Is Super just filler??

[PsionicWarrior]

^ you do realize that if EOZ is kept canon then that would allow GT be canon as well since GT is pretty much directly based on EOZ events.

In no case GT can be considered canon, what does not come from original author is fan-fiction, regardless of the quality.

[Cipher]

^ you do realize that if EOZ is kept canon then that would allow GT be canon as well since GT is pretty much directly based on EOZ events.

There's a hell of a lot going on in GT that no longer meshes with the post-2013 content.

-No mention of the god forms
-Pilaf, Shuu and Mai remaining their original ages and having no further familiarity with the main cast
-Anime-only interpretation of Hell
-Freeza's strength
-Kibito and Kaioshin remaining fused

[MaGyunia]

^ you do realize that if EOZ is kept canon then that would allow GT be canon as well since GT is pretty much directly based on EOZ events.

In no case GT can be considered canon, what does not come from original author is fan-fiction, regardless of the quality.

To me GT isn't canon - and thank god the recent movies and DBSuper finally put an end to that discussion, for obvious reasons -, but I don't agree with your way of defining a particular event as canon or non-canon. To me, and I'm not the only one who thinks this way, canon is any event that does not contradict the series' main timeline. According to that theory, events like Movie 9 would be canon.

Besides, regardless of how bad GT was - and it was - calling it "fan-fiction" is a little far-fetched, to say the least. There's a difference between fan-fiction and an anime series made by professionals, regardless of its (lack of) quality.

Wouldn't you have the same problem with EOZ?

Not to the same degree. I've said multiple times I have a lot of issues with the last three episodes of DBZ, but regardless of how much I dislike it for the reasons I've mentioned before numerous times, there's really nothing there that makes the events of DBSuper impossible. There's nothing there that contradicts Super Saiya-jin God, Super Saiya-jin Blue, Beerus, Whis, the 6th Universe, Zen-ou-sama's appearance and future tournament or Black.

[TheMikado]

Wow so given the recent discrepancies between the Super manga/movies and the Super anime, is the anime considered canon? Because the Super anime is a total mess interns of internal inconsistency but the movies and manga appear to be much more consistent and closer to Toriyamas works.

[sintzu]

is the anime considered canon ? the movies and manga appear to be much more consistent and closer to Toriyamas works.

If Goku never uses the Kaioken again and if Vegeta doesn't try to find a way to surpass it then we'll know it was a one time thing by Toei which will mean the manga is closer to Toriyama's scripts.

[TheMikado]

is the anime considered canon ? the movies and manga appear to be much more consistent and closer to Toriyamas works.

If Goku never uses the Kaioken again and if Vegeta doesn't try to find a way to surpass it then we'll know it was a one time thing by Toei which will mean the manga is closer to Toriyama's scripts.

So then this forum is officially giving preference to the manga now? If I recall the terms correctly preference is given to original Japanese manga over anime.

[sintzu]

So then this forum is officially giving preference to the manga now ?

If I recall the terms correctly preference is given to original Japanese manga over anime.

Not really cause we don't know what's going on but it seems likely that the manga is closer cause it makes more sense in terms of power levels while the anime is making new plot holes left and right.

That's when an anime is based off the manga, with Super both are based off of Toriyama's scripts.

[Cetra]

^ you do realize that if EOZ is kept canon then that would allow GT be canon as well since GT is pretty much directly based on EOZ events.

In no case GT can be considered canon, what does not come from original author is fan-fiction, regardless of the quality.

Except that is not how it works.

[dbzfan7]

Find it funny that by people's definition, that means the Toriyama movies aren't canon. Super follows Super and change the events of the movies, so that means the Toei product over rides the Toriyama one, and that's hilarious. So much for Toriyama is canon.

[Cetra]

Find it funny that by people's definition, that means the Toriyama movies aren't canon. Super follows Super and change the events of the movies, so that means the Toei product over rides the Toriyama one, and that's hilarious. So much for Toriyama is canon.

I think it is hilarious that by people's definition what they do not like is non-canonical, what is illogical - in a fictional story - is non-canonical and if it is not done by the author it is non-canonical. After all these years we should just stop that. If the franchise wants it, it wants it.

[Bullza]

To me Toriyama's plot outline is canon and there's just two different interpretations of it. The Universe 6 arc and the Future Trunks arc would be canon.

The Copy Water arc would not be in Toriyama's plot outline d that's just a little filler arc made to give Toriyama time to write out the next arc.

[TheMikado]

Find it funny that by people's definition, that means the Toriyama movies aren't canon. Super follows Super and change the events of the movies, so that means the Toei product over rides the Toriyama one, and that's hilarious. So much for Toriyama is canon.

