Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

They don't HAVE to, but can you imagine the confusion if nail fused Piccolo was stronger than SSJ Goku in the anime but weak then him in the manga? It seems silly to even suggest that, but we are actually living though the situation right now.

[TheMikado]

Wait, did the two-base theory just get a big boost of evidence? Seems everyone is subscribing to it now.

No it seems now as though in the manga Goku really didn't absorb the power of SSJG after all so his Base and Super Saiyan forms are the same as they always were and he can still also transform into SSJG at will.

In the anime, like in the movie, Goku did absorb the power of SSJG which is why he doesn't transform into SSJG and his Base and Super Saiyan forms are more powerful than before.

So in the manga Base Goku should be weaker than Namek Frieza and in the anime Base Goku is stronger than Resurrected Frieza. It's just one base in each version but they just greatly differ between versions.

Which also means that Trunks, Cabba, Magetta, Frost, Hit and probably Beerus and the others are at a drastically lower level of power when compared to the anime.

This is correct, I keep saying it but the only reason it gained that name "two base" is because people believed both bases existed simultaneously and could be readily switched between the two. The point of theory is not that they have two base forms but that Goku can turn the absorbed God power on and off at will.

[Hugo Boss]

They don't HAVE to, but can you imagine the confusion if nail fused Piccolo was stronger than SSJ Goku in the anime but weak then him in the manga? It seems silly to even suggest that, but we are actually living though the situation right now.

Well, given the number of threads about the Boo Arc's powerscale and so on, it's not like those silly situations haven't happened before.

I keep saying it but the only reason it gained that name "two base" is because people believed both bases existed simultaneously and could be readily switched between the two. The point of theory is not that they have two base forms but that Goku can turn the absorbed God power on and off at will.

This version of the theory makes sense for me.

[HeroR]

I don't think Super Saiyan God is Goku's second base.

Then you're mistaken. Even if you don't think so, you can still subscribe to the two base theory, since the two base theory I attempted to use for the anime has the EXACT SAME power levels as I predicted in the manga, apart from Trunks. That can't just be a coincidence. The predictions of my two base theory were all true apart from Trunks which I never even denied the possibility of.

No, I'm done here. I'm suspecting I lack what it takes to understand your definition of "base". I think Super Saiyan God is just one more of Goku's transformations, that's what I chose to go by. You have the right to disagree.

The reason the theory exists is because applying two bases is the only way to make the manga and anime "sync" up. [...] Basically it makes everything across all media be able to somewhat sync.

Fine, but do the manga, the anime or some other media need to sync up? Why not accept the events can be told in their own way? Anime and manga have already contradict themselves in the past.

That is how I feel. I don't see the need to make the manga and anime sync when it comes to power scaling, or any events where they differ. I am willing to accept that the manga decided to make Super Saiyan God just a normal Super Saiyan transformation, while the anime went with Super Saiyan God becoming Goku's new base, especially since Super Saiyan God never returned in the anime.

[ssbgoku]

In the anime it has been shown several times that Goku's base and Super Saiyan forms are on par with Super Saiyan God.

First, Goku was able to fight Beerus first as a Super Saiyan and then in his base form after losing Super Saiyan God. This is after Beerus two-shotted Super Saiyan 3 Goku and dismissed Ultimate Gohan.

Second, Freeza in his weakest form killed Piccolo with one Death Beam and put holes through Super Saiyan Gohan whose power is almost on par with Ultimate Gohan. Goku comes and is able to fight Freeza in his final form.

Third, Goku is able to fight Beerus when he's in his Monaka outfit. Although Beerus was held back, both Goku and Beerus put some much forced into their spar that Whis had to stop the fight before they blew up the planet. And later, we see Copy-Vegeta no sells Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks' attacks in his base form, and then Goku comes and easily catches Copy-Vegeta's fist.

So in the anime, Goku and Vegeta are Super Saiyan Gods in their base or at least their Super Saiyan forms.

