out lackluster execution.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. GT was very guilty rehashing old ideas and even then they couldn't pull them off properly. The only idea I really found interesting in GT was the Shadow Dragons and they still managed to fuck that up. Super, while a bit uneventful at the beginning, to it's credits, it has brought a lot of interesting concepts to the table such as multiple universes, a galactic king, God's of Destructions, literal omniscient beings and an expansion on the lore of the Dragon Balls that doesn't feel as out of place as it did in GT. If the future episode title spoilers of the show are any indication, they're gonna start exploring the other universes. I've never felt this hyped for GT as I have been for Super. If Super does drop the ball with these concepts, then it's on them, but let's just wait and see how thing pan out.

BoG introduced the concept of multiple universes and gods of destruction, and Jaco introduced the galactic king, not Super.

The expansion of the Dragon Ball lore has been terrible, imo. They've diminished the status the Namekians had in the universe by establishing that the dragon balls were not their original creations. And knowing how Super is, I wouldn't be surprised if when the dragon god or Zarama are revealed, they'll be comical and reveal they created the super dragon balls for some asinine reason.

[TheMikado]

^ exactly, agree wholeheartedly

[pacz360]

The show simply needs to put someone in charge who's taken a good hard look at what the previous series did well, what they screwed up and avoid those same pitfalls again. Some will say new characters replacing existing ones who can fulfil the same function, characters acting a certain way when previous events should've made them stop is part of the series DNA but here's the thing: that doesn't make it automatically good.

And for a franchise as old as this, I really do find it completely baffling that there isn't any half-way creative voice with some level of competence saying "Uhm.... You guys did these exact same mistakes with GT.... Can we like.... NOT repeat them again?".

I don't know, I just get the feeling people have this weird double standard with Dragon Ball where anything that's been a long-term part of its so-called DNA is automatically good and doesn't need fixing.

Maybe this is a consequence of Toriyama coming back but I really do think that if they got some competent fresh blood onto the writing side, we'd see a marked improvement in overall story-telling quality. At the very least we'd get back to the GT level where we're getting interesting ideas, Super doesn't even really have that. It's GT if there wasn't even an iota of an interesting concept to be seen to help balance out lackluster execution.

Tbh it like the wwe with db instead fixing the mistake in the past we'll continue it in the future.

Thank God I don't watch WWE. If Dragon Ball was this smaller scale franchise that vanished from the public eye, I would probably be less critical of it. But given the fact the series has existed this long and has been so present for years and years and years, I just find it obnoxious that no one, not a single soul who's working on Super right now has went back to it and said "This is broken, we should fix it."
Well as long as it makes shitloads of money they don't give a shit.

[Lord Beerus]

BoG introduced the concept of multiple universes and gods of destruction, and Jaco introduced the galactic king, not Super.

And Jaco introduced the Galacic King... in Super.

[fadeddreams5]

BoG introduced the concept of multiple universes and gods of destruction, and Jaco introduced the galactic king, not Super.

And Jaco introduced the Galacic King... in Super.

I thought he appeared in Minus.

[TheMikado]

I stand corrected on visiting the Saiyans!! Looking forward to it.

[Lord Beerus]

BoG introduced the concept of multiple universes and gods of destruction, and Jaco introduced the galactic king, not Super.

And Jaco introduced the Galacic King... in Super.

I thought he appeared in Minus.

He did briefly appear in Minus. But he wasn't really formally introduced until Super.

[fadeddreams5]

He did briefly appear in Minus. But he wasn't really formally introduced until Super.

The concept still came from the Jaco manga though. =P

On a side note, looks like I was, thankfully, wrong about the super dragon ball's dragon.

[Hellspawn28]

They've diminished the status the Namekians had in the universe by establishing that the dragon balls were not their original creations. .

I love that idea to be honest. It gives more history on the Dragon Balls and on where they came from. Did people think the Nameks created them on their own? I always believe that they got the idea from someone or something.

[fadeddreams5]

They've diminished the status the Namekians had in the universe by establishing that the dragon balls were not their original creations. .

I love that idea to be honest. It gives more history on the Dragon Balls and on where they came from. Did people think the Nameks created them on their own? I always believe that they got the idea from someone or something.

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of expanding the lore of the dragon balls, such as exploring the source that allowed Namekian to create them, or the origins of the Namekians themselves.

Them creating them from shards of a planet sized dragon ball that just happened to be there completely strips them of their association with these artifacts in the first place.