I think it is hilarious that by people's definition what they do not like is non-canonical, what is illogical - in a fictional story - is non-canonical and if it is not done by the author it is non-canonical. After all these years we should just stop that. If the franchise wants it, it wants it.

This pretty much, but now we have parts of Super being called filler and non canon when it's supposedly the original work. The copy Vegeta thing is super weird because we have people saying its canon and people saying its not. If it appears in the manga then what? Is it filler in the manga too?

[MaGyunia]

The whole debate over how to define canon? Seriously? After we all just put out our own ideas on the matter in more than one thread? It's like what happened in episode 48's thread a few pages before the one it's currently reached, no one would stop discussing how Gohan has become an irrelevant character in DBSuper, although I admit I personally contributed to that one.

[Grimlock]

The copy Vegeta thing is super weird because we have people saying its canon and people saying its not. If it appears in the manga then what? Is it filler in the manga too?

The people who are saying it's filler is right. Toriyama said after the Gods Tournament, Future Trunks comes right after it. The last panel in Toyotaro's manga says something about Future Trunks so I don't think Toyotaro will adapt it since that mini-saga didn't contribute at all and it is pointless.

[TheMikado]

The whole debate over how to define canon? Seriously? After we all just put out our own ideas on the matter in more than one thread? It's like what happened in episode 48's thread a few pages before the one it's currently reached, no one would stop discussing how Gohan has become an irrelevant character in DBSuper, although I admit I personally contributed to that one.

The problem is people are quick to find a reason to invalidate something they don't like. "That's filler, that's not canon, that's not in Toriyamas idea, etc. and because this forum gives preference and weight to specific versions people are quick to validate theirs and invalidate other. The mere fact that there are preferences versions of these works creates this whole argument to be gone with. Of course everyone is going to work to prove the thing that they like personally is legitimate in the community.

[MaGyunia]

When there's no apparent way to solve an issue regarding consistency or having something make sense in one definitive way, we always reach a point where it's just pointless to keep discussing it and have everyone believe what they want to believe. Everyone expressed their own opinions and views, in this particular case there's no absolute final, definitive, conclusive definition of "canon". We can only express our own views and interpretations of what it is, everyone has done so, so please move on.

A f***** fantastic episode (parts of it, discussed in the proper thread) which is the beginning of an exciting new arc featuring a serious villain about whom we know virtually nothing just aired hours ago and here we are discussing canonness.

[ryou766]

^ you do realize that if EOZ is kept canon then that would allow GT be canon as well since GT is pretty much directly based on EOZ events.

There's a hell of a lot going on in GT that no longer meshes with the post-2013 content.

-No mention of the god forms
-Pilaf, Shuu and Mai remaining their original ages and having no further familiarity with the main cast
-Anime-only interpretation of Hell
-Freeza's strength
-Kibito and Kaioshin remaining fused

XV actually had GT Goku have an interaction with Beerus. I found that to be a bit funny.

[dbzfan7]

When there's no apparent way to solve an issue regarding consistency or having something make sense in one definitive way, we always reach a point where it's just pointless to keep discussing it and have everyone believe what they want to believe. Everyone expressed their own opinions and views, in this particular case there's no absolute final, definitive, conclusive definition of "canon". We can only express our own views and interpretations of what it is, everyone has done so, so please move on.

Good luck with that. Have you seen this forum? People can't help themselves to shoving their idea of canon down other peoples throats, as if it's their religion. Praise my canon, or you're wrong is essentially the motto.

[TheMikado]

When there's no apparent way to solve an issue regarding consistency or having something make sense in one definitive way, we always reach a point where it's just pointless to keep discussing it and have everyone believe what they want to believe. Everyone expressed their own opinions and views, in this particular case there's no absolute final, definitive, conclusive definition of "canon". We can only express our own views and interpretations of what it is, everyone has done so, so please move on.

A f***** fantastic episode (parts of it, discussed in the proper thread) which is the beginning of an exciting new arc featuring a serious villain about whom we know virtually nothing just aired hours ago and here we are discussing canonness.

Well a consequence of all this is that we have no idea what form is appropriate in what situation. For instance if the world/universe is on the verge of total destruction and Goku decides to not risk SSBxKkx10 everyone is going to go WTF? Conversely if Goku isn't going SSB because of the power drain others will go WTF because their understanding of the characters powers and capabilities is completely different and in a shonen series that can completely destroy the entire narrative. A character who holds back and let's the world be destroyed isn't a hero..

[DreamedArtist]

Dragon Ball Super Kai with all filler cut out, total episodes 13 maybe? LOL. I just watched the movies to get where I wanted and watched the rest after that on episodes. but this show has way too much filler/ nothing going on but eh what can you do