"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Chiki]

And to humor Chiki, if Goku was evil the Devilmite Beam would have exploded his heart.

Goku is only evil from our perspective. As a demi-god he is actually not objectively evil at all. He does what he thinks is right, just like Black. When Black said "I will destroy mankind for the sake of justice" he is doing it because he thinks it's the right thing to do.

Nope, the Devilmite Beam doesn't work that way. It is said to take any evil in the person's heart and make them explode. And Black's ki is called evil by Whis, the same person who takes care of Beerus, so it doesn't matter that he's fight for justice. He's still evil. Beerus even called Black a cold heart.

You didn't understand my argument. Black's ki is SUBJECTIVELY evil from Beerus and Whis's perspective, but not OBJECTIVELY evil.

Black is objectively righteous and good, he just seems evil to us.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

If all of the Gods of Destruction are cats, I will SCREAM mentally. Hopefully we'll get at least one female regardless.

I agree. l I want a GODDESS of destruction. Give me more creative people then vados and champa. Dragonball needs more female fighters. Vados doesn't even fight and neither does 18 so they don't count. I can see a lot of disapointments in the Omniversal tournament. I mean they only had to add 5 new ones and they had a FARTING robot. IDK how they're gonna do like 50 new fighters and do It right. I'm keeping low expectations...

[HeroR]

You didn't understand my argument. Black's ki is SUBJECTIVELY evil from Beerus and Whis's perspective, but not OBJECTIVELY evil.

Black is objectively righteous and good, he just seems evil to us.

Whis and Beerus outright said that Black's ki is evil. There is no subjection about it. Beerus who destroy planets over pudding doesn't have a ki classified as evil. Neither does Champa who was ready to murder his entire team for losing a tournament. So Black being self-righteous doesn't change the fact that he's evil.

[
I agree. l I want a GODDESS of destruction. Give me more creative people then vados and champa. Dragonball needs more female fighters. Vados doesn't even fight and neither does 18 so they don't count. I can see a lot of disapointments in the Omniversal tournament. I mean they only had to add 5 new ones and they had a FARTING robot. IDK how they're gonna do like 50 new fighters and do It right. I'm keeping low expectations...

From what I have seen, people liked the U6 fighters and Magetta is a favorite because he has a unique fighting style. He only farted once in his entire match with Vegeta and Magetta isn't a robot, he's a Metal Man.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

You didn't understand my argument. Black's ki is SUBJECTIVELY evil from Beerus and Whis's perspective, but not OBJECTIVELY evil.

Black is objectively righteous and good, he just seems evil to us.

Whis and Beerus outright said that Black's ki is evil. There is no subjection about it. Beerus who destroy planets over pudding doesn't have a ki classified as evil. Neither does Champa who was ready to murder his entire team for losing a tournament. So Black being self-righteous doesn't change the fact that he's evil.

[
I agree. l I want a GODDESS of destruction. Give me more creative people then vados and champa. Dragonball needs more female fighters. Vados doesn't even fight and neither does 18 so they don't count. I can see a lot of disapointments in the Omniversal tournament. I mean they only had to add 5 new ones and they had a FARTING robot. IDK how they're gonna do like 50 new fighters and do It right. I'm keeping low expectations...

From what I have seen, people liked the U6 fighters and Magetta is a favorite because he has a unique fighting style. He only farted once in his entire match with Vegeta and Magetta isn't a robot, he's a Metal Man.

he's as much of a robot to me as 8er is. He shouldn't have farted. That's my stance. I didn't like him, or vegeta struggling to lift him, or anything about the tournament at all. From what I've seen people hated it. The only thing I rarely see people semi like is hit.

For me none of the fighters were good

anime winie the pooh I didn't like. Cant even remember his name

cabba was just tarble with ssj powers

frost would have been neat if he was this sportsman he was played out to be. Disproves stereotyping as well as being charming...then they just made him ANOTHER evil member of frieza's race.....how creative?

Magetta was just a farting robot who hates insults. I cant say anything good about him

and hit.....he just seams so bland. he's like a watered down pikkon. Pikkon 3.0, now with cheaper animation and borderline no personality!

Speaking of him I know GT ignored him, but super PLEASE add in Pikkon!

[Chiki]

Whis and Beerus outright said that Black's ki is evil. There is no subjection about it. Beerus who destroy planets over pudding doesn't have a ki classified as evil. Neither does Champa who was ready to murder his entire team for losing a tournament. So Black being self-righteous doesn't change the fact that he's evil.

