Theory: Grade III is faster than Grade II

[miguelnuva1]

Hey everyone, now for years the popular theory has been grade III was abandoned because it made the user slower but a new thought just came to me. What if Grade III is faster than Grade II?

Theory evidence 1: Goku and Vegeta can use the form but don't.

It is stated that the reason Goku and Vegeta don't use Grade III because the big muscles make it hard to move. Now this is true but it doesn't mean the form is slow. A saiyan would use Grade III the way Trunks did because an opponent is too strong for Grade II but if the problem isn't the form but the opponent? Goku I believe uses the term it is hard to move, fight and catch the opponent not that he is too slow. I explain more here.

Theory evidence 2: Opponet's speed vs powering up

This problem is shown even when Vegeta uses the first grade form. The grade forms increase power but not the same way the increase speed. Example.

Vegeta
Power: 1
Speed: 1

SSJ
power: 50
Speed: 50

Grade II
Power: 75
Speed: 65

Grade III theory
Power: 97.5
Speed: 68

This would make the form faster than Grade II but while Grade III has the power to match a foe, the speed doesn't increase enough to make a difference like this.

Trunks Grade III vs Cell
Power: 97.5 Power: 95
Speed: 68 Speed: 95

This is why MSSJ is a better state as it keeps the original Speed and power advantage with the least stamina drain, also while Trunks got faster then his Grade II form it was no match for the superior speed of Cell who had Speed and power.

Final theory evidence: Trunks despite begin inexperienced admitted that something was wrong with his power up when he couldn't catch Cell. He however did not notice himself to be slower than he was with Grade II. Trunks might not be the smartest fighter but even he should have noticed if he form made him slower than a previous form right? I believe Trunks got faster than his Grade II form but as I mentioned before it didn't increase his speed that much over his Grade II form.

Finally the form is not as slow as it seems it's just the saiyan is trying to increase his power so high to match his opponent the speed is what's lacking. Combined with the high Stamina drain that is why Grade III is so useless.

I believe that if Trunks used Grade III on Semi perfect Cell for example the stamina would have been the only problem in the fight. The Speed would have still been faster than a far weaker opponent and might have been enough to out Speed Grade II Vegeta or at least keep up with him.

Let me know what you think everyone. Thanks.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

What exactly implies that Grade 2 didn't balance out power and speed?

[dbgtFO]

I agree, furthermore when Cell does the same thing against Gohan, Trunks remarks that Cell's speed can't keep up, not that his speed has now dropped lower than before.

What exactly implies that Grade 2 didn't balance out power and speed?

Goku says regular Super Saiyan is best balance wise, so Grade 2 couldn't have been balanced, whatever that entails. Also it makes sense given the notion "bigger muscles = slower speed."

[miguelnuva1]

What exactly implies that Grade 2 didn't balance out power and speed?

Goku says the regular super saiyan form is the best balance wise.

Grade II increases speed and power but doesn't increase speed as much as power and his a higer stamina consumption.

Grade III in my theory only increases the speed a tiny bit with the power and stamina consumption going way up.

[apex_pretador]

because the big muscles make it hard to move

exactly,and it makes the form worthless.
The bulkiness effectively (not technically) KILLS speed due to the fact that they can't move due to hindrance.

I think that a perfectly mastered version of the grade 3 form will be like a LSS (a.k.a. Broly) - no hindrance from movement, muscle distribution is uniform etc.

However, it will still be less superior to SS2

[MajinBrolyYamcha]

No Grade III is slower then Grade II. The only version of Grade III, if you can called a version of Grade III is broly's Lssj form.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

People still think "Mastered/Full Power Super Saiyan" is a transformation? It isn't. Goku simply just enhanced the SSJ form and made it feel normal like base form, and Goku/Gohan are just faster and more powerful than the other Saiyans in the same exact forms due to how they trained. Goku and Gohan could also lower their power levels without losing the state, and in the cell games they go full power from being suppressed.

If this were a different form, it would bring SSJ to a different multiplier and SSJ2 wouldn't be 100x.

[Saturnine]

I made a thread a while ago where the discussion went on for longer (EDIT: actually it didn't, haha), check it out:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =8&t=33641

I agree with the OP. I think we never received enough information to unanimously judge that Grade III is actually slower than Grade II, because:
- Vegeta was also slower than Cell, obviously
- When your powerlevel rises, so does your speed

The huge weight and clumsy muscles do impair the ability to move around quickly, but this debuff should be applied to the current ki level, not the ki level prior to the transformation (for those who say grade 3 is inferior in speed to regular super saiyan).

SSj - Power: 10 Speed: 10
Grade 2 - Power: 20 Speed: 18
Grade 3 - Power: 40 Speed: ~18?

Also why I think FPSSj is a solution to this problem is because the body being used to the form makes the previously forced power-up not forced anymore, hence a FPSSj can power up to power 40 while enjoying a proportional speed of 40 as well, with no energy drain - in much the same fashion as Freeza no longer needing to go buff when powering up to 100% after his training. Of course many people opt to go with the interpretation that FPSSj doesn't change the multiplier, but makes the base power grow faster with training to compensate - to each their own, I believe both these interpretations hold merit, though of course I stick with mine because it's tidier IMO