Ok, let's see:

1) Means nothing, as he was still using ssg power internally while using ss outside of his body. It just shows that ss allowed goku to extend span of time while he could preserve ssg power(forced it to stay within him internally and delaying it's fadding away process). Base goku being abe to destroy beerus attack was just matter of will and also last burst of ssg fading away power to use it all at once. Literally what Akira meant by goku absorbing goodhood in himself was goku being able to use divine ki once he learns to call it back(whis's training was needed and resulted in ssb). This was only cofirmed by King Kai mentioning goku managed to become god again after turning into ssb.

2) Sure, fireeza have done this, but I disagree with ss gohan being any close to ultimate gohan as nothing points to such conclusion. Hell Gohan admiting to not train and not be certain to turn into ss makes it clear as day that gohan just got weaker if not much weaker then buu arc ultimate self. Gohan loosing muscles, neglecting training just further hints gohan was weaker. Also Majin buu being brought up for safety case shows that gohan was at the most barerly above him, which means ss gohan ~ fat buu(enraged Mr buu). Honestly I believe not even first form frieeza could beat fat buu... However Final form frieza should be at least around buutenks at least.

3) Again, filler addition, and also beerus was holding back and we do not know how much, as beerus would easily be heavily supressed. Whis stopping beerus(monaka outfit) vs goku battle again doesn't mean much as ss3 goku would be able to or close to destroy planet. Hell being around or barerly above kid buu you can destroy planets by clashing fists...At least buuhan would do that easily. Copy water arc is just filler, not planned by Akira so I am not sure if it holds any importance to canon.

No, they are not unless you can counter my arguments and prove otherwise

King King said that Goku became a Super Saiyan God again. Which is true because Goku did lose Super Saiyan God during his fight with Beerus. Howeve, his power didn't drop. He was still able to fight Beerus without even realizing that he lost his transformation. Beerus had to tell him. So this isn't a matter of Goku willing himself to keep the power since he didn't even noticed he wasn't transformed anymore.

Gohan in his base was still stronger tha Piccolo, who is at least up to par with Semi-Perfect Cell. According to Beerus, Goku's base form was still weaker than full power Freeza. Meaning that Gohan's base alone was up there with Perfect Cell. Keep in mind that Gohan originally had to be a Super Saiyan 2 to surpass Cell. So Super Saiyan Gohan's power is within range of his Ultimate power. Gohan even said as much before he transformed. Also, they wanted Buu because Buu is the second strongest person, if we don't count Gotenks. He would be more usefully than Piccolo or any of the other human characters.

There is no filler in the anime, at least not in the way it was in the original series. The anime is not buying time for the manga or another source to catch up nor do you have Toriyama's script to do a compare and contrast. So you can't discount something as filler and not counting. Also, Goku put up a fight against Beerus in the Monaka outfit, while Super Saiyan 3 Goku couldn't even touch Beerus who was trying even less. Also, Whis wouldn't have to intervene if Beerus could just knock Goku out in one-shot at any time he wanted.

About Super Saiyan God being absorbed in base or even ss once again, well sure it looked like goku lost super Saiyan god during fight with beerus, however it seems you didn't pay attention to whole beerus's speech about it. Sure Beerus stated goku didn't drop in power at all, but he also told him that it is due to crimson fire still burning inside your body which make it possible. It was just effect of fadding away power which goku with his will and ss was able to unconsciously keep it up inside him and prolong it's power effect on him. Same with base goku who managed to do it as last burst of this crimson fire along with his determination and will(will power makes miracle as in every anime/manga). However later it was contradicted and shown otherwise that neither goku or vegeta are as strong as ssg in

1) base - Whis commenting on them vastly improved in base, Goku and vegeta denying and being afraid to clash with beerus before ssb came out, Oracle fish talking about ss transformation making them much more powerfull and whis or beerus didn't deny this.

2) ss - When goku turned ss against Frost, beerus's reaction well it says all. He blamed goku for playing around and not using full power. Also reintroduction of ss2 and ss3 forms would make it possible, as in ss3 form goku would be 8x ssg at least which wouldn't make much more of sense, so it was either retconn or wrong interpretation both some of you guys who were watching anime. However main point was made when Gowasu assumed ss2 goku fighting Zamasu was on par or at the same tier at least as beerus. Hell Beerus even straightly away denied it and said he isn't even as powerfull(in that form, ss2) as he was while fighting beerus(as ssg).