Do you know what "subjective" means? It means it's a matter of opinion. The fact that they even said it means it's a matter of THEIR opinion. The fact that you can say something like "subjection" (that's not the right noun, the right noun is "subjectivity") shows you aren't familiar with the concepts of objectivity and subjectivity.

The only thing you can question is whether or not it's JUST a matter of their opinion.

But there's a difference between something being ACTUALLY wrong and a matter of Beerus and Whis's opinion that it is wrong.

[HeroR]

You didn't understand my argument. Black's ki is SUBJECTIVELY evil from Beerus and Whis's perspective, but not OBJECTIVELY evil.

Black is objectively righteous and good, he just seems evil to us.

Whis and Beerus outright said that Black's ki is evil. There is no subjection about it. Beerus who destroy planets over pudding doesn't have a ki classified as evil. Neither does Champa who was ready to murder his entire team for losing a tournament. So Black being self-righteous doesn't change the fact that he's evil.

[
I agree. l I want a GODDESS of destruction. Give me more creative people then vados and champa. Dragonball needs more female fighters. Vados doesn't even fight and neither does 18 so they don't count. I can see a lot of disapointments in the Omniversal tournament. I mean they only had to add 5 new ones and they had a FARTING robot. IDK how they're gonna do like 50 new fighters and do It right. I'm keeping low expectations...

From what I have seen, people liked the U6 fighters and Magetta is a favorite because he has a unique fighting style. He only farted once in his entire match with Vegeta and Magetta isn't a robot, he's a Metal Man.

he's as much of a robot to me as 8er is. He shouldn't have farted. That's my stance. I didn't like him, or vegeta struggling to lift him, or anything about the tournament at all. From what I've seen people hated it. The only thing I rarely see people semi like is hit.

For me none of the fighters were good

anime winie the pooh I didn't like. Cant even remember his name

cabba was just tarble with ssj powers

frost would have been neat if he was this sportsman he was played out to be. Disproves stereotyping as well as being charming...then they just made him ANOTHER evil member of frieza's race.....how creative?

Magetta was just a farting robot who hates insults. I cant say anything good about him

and hit.....he just seams so bland. he's like a watered down pikkon. Pikkon 3.0, now with cheaper animation and borderline no personality!

Speaking of him I know GT ignored him, but super PLEASE add in Pikkon!

You have the right to your opinion, but you are the minority on this. The general census is that the U6 tournament was good to very good, and the U6 fighters were good, which is why people want them in Xenoverse 2. Hit is the favorite to be sure, along with Cabba and Magetta. Frost is a mixed bag and Botoma is seen as a waste of an interesting character. And Hit has far more personality than Pikkon who was literally made as a Piccolo clone. Also, Hit and Pikkon literally have nothing in comment outside of their faces looking similar, which is common since Dragon Ball uses a lot of recycle faces.

Also, Android 8, who I assume you mean by 8er, is a cyborg, not a robot. He was brought back life as a cyborg.

Do you know what "subjective" means? It means it's a matter of opinion. The fact that they even said it means it's a matter of THEIR opinion. The fact that you can say something like "subjection" (that's not the right noun, the right noun is "subjectivity") shows you aren't familiar with the concepts of objectivity and subjectivity.

The only thing you can question is whether or not it's JUST a matter of their opinion.

But there's a difference between something being ACTUALLY wrong and a matter of Beerus and Whis's opinion that it is wrong.

Yes, I know what subjective mean, and even if I didn't I can Google it. So I don't need you to tell me what is subject or objective. Which is a problem with you as a poster. When people disagree with you, you think the person you're talking to is dumb, or don't understand language.

It isn't an opinion that Black is evil. His very ki is evil, which is why they ruled out Zamasu as Black, despite Zamasu haven't some dark thoughts like wiping out a planet of mortals. Beerus who can be called subjectively evil doesn't have a ki that is evil. And Whis who deals with a childish and petty god who has no problem when Beerus nukes a planet over pudding called Black evil and cold hearted. Meaning that even from a higher 'godly' perspective, Black is considered evil.

Never in the history of Dragon Ball has there been, subjectively evil ki. When a ki is evil, the person behind the ki is also evil.

[Grimlock]

The two scans that show Pilaf asking Shenlong to make them younger has been leaked. Will somebody translate them? Are those pages canon/should be taken seriously or they are just a gag moment with no intention at all?