[TheMikado]

They've diminished the status the Namekians had in the universe by establishing that the dragon balls were not their original creations. .

I love that idea to be honest. It gives more history on the Dragon Balls and on where they came from. Did people think the Nameks created them on their own? I always believe that they got the idea from someone or something.

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of expanding the lore of the dragon balls, such as exploring the source that allowed Namekian to create them, or the origins of the Namekians themselves.

Them creating them from shards of a planet sized dragon ball that just happened to be there completely strips them of their association with these artifacts in the first place.

I have to agree with that, especially if the shards they created them from existed before they were born why do they become inactive. I always assumed their very existence was linked to their life force.
This also means that Dende somehow had shards of super Dragonballs?

[DragonHermit]

They've diminished the status the Namekians had in the universe by establishing that the dragon balls were not their original creations. And knowing how Super is, I wouldn't be surprised if when the dragon god or Zarama are revealed, they'll be comical and reveal they created the super dragon balls for some asinine reason.

This reminds me of college students shutting down yoga classes for disabled kids because they were being culturally insensitive to Indian culture.

The Super Dragon Balls stem from a power source greater than the 2 universes combined. The Namekians being a mystical race that was able to harness that energy does not "diminish" their role in their slightest, but it even increases it, because it leads to the question as to how the Namekians were able to even come into contact with what are arguably the strongest artifacts in the multiverse.

This is like saying Bill Gates' role in creating Microsoft is diminished, because you found out he didn't invent the first computer.

[fadeddreams5]

Assuming the super dragon balls have no adverse effect after granting a wish, their entire existence is redundant. You can just as easily create a lore related to the namekian dragon balls that proclaim their magical properties to stem from a power greater than two universes combined--a power that wouldn't be... another set of dragon balls. This could be tied into the origins of the namekians, their original creators.

The super dragon balls serve no purpose but to remove the association that race/species has with the dragon balls. They're merely a group of aliens that happened to come across a magical artifact anyone else could have, collected shards from it, and replicated it for their own purposes. Geez, they never even did anything with their creations within the series--other people did.

[DragonHermit]

Again, your point makes absolutely no sense. It's like a saying a musician's role is diminished because he didn't invent the instrument, a writer's role is diminished because he didn't invent the pen, a programmer's role is diminished because he didn't invent the computer.

You're making it sound as if though the Nameks coming into contact with the SDBs and somehow harnessing that energy into their own microcosm is some ordinary feat, that anyone can do.

[Kuririn Fan]

Dragon Ball Super is fucking awesome!
I love the lore, i love everything, can't wait to see where our God Toriyama takes us next!

[ChronoTwigger]

IT WAS bad, now thank to some strange godly figure, it's became good enough to create real hype. What technically lack is greatly surpassed by episode schedule, obscure NEP and new chara or plot mistery each time. No one know what come next, no manga told you, and wtf I'm sleeping all the week waiting for news in the weekend. While in GT you already know what's next (bash the monster, collect the sphere, get away).

[fadeddreams5]

Again, your point makes absolutely no sense. It's like a saying a musician's role is diminished because he didn't invent the instrument, a writer's role is diminished because he didn't invent the pen, a programmer's role is diminished because he didn't invent the computer.

You're making it sound as if though the Nameks coming into contact with the SDBs and somehow harnessing that energy into their own microcosm is some ordinary feat, that anyone can do.

My point is simple: they no longer have the same association with the dragon balls they once did. This has made them less interesting. They just so happened to have come across an object, extracted pieces from it, and replicated it. That's not to say their feat in making accessible copies of the dragon balls is not significant, but who's to say another alien race couldn't do that? The magical properties were already there, so there may have been a science to it. Now, if it turned out Zarama was a super namekian god ,and only namekians from both universes can harness the power to create copies, that's pretty cool.

That said, I still find super dragon balls (and black star dragon balls, on that note) to be redundant. They could have made the same story with just the regular pair after some sort of upgrade...

[DragonHermit]

They just so happened to have come across an object, extracted pieces from it, and replicated it.

I love how you say that so nonchalantly. Yeah, some aliens with little technology came into contact with spheres the sizes of planets floating around the universe hundreds of years before the story began. Completely boring.

[fadeddreams5]

Only cause within the context of this crazy universe, any other alien could have done the same. So many have access to spaceships. =P

[TekTheNinja]

Dragon Ball Super is fucking awesome!
I love the lore, i love everything, can't wait to see where our God Toriyama takes us next!

Sounds like something RhymeStyle would say. That guy has basically NEVER criticized the series at all.