Well, I am not sure about base gohan being on par with perfect cell... especially while later on trunks was not certain if gohan would be even close to his ss2 power in cell arc, however goku reinforced this statement being impressed by trunks stating that he is even stronger then kid ss2 gohan was in cell arc. So I would argue that ss gohan isn't even stronger then kid ss2 gohan in cell arc... or at least not much above him, possibly around fat buu. About buu it would be fine, however later goku wanted buu to take part in universe 6 tournament and even called buu crazy strong while enraged, which would imply base goku/vegeta are a bit stronger then fat buu but not to compeletly be out of his tier. See SS gotenks level probably.

About Anime filler, extra part added. I agree that it is hard to say or judge so I will leave it like that.

Either way, about ssg being absorbed it was either retconn as Akira gave it deeper meaning/another way of interpretation which would be that goku would be finally to become god on his own( not ritual needed anymore, neither ssg), however he couldn't acces it in base or ss, or at least not fully. Of course I am not denying that their base forms powered up greatly, see rof base goku/vegeta are in ss3 range same as final frieeza, possibly close to ultimate gohan from buu arc. Current base goku/vegeta are even slightly above ultimate gohan from buu arc, so:

Anime list:

current ssb goku/vegeta
golden frieeza | u6 ssb goku/vegeta
rof u6 ssb goku/vegeta
Goku Black
current ss3 goku
u6 ss3 goku | bog arc ss3 vegetto
rof ss3 goku | buu arc ss3 vegetto
current ss2 goku/vegeta
u6 ss2 goku/vegeta | bog arc ss2 vegetto
Zamasu
rof ss2 goku/vegeta | buu arc ss2 vegetto
current ss goku/vegeta
u6 ss goku/vegeta | bog arc ss vegetto
rof ss goku/vegeta | buu arc ss vegetto
current Base goku/vegeta
Buu arc ultimate gohan
Final form frieeza | u6 base goku/vegeta
rof base goku/vegeta | ss3 gotenks
First Form frieeza
ss gohan
ss gotenks

That how I see it

[apex_pretador]

Pan below base trunks? And you forgot gohan.
Other than that, pretty perfect list.

I didn't forget anyone? What do you mean? Who is that weird person you're suggesting I forgot? I don't think they exist.

Seems like you only read manga. Gohan is an anime filler character

[HeroR]

About Super Saiyan God being absorbed in base or even ss once again, well sure it looked like goku lost super Saiyan god during fight with beerus, however it seems you didn't pay attention to whole beerus's speech about it. Sure Beerus stated goku didn't drop in power at all, but he also told him that it is due to crimson fire still burning inside your body which make it possible. It was just effect of fadding away power which goku with his will and ss was able to unconsciously keep it up inside him and prolong it's power effect on him. Same with base goku who managed to do it as last burst of this crimson fire along with his determination and will(will power makes miracle as in every anime/manga). However later it was contradicted and shown otherwise that neither goku or vegeta are as strong as ssg in

1) base - Whis commenting on them vastly improved in base, Goku and vegeta denying and being afraid to clash with beerus before ssb came out, Oracle fish talking about ss transformation making them much more powerfull and whis or beerus didn't deny this.

2) ss - When goku turned ss against Frost, beerus's reaction well it says all. He blamed goku for playing around and not using full power. Also reintroduction of ss2 and ss3 forms would make it possible, as in ss3 form goku would be 8x ssg at least which wouldn't make much more of sense, so it was either retconn or wrong interpretation both some of you guys who were watching anime. However main point was made when Gowasu assumed ss2 goku fighting Zamasu was on par or at the same tier at least as beerus. Hell Beerus even straightly away denied it and said he isn't even as powerfull(in that form, ss2) as he was while fighting beerus(as ssg).

