Can Goku beat Beerus now?

[Meirizone]

Why do people keep saying Goku can't beat Beerus? it was stated in BoG that Goku=6 and Beerus=10.
After that, Goku and Vegeta had extremely intensive training with Whis, became SSB and let's not forget the 3 years training at the HTC.
Let's go far and say this training didn't do anything and Goku is still 6.
Goku(SSB)= 6
Beerus(full power)=10
Goku(SSB+KK1)=9
Goku(SSB+KK10)=60

How can't he beat Beerus at this point? am i missing something?

[VegettoEX]

Why do people keep saying Goku can't beat Beerus?

In the web version of the Toriyama/Toyotaro interview posted earlier this month, Toriyama stated:

Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

And for the point about numbers...

it was stated in BoG that Goku=6 and Beerus=10.

That was never stated in the film itself. It was a comment made by Akira Toriyama in the "Godly Interview" as a part of the film's anime comic release:

I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.

The statement with the numbers was also roughly two and a half years ago. Toriyama is more than entitled to change his mind, and likely did so once the opportunity for a larger story to unfold came about.

This all being said, AT SOME POINT of course it may be possible for Goku and/or Vegeta to turn the tables, but the most recent word from Toriyama is that he currently has no plans for that.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

He's got to be getting close. He's able to at least generate sweat beads on Champa and Beerus already.

[Meirizone]

Well, even if the numbers don't mean anything, Goku has to be <11% of Beerus' full power for his 10x Kaio-ken to not beat Beerus.
I find it hard to believe that SSB Goku is not AT LEAST 11% of Beerus. I know AT stated he has no plans for it to happen soon but it really doesn't make any sense...

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Well, even if the numbers don't mean anything, Goku has to be <11% of Beerus' full power for his 10x Kaio-ken to not beat Beerus.
I find it hard to believe that SSB Goku is not AT LEAST 11% of Beerus. I know AT stated he has no plans for it to happen soon but it really doesn't make any sense...

Maybe kaioken isn't just a strait multiplier.

[TheDBZmaster100]

I hope that he and Vegeta never surpasses both the deities and their attendants.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Probably not.

[Pannaliciour]

No plans to surpass Beerus? Doesn't mean they can be equal to Beerus, right?

[Slamscape]

That was never stated in the film itself. It was a comment made by Akira Toriyama

Whis stated along the lines near the end of the movie to beerus that it had been a long time since he'd seen Beerus use around 70% of his power.
Which basically lines right up with what Akira stated.

DBS is just all over the damn place.
For SsjB KKx10 goku to still be under Beerus, it would mean that regular SsjB Goku to be well under 10% Beerus.
Take away the years of training Goku had since first meeting Beerus, and you get his first time power as a SSJG to be pathetic compared to Beerus, likely not even worth his attention.
Which also would directly go against Beerus statement on using 10% power on raging Ssj2 Vegeta.

[Lord Beerus]

No. Goku will only defeat Beerus until the plot demands it to happen.

[Xeztin]

I'm not sure Goku will ever be able to beat Beerus, It'd destroy his role as God of Destruction if well, he can't destroy a certain planet because of someone who's stronger than him. I could see them being tied to a point where if they fight they'd destroy the universe plus kill themselves, but that's about it.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I'm not sure Goku will ever be able to beat Beerus, It'd destroy his role as God of Destruction if well, he can't destroy a certain planet because of someone who's stronger than him.

Well to be fair, that's what many people thought happened with Monaka until the truth was revealed.

[Shi_Neko13]

How about this question: Who Cares?
Why does everyone seem to be so hung up on can Goku beat Beerus or Whis or anybody else for that matter. Who gives a crap? Is there a reason he should beat Beerus? Beerus isn't a threat to Earth anymore and Goku even treats him like a friend. Will everyone sleep better knowing Goku is the ultimate winner? Since we now know Monaka was a weakling that means Goku actually IS the strongest person Beerus has ever fought, which makes him the most powerful mortal in the universe. That's pretty cool! I'd rather there were unreachable heights for our main characters, let the depths of Beerus's power be truly incomprehensible. It'd be great that if they ever came back to Goku trying to fight Beerus after a bunch of power-ups or whatever and still have Beerus kick him to the curb.

I'm not totally serious about this, but honestly I don't care who the strongest guy is, just give me a good plot and some awesome fights. I love all the characters in Dragonball but have never been concerned with power scaling or who can beat who.

[JoeCapricorn]

Here are my thoughts, which are probably different from my previous thoughts, since my thoughts change according to how the series is going.

Episode 43 may provide reinforcement to my theory.

Goku using Kaioken and Super Saiyan Blue is indeed stronger than Beerus in terms of sheer power level, but that does not mean Goku would beat Beerus in a truly life or death battle (as in they both try to kill each other) using Kaioken. For one, it is not a level of power he can maintain, and Beerus would likely find a way to use the difference in power against Goku. Or he would survive for the few minutes Goku is able to maintain the Kaioken before he is forced to stop using it because of its deleterious effects on his body.

There's also no reason to doubt that Beerus would have a way to improve during battle - how did he get to his level of strength in the first place?

So, even with Kaioken surpassing Beerus in power technically, Goku has not surpassed Beerus. So far, he doesn't have a need to either, Beerus isn't a threat. If that changes and the need arises, Goku will surpass Beerus without Kaioken then.

[Xeztin]

I'm not sure Goku will ever be able to beat Beerus, It'd destroy his role as God of Destruction if well, he can't destroy a certain planet because of someone who's stronger than him.

Well to be fair, that's what many people thought happened with Monaka until the truth was revealed.

I took it as he was just a stronger person than Goku, I figured he'd have a hard time with him but I assumed if he lost to this 1st person when it was first talked about in BOG he'd be dead.

[Faisal Shourov]

That 6-10-15 statement was retconned by Akira's new interview. If it was valid Goku would one shot Whis, as 60 >>>> 15. Hit would one shot Vados and run away with the cube.

[Overlord78]

No he can't. If Toriyama recently stated that Goku won't be surpassing Beerus anytime soon, then that's how it is until the plot demands that Goku surpasses him.

[Nguyenkim]

I think there is no anything relate the power of SSJG (red hair) with SSJB (blue hair) so we can't say Goku could beat Beerus now, even with Kaio-ken 10x

[Slamscape]

I think there is no anything relate the power of SSJG (red hair) with SSJB (blue hair) so we can't say Goku could beat Beerus now, even with Kaio-ken 10x

Not according to statements in episode 24.


And then we get people like the guy on the linked comment here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xztbPJi ... heru1i1avc

Attempting to claim raging ssj2 vegeta pre God power. To have been a stronger power than SSJG goku against Beerus.
All because of he events of the KKx10.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I think it might be time to apply Bellisario's Maxim here.