[Pannaliciour]

Great thinking but you forget the fact that Goku could stand on the cloud (Nimbus). Only pure hearted people could do that.

Pure evil or pure good? It's never specified. Goku can ride the Nimbus because he is pure evil.

Oh yeah, Goku also tried to let Golden Frieza get away in RoF, knowing that if he mastered the endurance issue of his Golden form Frieza would have wrecked both him and Vegeta.

Goku's apparent irresponsibility and recklessness can only be explained by the fact that he is secretly evil.

Hahaha thats why he went to heaven and not hell when he died?

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Whis and Beerus outright said that Black's ki is evil. There is no subjection about it. Beerus who destroy planets over pudding doesn't have a ki classified as evil. Neither does Champa who was ready to murder his entire team for losing a tournament. So Black being self-righteous doesn't change the fact that he's evil.



From what I have seen, people liked the U6 fighters and Magetta is a favorite because he has a unique fighting style. He only farted once in his entire match with Vegeta and Magetta isn't a robot, he's a Metal Man.

he's as much of a robot to me as 8er is. He shouldn't have farted. That's my stance. I didn't like him, or vegeta struggling to lift him, or anything about the tournament at all. From what I've seen people hated it. The only thing I rarely see people semi like is hit.

For me none of the fighters were good

anime winie the pooh I didn't like. Cant even remember his name

cabba was just tarble with ssj powers

frost would have been neat if he was this sportsman he was played out to be. Disproves stereotyping as well as being charming...then they just made him ANOTHER evil member of frieza's race.....how creative?

Magetta was just a farting robot who hates insults. I cant say anything good about him

and hit.....he just seams so bland. he's like a watered down pikkon. Pikkon 3.0, now with cheaper animation and borderline no personality!

Speaking of him I know GT ignored him, but super PLEASE add in Pikkon!

You have the right to your opinion, but you are the minority on this. The general census is that the U6 tournament was good to very good, and the U6 fighters were good, which is why people want them in Xenoverse 2. Hit is the favorite to be sure, along with Cabba and Magetta. Frost is a mixed bag and Botoma is seen as a waste of an interesting character. And Hit has far more personality than Pikkon who was literally made as a Piccolo clone. Also, Hit and Pikkon literally have nothing in comment outside of their faces looking similar, which is common since Dragon Ball uses a lot of recycle faces.

Also, Android 8, who I assume you mean by 8er, is a cyborg, not a robot. He was brought back life as a cyborg.

Do you know what "subjective" means? It means it's a matter of opinion. The fact that they even said it means it's a matter of THEIR opinion. The fact that you can say something like "subjection" (that's not the right noun, the right noun is "subjectivity") shows you aren't familiar with the concepts of objectivity and subjectivity.

The only thing you can question is whether or not it's JUST a matter of their opinion.

But there's a difference between something being ACTUALLY wrong and a matter of Beerus and Whis's opinion that it is wrong.

Yes, I know what subjective mean, and even if I didn't I can Google it. So I don't need you to tell me what is subject or objective. Which is a problem with you as a poster. When people disagree with you, you think the person you're talking to is dumb, or don't understand language.

It isn't an opinion that Black is evil. His very ki is evil, which is why they ruled out Zamasu as Black, despite Zamasu haven't some dark thoughts like wiping out a planet of mortals. Beerus who can be called subjectively evil doesn't have a ki that is evil. And Whis who deals with a childish and petty god who has no problem when Beerus nukes a planet over pudding called Black evil and cold hearted. Meaning that even from a higher 'godly' perspective, Black is considered evil.

Never in the history of Dragon Ball has there been, subjectively evil ki. When a ki is evil, the person behind the ki is also evil.

8'er wasn't like 18 and 17 he was completely robotic like 16.

Hit's a stern serious character goku has to fight at the end of a tournament out in space, and he cares about winning the right way more then winning and has fun doing what he does. he's almost equal with goku, goku does a kaioken against him in a ssj form, who' stronger is ambiguous, there's no clear winner, and he's the strongest from where he comes from, and he's very very old.....NONE of that sounds like pikkon? Literally all of that applies to Pikkon. He eeven has a similar face and height and body build.

The only thing pikkon and piccolo really have in common is they're green and have weighted clothes. By that logic nappa is a raditz clone.

I'm glad you could enjoy the arc, wish I could. I think this arc is much better so far. like 50x better IMO. but Hit is way to similar to Pikkon, even more of a copy then Nouva Shenron was!