Well, I am not sure about base gohan being on par with perfect cell... especially while later on trunks was not certain if gohan would be even close to his ss2 power in cell arc, however goku reinforced this statement being impressed by trunks stating that he is even stronger then kid ss2 gohan was in cell arc. So I would argue that ss gohan isn't even stronger then kid ss2 gohan in cell arc... or at least not much above him, possibly around fat buu. About buu it would be fine, however later goku wanted buu to take part in universe 6 tournament and even called buu crazy strong while enraged, which would imply base goku/vegeta are a bit stronger then fat buu but not to compeletly be out of his tier. See SS gotenks level probably.

About Anime filler, extra part added. I agree that it is hard to say or judge so I will leave it like that.

Either way, about ssg being absorbed it was either retconn as Akira gave it deeper meaning/another way of interpretation which would be that goku would be finally to become god on his own( not ritual needed anymore, neither ssg), however he couldn't acces it in base or ss, or at least not fully. Of course I am not denying that their base forms powered up greatly, see rof base goku/vegeta are in ss3 range same as final frieeza, possibly close to ultimate gohan from buu arc. Current base goku/vegeta are even slightly above ultimate gohan from buu arc, so:

Anime list:

current ssb goku/vegeta
golden frieeza | u6 ssb goku/vegeta
rof u6 ssb goku/vegeta
Goku Black
current ss3 goku
u6 ss3 goku | bog arc ss3 vegetto
rof ss3 goku | buu arc ss3 vegetto
current ss2 goku/vegeta
u6 ss2 goku/vegeta | bog arc ss2 vegetto
Zamasu
rof ss2 goku/vegeta | buu arc ss2 vegetto
current ss goku/vegeta
u6 ss goku/vegeta | bog arc ss vegetto
rof ss goku/vegeta | buu arc ss vegetto
current Base goku/vegeta
Buu arc ultimate gohan
Final form frieeza | u6 base goku/vegeta
rof base goku/vegeta | ss3 gotenks
First Form frieeza
ss gohan
ss gotenks

That how I see it

Believe whatever you want. The anime has clearly showed that Goku kept the power of Super Saiyan God in his base or Super Saiyan form, he was able to fight stronger than ever final form Freeza while first form Frieza killed Piccolo and turned Super Saiyan Gohan into swiss cheese, and he's much stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

Also, saying that Toriyama retcon a script that he personally wrote not even a year after he decides to write the Champa Saga with no evidence other than a manga using his outline, which has several events that differ from the anime and even the original source material, is a little strange to me.

[ssbgoku]

About Super Saiyan God being absorbed in base or even ss once again, well sure it looked like goku lost super Saiyan god during fight with beerus, however it seems you didn't pay attention to whole beerus's speech about it. Sure Beerus stated goku didn't drop in power at all, but he also told him that it is due to crimson fire still burning inside your body which make it possible. It was just effect of fadding away power which goku with his will and ss was able to unconsciously keep it up inside him and prolong it's power effect on him. Same with base goku who managed to do it as last burst of this crimson fire along with his determination and will(will power makes miracle as in every anime/manga). However later it was contradicted and shown otherwise that neither goku or vegeta are as strong as ssg in

1) base - Whis commenting on them vastly improved in base, Goku and vegeta denying and being afraid to clash with beerus before ssb came out, Oracle fish talking about ss transformation making them much more powerfull and whis or beerus didn't deny this.

2) ss - When goku turned ss against Frost, beerus's reaction well it says all. He blamed goku for playing around and not using full power. Also reintroduction of ss2 and ss3 forms would make it possible, as in ss3 form goku would be 8x ssg at least which wouldn't make much more of sense, so it was either retconn or wrong interpretation both some of you guys who were watching anime. However main point was made when Gowasu assumed ss2 goku fighting Zamasu was on par or at the same tier at least as beerus. Hell Beerus even straightly away denied it and said he isn't even as powerfull(in that form, ss2) as he was while fighting beerus(as ssg).

