So what episodes count as filler?

[Bullza]

I don't know if it's accurate to refer to them as filler or perhaps Anime only or Toei original etc but I saw this yesterday...

https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 88/photo/1

And it would appear as though the upcoming Black Goku/Future Trunks arc is what Toriyama is doing to follow up the Universe 6 arc and so the current mini arc were on right now would be considered "filler" as it wasn't something that Toriyama came up with but Toei did surely in order to give Toriyama time to come up with something.

So what other episodes can that be said for?

We have episodes 2, 15, 16, 17, 18 (most of it), 30 (was mainly flashbacks), 42, 43, 44, 45 and 46 that seem to possibly lean towards being all Toei's doing but perhaps Toriyama was behind the first episode?

Perhaps we'll alternate between Toei mini arcs and Toriyama main arcs for as long as the series continues.

[Darkprince410]

I think it's better, for the sake of Super, to call them "slice of life" episodes rather than filler episodes, as filler, especially when it comes to Dragon Ball, usually entails the whole "content not in the manga" thing. Calling them slice of life gives that general notion that they're not necessarily episodes actually pertaining to the overall plot of the arc they're in (if they're in a story arc to begin with) and are sort of filling space while still being at least somewhat relevant all in all.

[Raditz]

I guess if someone wanted to skip the "filler", they could just watch the BoG and RoF movies, and then jump straight into the U6 saga.
The kind of filler this show has is in every episode, with the slow pace and the unnecesary explanatios. The rest are just "slice of life" episodes.

[sintzu]

Episode 15 could be called a filler episode cause it has nothing to do with the arcs it's set between.

Episode 42 also fits that description and the next 5 episodes might be the same but we'll have to wait and see.

The word filler is usually used to describe episodes that aren't part of the manga's story so with this not following a manga it might be best to call them side episodes, break episodes or slice of life episode.

[Bullza]

Most of the "filler" does seem kind of slice of lifeish because it happens between arcs and acts as a bit of a resting period though with what's to come with a copy Vegeta and them fighting him doesn't sound like the typical slice of life stuff at all.

The current arc seems more akin to say the Garlic Jr arc something created by Toei only whereas the Universe 6 arc would be like the Z anime version if a canon arc that would add things here and there.

In the long run of the series could this current mini arc be skipped without missing out on anything? Possibly.

[sintzu]

In the long run of the series could this current mini arc be skipped without missing out on anything? Possibly.

If it's like ep15 where the plot starts and ends in it then Yeah, unless whoever copies Vegeta is connected to whoever Black Goku is.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

If you fully subscribe to the notion that the Super anime is the main product, nothing counts as "filler". What would be the technical difference between these stand alone slice of life episodes, the mini arcs or the main arcs for that classification anyway? Is it only that Toriyama was responsible for writing the main arcs, and thus "Toei content" is what counts as "filler"? Because the man just openly admitted that while he writes the summary, he allows Toei's script writers to make changes to it as they deem necessary. Are those changes going to be nitpicked as well?

[Bullza]

Are those changes going to be nitpicked as well?

No because that can't be helped. The main arcs plot is outlined by Toriyama and the character designs for the new characters (or at least the significant characters) are also done by Toriyama so it's as canonical as you're gonna get from him in this show.

The current mini arc however likely has no involvement from Toriyama whatsoever which would make it filler or non canonical or just not from Toriyama.

[JulieYBM]

Nothing about this series is 'canon'. Toriyama's notes--as written entirely by Toriyama--are the original product. This cartoon is an adaption of those notes. To think one can separate different episodes into 'canon' and 'filler' is silly and disrespects the involvement of the production staff in crafting every episode in their own manner.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Nothing about this series is 'canon'. Toriyama's notes--as written entirely by Toriyama--are the original product. This cartoon is an adaption of those notes. To think one can separate different episodes into 'canon' and 'filler' is silly and disrespects the involvement of the production staff in crafting every episode in their own manner.

Toriyama's notes are not a product at all.

[JulieYBM]

Nothing about this series is 'canon'. Toriyama's notes--as written entirely by Toriyama--are the original product. This cartoon is an adaption of those notes. To think one can separate different episodes into 'canon' and 'filler' is silly and disrespects the involvement of the production staff in crafting every episode in their own manner.

Toriyama's notes are not a product at all.

They are not [yet to be] a product sold, but the notes are a product upon which both the Dragon Ball Super animated series and comic are based.

[VegettoEX]

But Jacob, that's like saying the text messages the four Kanzenshuu guys send around to each other are just as-of-yet unpublished news updates.

No, it's not a product. It's a part of the production pipeline with a clearly defined end-goal: the TV series (and in this case, also the manga).

Even with the Freeza movie's storyboard book getting published, that doesn't change the fact that the actual intended product itself was the movie.

[JulieYBM]

But Jacob, that's like saying the text messages the four Kanzenshuu guys send around to each other are just as-of-yet unpublished news updates.

No, it's not a product. It's a part of the production pipeline with a clearly defined end-goal: the TV series (and in this case, also the manga).

Even with the Freeza movie's storyboard book getting published, that doesn't change the fact that the actual intended product itself was the movie.