[Chiki]

Which is a problem with you as a poster. When people disagree with you, you think the person you're talking to is dumb, or don't understand language.

It isn't an opinion that Black is evil. His very ki is evil, which is why they ruled out Zamasu as Black, despite Zamasu haven't some dark thoughts like wiping out a planet of mortals. Beerus who can be called subjectively evil doesn't have a ki that is evil. And Whis who deals with a childish and petty god who has no problem when Beerus nukes a planet over pudding called Black evil and cold hearted. Meaning that even from a higher 'godly' perspective, Black is considered evil.

Never in the history of Dragon Ball has there been, subjectively evil ki. When a ki is evil, the person behind the ki is also evil.

You should know I'm not trying to offend you; it isn't offensive to be told about a concept you're not aware of.

Bolded part: the problem here is that you have no proof that Black's ki is objectively evil. For something to be objectively evil, you'd need something like an abstract object saying that ki that is a so-and-so way is evil. Whis and Beerus saying it only confirms that it is a matter of their opinion that Black's ki is evil; it says nothing whatsoever about what is objectively the case.

Bolded part 2: ? How do you know that? It's literally impossible for you to know, since, whenever a character says that someone's ki is evil, it's only a matter of their opinion that their ki is evil. You don't have objective evidence that their ki is evil since the only evidence you have is people stating that their ki is evil, and then them killing people which is evil according to you. You don't have an abstract object that says their ki or actions are evil, which is what you need for something to be ACTUALLY evil.

For all we know, in the DBZ universe, it is objectively right to massacre millions of humans. I hope you guys can realize that I'm joking about this statement.

[HeroR]

8'er wasn't like 18 and 17 he was completely robotic like 16.

Hit's a stern serious character goku has to fight at the end of a tournament out in space, and he cares about winning the right way more then winning and has fun doing what he does. he's almost equal with goku, goku does a kaioken against him in a ssj form, who' stronger is ambiguous, there's no clear winner, and he's the strongest from where he comes from, and he's very very old.....NONE of that sounds like pikkon? Literally all of that applies to Pikkon. He eeven has a similar face and height and body build.

The only thing pikkon and piccolo really have in common is they're green and have weighted clothes. By that logic nappa is a raditz clone.

I'm glad you could enjoy the arc, wish I could. I think this arc is much better so far. like 50x better IMO. but Hit is way to similar to Pikkon, even more of a copy then Nouva Shenron was!

Android 8 was confirmed to be a person who was brought back to life as an android. He wasn't completely robotic like 16.

Hit is a 1000 years old assassin who so powerful that he never needed to improve until he met Goku. Upon fighting Goku and realizing his limits, he chose to improve himself, and as a thank you to Goku he allowed Goku to use his ultimate move and refused to play keep away like Champa suggested. He was also held back from using his best techniques because there was no killing, so Goku tried to have the rules removed. When that failed, Goku forfeited himself because he couldn't fight Hit at his best, and neither of them liked being called pawns of the gods. As another thank you, Hit lost to Monaka.

Hit has more in common with Freeza than Pikkon in that they were both extremely talented warriors who were born the best, never needed to train, until they met Goku. Whereas Freeza became bitter and resentful, Hit was gracious and was happy to finally find a worthy opponent.

Goku beat Pikkon in their match, there is no ambiguous about it. The only reason the match was thrown out was because the Grand Kai didn't want to train Goku because he was out of shape, so he pulled a loophole abuse. The Kaioken was also only used for several seconds and wasn't even a major factor in the fight. There is also no ambiguous about how is stronger between Goku and Pikkon. Pikkon was straight up stronger than Goku, and Goku only won because Pikkon's ultimate attack has too long of a prep time and Goku can teleport. We also have no clue how old Pikkon is and it doesn't really matter because he's dead. We get no background on Pikkon other than he's the best fighter from the Earth Quadrant and he experience no personal growth from fighting Goku.

When Pikkon was being drawn, the notes literally said, 'he's like Piccolo, give him this expression'. So he is literally a Piccolo expy and he even took Piccolo's personality. The simulates between Hit and Pikkon is extremely thin.

[HeroR]

Which is a problem with you as a poster. When people disagree with you, you think the person you're talking to is dumb, or don't understand language.

It isn't an opinion that Black is evil. His very ki is evil, which is why they ruled out Zamasu as Black, despite Zamasu haven't some dark thoughts like wiping out a planet of mortals. Beerus who can be called subjectively evil doesn't have a ki that is evil. And Whis who deals with a childish and petty god who has no problem when Beerus nukes a planet over pudding called Black evil and cold hearted. Meaning that even from a higher 'godly' perspective, Black is considered evil.