Well, I am not sure about base gohan being on par with perfect cell... especially while later on trunks was not certain if gohan would be even close to his ss2 power in cell arc, however goku reinforced this statement being impressed by trunks stating that he is even stronger then kid ss2 gohan was in cell arc. So I would argue that ss gohan isn't even stronger then kid ss2 gohan in cell arc... or at least not much above him, possibly around fat buu. About buu it would be fine, however later goku wanted buu to take part in universe 6 tournament and even called buu crazy strong while enraged, which would imply base goku/vegeta are a bit stronger then fat buu but not to compeletly be out of his tier. See SS gotenks level probably.

About Anime filler, extra part added. I agree that it is hard to say or judge so I will leave it like that.

Either way, about ssg being absorbed it was either retconn as Akira gave it deeper meaning/another way of interpretation which would be that goku would be finally to become god on his own( not ritual needed anymore, neither ssg), however he couldn't acces it in base or ss, or at least not fully. Of course I am not denying that their base forms powered up greatly, see rof base goku/vegeta are in ss3 range same as final frieeza, possibly close to ultimate gohan from buu arc. Current base goku/vegeta are even slightly above ultimate gohan from buu arc, so:

Anime list:

current ssb goku/vegeta
golden frieeza | u6 ssb goku/vegeta
rof u6 ssb goku/vegeta
Goku Black
current ss3 goku
u6 ss3 goku | bog arc ss3 vegetto
rof ss3 goku | buu arc ss3 vegetto
current ss2 goku/vegeta
u6 ss2 goku/vegeta | bog arc ss2 vegetto
Zamasu
rof ss2 goku/vegeta | buu arc ss2 vegetto
current ss goku/vegeta
u6 ss goku/vegeta | bog arc ss vegetto
rof ss goku/vegeta | buu arc ss vegetto
current Base goku/vegeta
Buu arc ultimate gohan
Final form frieeza | u6 base goku/vegeta
rof base goku/vegeta | ss3 gotenks
First Form frieeza
ss gohan
ss gotenks

That how I see it

Believe whatever you want. The anime has clearly showed that Goku kept the power of Super Saiyan God in his base or Super Saiyan form, he was able to fight stronger than ever final form Freeza while first form Frieza killed Piccolo and turned Super Saiyan Gohan into swiss cheese, and he's much stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

Also, saying that Toriyama retcon a script that he personally wrote not even a year after he decides to write the Champa Saga with no evidence other than a manga using his outline, which has several events that differ from the anime and even the original source material, is a little strange to me.

No need to be angry about it. I just pointed out all flaws in such interpretation even showing that it still can be true, but it was just one time thing as goku had still crimson fire burning inside him which wouldn't be addressed by beerus if it didn't mean anything. Also it could be just imperfect ssb as goku had still hard time to control divine ki he just reached out with ssg, so he looked like ss while having power close to ssb...

Anyway, I definietly will to stick to this as it makes much more sense then Super Saiyan god base or Super Saiyan form which was contradicted and proven wrong at least few times, I will stick to it until someone counter my arguments or these flaws...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

1) Well you can simply go by common logic/mechanism of plot which means main or even just relevant characters are getting stronger in new arc then the last villain in previous arc. Also They seemed to be close to each other, I mean ssb and golden frieeza. Just then see they have trained for 3 days in rosat and they were impressed by their progress even although they were supposed to be at limit. Well after fighting/combating with participants from u6 in universe 6 arc, they should get stronger by fighing alone which is Saiyan trait.

I'm not saying that it's wrong to assume they are above Golden Freeza, I just won't say they are above until we get confirmation. Just my opinion, I may change my mind later though.

2) Well sure, that ok. I also have buu arc base vegetto below even buu arc ultimate gohan or at the most slightly above him. However I didn't support two base theory which in my mind is needless as there is no super god level base for goku and vegeta. Also statement about goku absorbing goodhood and not needed to tranform in ssg, seems to be taken out of context and misunderstood. That why later goku being impressed with vegeta, who felt different and catched up with beerus made people think that both goku and vegeta are god level in base. Later whis mentioned they improved vastly so well people guessed they could be stronger in ssg in base. However here are hints/statements which prove otherwise or at least throw wrench in two base theory:

- Oracle fish mentioned of super Saiyan transformation and making both goku and vegeta much more stronger, which means x50 multpilier would be still correct.(ssgx50) and still being below beerus sound ridiculous. especially after kkx10 ssb bullshit and more confused part.