I wasn't using 'product' in the same sense as 'commercial product' (although it's pretty damned likely Toriyama's notes will someday in the not-so-distant future be released in a book, because Shueisha). Toriyama created a thing, his outline, that can exist and be enjoyed by itself. His contribution to the project ends after that. That's an extremely early stage of an entire animated series. Everything else is not his work, his responsibility or his decision. What we see on the screen is ultimately reflective of Hatano, Chioka and the others, whether we're talking about Episode #16 or Episode #28. Toriyama himself even says his ideas are altered. The closest thing to being 'canon' in the same sense that the original comic was 'canon' is going to be his original outline.

To call your text messages as-of-yet-unpublished news updates would imply you are posting those text messages wholesale and unaltered. That's...probably not what y'all do. You're creating something new based upon something else, something that just so happens to not be available to the public.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

But Jacob, that's like saying the text messages the four Kanzenshuu guys send around to each other are just as-of-yet unpublished news updates.

No, it's not a product. It's a part of the production pipeline with a clearly defined end-goal: the TV series (and in this case, also the manga).

Even with the Freeza movie's storyboard book getting published, that doesn't change the fact that the actual intended product itself was the movie.

I wasn't using 'product' in the same sense as 'commercial product' (although it's pretty damned likely Toriyama's notes will someday in the not-so-distant future be released in a book, because Shueisha). Toriyama created a thing, his outline, that can exist and be enjoyed by itself. His contribution to the project ends after that. That's an extremely early stage of an entire animated series. Everything else is not his work, his responsibility or his decision. What we see on the screen is ultimately reflective of Hatano, Chioka and the others, whether we're talking about Episode #16 or Episode #28. Toriyama himself even says his ideas are altered. The closest thing to being 'canon' in the same sense that the original comic was 'canon' is going to be his original outline.

To call your text messages as-of-yet-unpublished news updates would imply you are posting those text messages wholesale and unaltered. That's...probably not what y'all do. You're creating something new based upon something else, something that just so happens to not be available to the public.

The notes are probably not a very good read on their own. And if canon can only come from toriyama exusively, is even the manga entirely canon? He had assistants drawing some stuff, and editors suggesting things that made into the final comic.

[B]

How do we even know Toriyama isn't involved with stand-alone episodes? It seems your criteria for "filler" is "doesn't advance the plot", which would normally not be incorrect(I'd use the term "padding"), but it seems we're making huge assumptions here.

[Bullza]

He might be, there just hasn't been any mention of it and it'd make sense that it wasn't.

We know Toriyama did a detailed plot outline and character designs for the Universe 6 arc and now we know he's pretty done exactly the same again for the upcoming Black Goku arc but this mini arc that's happening at the moment just seems like it's Toei's way to give Toriyama some time to write it out.

[Shi_Neko13]

Dragon Ball Super is a TV series not based on an existing manga so I'd say None of the episodes are filler. Most of the episodes that aren't about fighting still have some story elements that contribute to the overall story for the series and sectioning off episodes and trying to make everything neat doesn't really work for DBS. It was easy to figure out was was and wasn't filler in DB and DBZ because it was as simple as "Does it happen in the Manga? No? Filler." No argument. They are filling in the spots between parts of the manga. GT has no filler by definition either. Bringing up the Super Manga has no bearing on this as well, and it's been stated multiple times that it's supplementary content. There's far too many differences between the 2 to consider them the same thing anyway. The original animes were basically animated versions of the manga, right down to angles and actions being the same, they never altered anything from the original source, just "filled in" the gaps. Entire fights are different in Super's Manga compared to the anime (Magetta vs. Vegeta or Piccolo vs. Frost for example) so the manga is more of an adaptation of the same story.

I guess if someone wanted to skip the "filler", they could just watch the BoG and RoF movies, and then jump straight into the U6 saga.
The kind of filler this show has is in every episode, with the slow pace and the unnecesary explanatios. The rest are just "slice of life" episodes.

Raditz, I love how you just joined and somehow managed to get the Screen Name Raditz, like how has no one grabbed that yet?! Doesn't anyone like Raditz??? (without him there'd be no DBZ and no badass Makkankousappo death scene which is still the most badass, awesome thing they ever did.)

[Bullza]

Bringing up the Super Manga has no bearing on this as well, and it's been stated multiple times that it's supplementary content. There's far too many differences between the 2 to consider them the same thing anyway.

I'd guess that Toriyama's plot outline is given to the Toei animation crew and Toyotaro and then they both just adapt it as they see it.

With the Piccolo vs Frost fight, Toriyama's outline may have mentioned that Goku tells Piccolo he doesn't have a chance and then throughout the fight Piccolo fights on the defensive to try and cause Frost to lose his stamina but Frost cheats to win. Both the anime and manga portrayed the fight like that but the anime added in the Special Beam Cannon.

The Vegeta vs Magetta fight was pretty different but still had Vegeta struggling against Magetta in base, turning Super Saiyan, insulting Magetta and then knocking him out the ring for a win.

[Raditz]

I guess if someone wanted to skip the "filler", they could just watch the BoG and RoF movies, and then jump straight into the U6 saga.
The kind of filler this show has is in every episode, with the slow pace and the unnecesary explanatios. The rest are just "slice of life" episodes.

Raditz, I love how you just joined and somehow managed to get the Screen Name Raditz, like how has no one grabbed that yet?! Doesn't anyone like Raditz??? (without him there'd be no DBZ and no badass Makkankousappo death scene which is still the most badass, awesome thing they ever did.)

I'm surprised too, hahaha. I guess people assumed that these names were already taken, and/or that not many people like Raditz

[Jaetinh]

I don't count any episodes as filler episodes, regardless of how boring they might be.