Never in the history of Dragon Ball has there been, subjectively evil ki. When a ki is evil, the person behind the ki is also evil.

You should know I'm not trying to offend you; it isn't offensive to be told about a concept you're not aware of.

Bolded part: the problem here is that you have no proof that Black's ki is objectively evil. For something to be objectively evil, you'd need something like an abstract object saying that ki that is a so-and-so way is evil. Whis and Beerus saying it only confirms that it is a matter of their opinion that Black's ki is evil; it says nothing whatsoever about what is objectively the case.

Bolded part 2: ? How do you know that? It's literally impossible for you to know, since, whenever a character says that someone's ki is evil, it's only a matter of their opinion that their ki is evil. You don't have objective evidence that their ki is evil since the only evidence you have is people stating that their ki is evil, and then them killing people which is evil according to you. You don't have an abstract object that says their ki or actions are evil, which is what you need for something to be ACTUALLY evil.

For all we know, in the DBZ universe, it is objectively right to massacre millions of humans. I hope you guys can realize that I'm joking about this statement.

It's a very smug thing to think that I don't know what subjective and objective is.

Black is objectively evil because his ki, his very life force, is evil. And the burden of proof that Black is subjectively evil is on you because you came up with the theory, and there are statements in the show that Black is evil by two godly characters.

And I know you're joking, but the problem is that you're going with the flawed idea that it is on the person to disprove a theory, when it is on the person who makes the theory to prove it to be true. In other words, it is on you to prove that Whis and Beerus' statement are subjective.

[Matthanor]

The two scans that show Pilaf asking Shenlong to make them younger has been leaked. Will somebody translate them? Are those pages canon/should be taken seriously or they are just a gag moment with no intention at all?

Hey ! do you have a link ? thx !

[Chiki]

t's a very smug thing to think that I don't know what subjective and objective is.

Black is objectively evil because his ki, his very life force, is evil. And the burden of proof that Black is subjectively evil is on you because you came up with the theory, and there are statements in the show that Black is evil by two godly characters.

And I know you're joking, but the problem is that you're going with the flawed idea that it is on the person to disprove a theory, when it is on the person who makes the theory to prove it to be true. In other words, it is on you to prove that Whis and Beerus' statement are subjective.

No it's not, analytic philosophy tends to be poorly taught in schools and I blame that more than I blame anyone in particular.

It's incredibly easy to prove that Whis's and Beerus's statements were subjective, in fact I've already done it. It's also a matter of opinion that my username is Chiki, though it's not JUST a matter of opinion (since it is also objectively true). Since subjectivity = matter of opinion, and both Whis and Beerus said Black's ki was evil, and they weren't lying, I've already proven that Whis and Beerus think Black's ki is evil, so there is already a subjective aspect to it.

Proving objective truth takes something else entirely. You need a mathematical proof, or an abstract object (mathematics is considered to be objective because of abstract objects) which says that a certain kind of ki is evil. Since we don't have that, we can't say for certain whether or not Beerus or Whis's statements were also objectively true.

[Dbzfan94]

People seriously like a twist that Goku was evil the whole time? Really?

[Nicolas Nx]

here !, someone can translate?

<copyrighted material removed by moderator>

[Ajay]

here !, someone can translate?

<copyrighted material removed by moderator>

You can request translations of small portions (see: not entire chapters) in the relevant thread, but posting the entirety of a chapter, even one as short as that, is not okay.

Please review the forum rules before making further posts. You may also wish to know that what you posted was in Chinese, so you may not have much luck, anyway.

[Nicolas Nx]

here !, someone can translate?

<copyrighted material removed by moderator>

You can request translations of small portions (see: not entire chapters) in the relevant thread, but posting the entirety of a chapter, even one as short as that, is not okay.

Please review the forum rules before making further posts. You may also wish to know that what you posted was in Chinese, so you may not have much luck, anyway.

I have seen very many scans in this way in the forum, it seems ridiculous to me now mentions

[JustSomeFella]

I really don't like that chapter portraying the events of Trunks' future in such a light-hearded and comical way. Feels very misguided.

[Chelentano]

I really don't like that chapter portraying the events of Trunks' future in such a light-hearded and comical way. Feels very misguided.

It really isn't all that comical. There is just a few babies there, but it isn't comical at all.