- Whis stating that both goku and vegeta are only tree in compare to castle(beerus). Also Goku and Vegeta right away refused to fight beerus when he asked them to confront him.

- King Kai calling goku for finally regaining god status and divine ki by turning in ssb which was clear refference to ssg achieved in bog arc.

- Majin buu being relevant against first form frieeza and z team being disappointed and concerned with lack of buu on their side.

All your points come from filler, which I don't really care since Toei is a mess. The movies with the FnF manga make it clear without any doubt that Goku & Vegeta in their base forms are at SSG level. The manga omits Goku & Vegeta ever having SSG power in their base/SS forms, and instead brings back SSG. So, I use the 2-base theory to connect the two continuities (because unlike the anime, these 2 continuities follow the original manga & have the most involvement from Toriyama), since the BoG arc of the manga is rushed & the FnF arc is skipped, plus the movies come directly from Toriyama.

4) Well if you disregard gohan's training with Picoolo then I dont' see him being even much more stronger then Majin buu, honestly either on par with him or close to him.
Picoolo would also get weaker in time of peace and being turned into babysitter for Pan. Also big loss of muscles in gohan's case and it is even siginificant in drawing of dragon ball super where characters are generally slimmer then they would be normally. Gohan being uncertain if he can turn into ss and weak performance well I think it just hints to gohan being infferior to even his teen ssj2 which would make him around buu arc ss gohan and buu arc ss2 gohan(before z sword).

I explain Gohan below. As for Piccolo, Toriyama said that he keeps training all these years, so I don't see him getting weaker.

Why in particular do you have ROF Gohan being so strong (as he's seemingly only depicted that way in the anime)? Nothing wrong with it at all, was just curious since the movies/manga weren't too specific on Gohan's power (all that's shown is 1st Form Freeza > SSJ Gohan > Shisami > Piccolo). Most see Gohan as being more in his Buu-arc levels of power w/o his Ultimate state with what's shown. It's only in the anime where his power is depicted as being significantly greater than that (ROF Base > ROF Piccolo, Super Saiyan > Every other Z Fighter other than Goku/Vegeta, etc.).

The script calls Gohan the strongest in the group against Freeza's army, before he used Super Saiyan. The anime shows the same, so I feel like this is the level he is.

The reason the theory exists is because applying two bases is the only way to make the manga and anime "sync" up. In the manga, all SSJ forms are below SSG currently, while in the anime it appears all forms are above SSG. If we applied the "two base theory" where Goku and Vegeta infused their bases with God Ki against Frieza and SSJ3 Gotenks while they didn't do it while in the Champa arc then suddenly all the power levels are suddenly in the same realm across all media. Basically it makes everything across all media be able to somewhat sync.

It also fixes plot-holes in the anime. Base Goku & Vegeta can sense god ki because they have become strong enough to do so, yet SS2 Trunks, who is a hundred times stronger than them, can't sense god ki. Piccolo is at base Gohan's level, who is weaker than Ultimate Gohan, and he is also still weaker than Majin Boo, who is close to SS3 level, yet in the tournament he is magically close to SSG level.

It fixes a plot-hole with the original manga as well. Oob is was supposed to be weaker than Pure Boo in the 28th TB, so causing trouble to base Goku, who is supposed to be at SSG level, doesn't make much sense.

[TheMikado]

Also, saying that Toriyama retcon a script that he personally wrote not even a year after he decides to write the Champa Saga with no evidence other than a manga using his outline, which has several events that differ from the anime and even the original source material, is a little strange to me.

I'm not sure why this doesn't make sense to you?

It's like when them making the Star Wars movies and then making the animated series. When they made them movie it was as stand alone piece, AFTER they determined it was going to be serialized some things HAD to be changed. This happens hundreds of times of across various media. Why would the Dragonball franchise and Toriyama be uniquely immune to this???

[buutenks]

The base saiyans= ssg got retconned when Whis made the tree and castle statement. By that point, their base forms were many times weaker than ssg and only by going ssj blue they could reach that level of power again.

Plus, Trunks fails to sense god ki, and then remembers what Beerus said. So even as ssj2 FP, he doesnt stand a chance vs base Goku, if Goku would actually be serious.

Still, maybe next ep will shed some light.

[TheMikado]

The base saiyans= ssg got retconned when Whis made the tree and castle statement. By that point, their base forms were many times weaker than ssg and only by going ssj blue they could reach that level of power again.

Plus, Trunks fails to sense god ki, and then remembers what Beerus said. So even as ssj2 FP, he doesnt stand a chance vs base Goku, if Goku would actually be serious.

Still, maybe next ep will shed some light.

This is now a third take on power levels that I wasn't aware existed. Basically your thought is that they are around the same level as the manga and that there just is no SSG equivalent. So how do you explain the Frieza and Gotenks battles?

[ssbgoku]

Also, saying that Toriyama retcon a script that he personally wrote not even a year after he decides to write the Champa Saga with no evidence other than a manga using his outline, which has several events that differ from the anime and even the original source material, is a little strange to me.

I'm not sure why this doesn't make sense to you?

It's like when them making the Star Wars movies and then making the animated series. When they made them movie it was as stand alone piece, AFTER they determined it was going to be serialized some things HAD to be changed. This happens hundreds of times of across various media. Why would the Dragonball franchise and Toriyama be uniquely immune to this???

That correct, it isn't also like it has never happened in dragon ball super anime...

Akira brought 6-10-15 scale to show how ssg goku compares to beerus. Later in anime even beerus used 10% line against vegeta. If we even take minimal approach where enraged vegeta was just 2% of beerus, then we have him 5 times weaker then 10% beerus, which would be fine. According to ssbx10 kaioken thing ssg goku isn't even 10% of beerus of power to make it sense, however vegeta was weak in beerus' eyes and he visually powered up more then one times, so we got another retconn...

1) 10% line and ssg being much more powerfull
2) retconn with kaiokenx10ssb

See prime example of double standards. It just shows that people are biased towards certain choices.

[Darkron2151]

The script calls Gohan the strongest in the group against Freeza's army, before he used Super Saiyan. The anime shows the same, so I feel like this is the level he is.

Ah, ok. I didn't know that the script stated that. Thank you.
with that in mind, do you think gohan still gets the same 50x boost from Super Saiyan?

[DBZ Macky]

The script calls Gohan the strongest in the group against Freeza's army, before he used Super Saiyan. The anime shows the same, so I feel like this is the level he is.

Ah, ok. I didn't know that the script stated that. Thank you.
with that in mind, do you think gohan still gets the same 50x boost from Super Saiyan?

Remember how Gohan might've lost some of his SSJ2 power in the Boo arc because of his statement that he could not draw out his dormant powers? Well, I'd say the same has happened here, Gohan is weaker in base but his psuedo-Ultimate form is stronger than Piccolo. His SSJ is stronger than that but it's not 50x Ultimate, It's just 50x of his base. What do you think? Here are my numbers just for reference.

Gohan= 70,000,000
Gohan (Ultimate, Lost Power)= 3,000,000,000
Gohan (Super Saiyan)= 3,500,000,000

Edit: Guys, I also wanted to know your thoughts on this;

---Boo Arc---
Vegeta (Super Saiyan 2)= 8,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan 3)= 32,000,000,000
Gotenks (Super Saiyan 3)= 100,000,000,000
Gohan (Ultimate)= 120,000,000,000
Super Buu= 80,000,000,000
Super Buu (+ Gotenks)= 180,000,000,000
Super Buu (+ Gohan)= 200,000,000,000
Super Buu (+ Piccolo, Goten, & Trunks)= 81,600,000,000
Buff Buu= 120,000,000,000
Kid Buu= 30,000,000,000

---Battle of Gods Arc---
Gotenks (Super Saiyan 3)= 34,000,000,000
Gohan (Ultimate, Lost Power)= 35,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan 3)= 36,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Mutation)= 45,000,000,000

Isn't it very much possible that Gohan and Gotenks got ridiculously weak instead of Goku and Vegeta getting ridiculously strong?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The script calls Gohan the strongest in the group against Freeza's army, before he used Super Saiyan. The anime shows the same, so I feel like this is the level he is.

Ah, ok. I didn't know that the script stated that. Thank you.
with that in mind, do you think gohan still gets the same 50x boost from Super Saiyan?

Here is the exact statement:

Despite being called “Freeza Army”, by now it’s been reduced to merely a hodge-podge of second-rate warriors. Strength-wise Earth’s army overwhelmingly has the upper hand, and the enemy force’s numbers steadily drop. However, there are still some strong enemies. The mercenaries are particularly troublesome. Gohan is strongest. And Piccolo’s strong too. Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Kame-sennin, and even Jaco all play a big role.

And yes, I think he still gets the same x50 boost.

[dbzfan7]

Pan below base trunks? And you forgot gohan.
Other than that, pretty perfect list.

I didn't forget anyone? What do you mean? Who is that weird person you're suggesting I forgot? I don't think they exist.

Seems like you only read manga. Gohan is an anime filler character

Are you sure you're not talking about Yamcha? I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a Cohan or Whoten as some people put it...I think....

[Bullza]

All three versions of the story don't seem to sync up power level wise. They all presented something in one version that wasn't the same in another. They could and should have done a better job of making them all fit, maybe they didn't think it was too important because the story takes priority but it really wouldn't have hurt for their to be more consistency with each other.

The anime definitely seems closer to how it was portrayed in the movie though and the movie version is the most canonical version of that Battle of Gods and Resurrection F story of the three in my opinion.

It does look like some of the things Toriyama said have been changed or retconned and that's perfectly understandable because he said some of these things before he even knew there was gonna be another movie let alone a series.

Beerus in particular was surely retconned. He's been powered up compared to what he was in Battle of Gods just so that he can stay above Goku without limiting him from getting stronger.

[apex_pretador]

All three versions of the story don't seem to sync up power level wise. They all presented something in one version that wasn't the same in another. They could and should have done a better job of making them all fit, maybe they didn't think it was too important because the story takes priority but it really wouldn't have hurt for their to be more consistency with each other.

The anime definitely seems closer to how it was portrayed in the movie though and the movie version is the most canonical version of that Battle of Gods and Resurrection F story of the three in my opinion.

It does look like some of the things Toriyama said have been changed or retconned and that's perfectly understandable because he said some of these things before he even knew there was gonna be another movie let alone a series.

Beerus in particular was surely retconned. He's been powered up compared to what he was in Battle of Gods just so that he can stay above Goku without limiting him from getting stronger.

Infact anime and manga are perfectly in line, with the difference only being how strong are goku & vegeta in their various forms.

[TheMikado]

All three versions of the story don't seem to sync up power level wise. They all presented something in one version that wasn't the same in another. They could and should have done a better job of making them all fit, maybe they didn't think it was too important because the story takes priority but it really wouldn't have hurt for their to be more consistency with each other.

The anime definitely seems closer to how it was portrayed in the movie though and the movie version is the most canonical version of that Battle of Gods and Resurrection F story of the three in my opinion.

It does look like some of the things Toriyama said have been changed or retconned and that's perfectly understandable because he said some of these things before he even knew there was gonna be another movie let alone a series.

Beerus in particular was surely retconned. He's been powered up compared to what he was in Battle of Gods just so that he can stay above Goku without limiting him from getting stronger.

I do not understand this argument that the movies are more "canonical" to the Super anime??? Wouldn't the Super manga about the Super anime be considered more "canonical" to the Super anime than the movies created prior to there even being known there would be a series?

I'm really not understanding the reasoning for taking the information in the movies and applying it to the anime?