Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ahill1]

Not necessarily. Given how Oob doesn't have much of a handle on his power, and the overall shortness of the fight in the manga (anime extensions be damned), it is entirely possible that his power output was much less than the full 30 billion (from my list) that Pure Boo was packing.

I would personally put base Goku at around 120~150 million at base form, with his Boo arc base level being 90 million. Mind you, I'm not taking Super into account as I haven't been happy with the explanations (or lack thereof) of how strong everyone is in that show, and the writing and pacing of Super in general.

Goku base (end of Z) should be at least around Good Boo:

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P6.5
Goku: “…But someone besides us and Boo might win.”
Satan: “Hahhahhah, now really! There’s no way that could happen, right?”

Goku was already expecting Oob to be able to beat Good Boo, and later:


Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu
Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. But you don’t know how to use your power. This is the first time you’ve fought like this, right? I've got it! From now on I'll live with you at your house and teach you!” But you don’t know how to use your power. This is the first time you’ve fought like this, right? I've got it! From now on I'll live with you at your house and teach you!”

Yet Goku said Oob is as amazing as he expected, that is, Oob's power matches his previous estimations (might be able to beat Good Boo) and base Goku showed to be close to Oob's power.

[Noah]

Which power level SSJ Goku would have after his first attempt in the Super Saiyan God ritual?

[DanielSSJ]

Which power level SSJ Goku would have after his first attempt in the Super Saiyan God ritual?

I think Gohan says that Goku is strongest warrior ever after becoming a Super Saiyan Not-A-God, so I'd say he'sat least as strong as Gohan-Boo, at around 300 billion or so. In fact, let's just multiply Goku's SS3 power by ten and put him at 400 billion. Gohan wasn't around for Vegetto and wasn't able to bask in his glory, so were not counting him in that statement.

[Darkron2151]

Which power level SSJ Goku would have after his first attempt in the Super Saiyan God ritual?

Piccolo stated that the god ritual didn't work and SSJ Goku just absorbed the energy from everyone else in the circle, so it could be just SSJ Goku + Everyone else in the Circle's power level. However, everyone other than Piccolo, Beerus, and Whis were getting all excited and thinking that it worked, implying that SSJ Goku with everyone's combined energy was stronger than anything they saw beforehand (SSJ2 Rageta, SSJ3 Goku, Ultimate Gohan, etc.). That's all that's shown, really.

This feels a lot like when a weakened SSJ4 Goku absorbed the energy of 3 Super Saiyans and a normal Pan (Which should be a mere fraction of his power) and suddenly became strong enough to stomp Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta. Or when SSJ Goku absorbed the power from a bunch of beat-up Non-Super Saiyans and a beat-up Super Namekian and then proceeded to beat the Legendary Super Saiyan with one punch.The simple addition of powers doesn't really work in these cases. Maybe Super/BOG is similar to this. It's anyone's guess.

[Desassina]

I'll tackle an old list of mine with a few benchmarks. It's not supposed to be faithful to the detail, because you could always drop a few numbers to increase others. The point is that they are around that value, and so the story will help you tinker with them. Here's the rules:

Multipliers

[spoiler]SSJ1 = [50, 100], which is from base SSJ to full power.
SSJ2 = [100, 400], which is from base SSJ2 to full power.
SSJ3 = [400, 6400], which is from base SSJ3 to full power.

Grade II SSJ = 64
Grade III SSJ = 80[/spoiler]

Cell transformations

[spoiler]Imperfect = from 10% of his Super Perfect power to 20%
Semi-Pefect = from 20% of his Super Perfect power to 40%
Perfect = from 40% of his Super Perfect power to 80%

When he transforms, he uses 1.25 times more than his previous full power, and his Zenkai is around the same increase.[/spoiler]

Majin Boo transformations

[spoiler]Good Boo = 128, his powerless form with Fat Boo's frame.
Fat Boo = 160, his full power before the anger boost and split.
Kid Boo = 400, his original and true self without South Kaioshin's absorption.
Evil Boo = 500, less than Super Boo and slightly more than Kid Boo.
Super Boo = 640, his merger with Good Boo as Evil Boo.
Buff Boo = 800, South Kaioshin's absorption showing through.

With the formula being:

Majin Boo's Added Power = Majin Boo's Power * Victim's Power / Scale (100, in this case)
Majin Boo's Power Taken = (Majin Boo's Power / Victim's Power) * Scale (100, in this case)

So that we can arrive to Good Boo times Evil Boo being equal to Super Boo, and Super Boo divided by Fat Boo being equal to Kid Boo. Majin Boo can also not tap into the power of whomever he has absorbed. He can tap into base Gotenks' power, but decide not to use the kids', since they are below his scale and would simply make him weaker. Piccolo does the same, although we have confirmation that he was used.[/spoiler]

---

Before I proceed, check the rules I made for myself. This list will only start at Freeza's confrontation with SSJ Goku and then move towards the end of the Boo saga. I will use small increases in power (1.25, 1.28, 1.6, 2) except for when the multipliers are used, off course.

[apex_pretador]

Which power level SSJ Goku would have after his first attempt in the Super Saiyan God ritual?

You mean when he absorbed everyone's ki before "god"?

Well, Points to consider:

- SS3 goku was the top dog on the planet at BoG. Vegeta implied that no one could beat someone who 2-shotted Goku, (which includes gohan + Gotenks) and no one could two shot him (which includes buuhan). So, at the very minimum , goku is in the league of buu arc Gohan/gotenks if not above them.

- AT said everyone was at their best in BoG, that includes gohan. Vegeta called goku the strongest, so he was stronger than gohan.

- Rageta, who was DEFINITELY stronger than gohan, was said to surpass "even goku" not "even gohan" further solidifying my point that goku was the strongest there.

- All this is in line with ggoku's "i'll train to surpass buu" from buu arc.


- Rageta was quite significantly stronger than goku, who was stronger than gohan. I guess he is atleast around buuhan, if not quite a lot above him

- Rageta was fodderized by beerus, who notes that he didnt need even 10% to deal with them.

- Everyone thought that goku had a chance at beerus now, except piccolo (who thought that goku just got stronger & not god, plus he might have heard beerus saying that he never used 10% power), including goku, who himself said BoG vegetto is nothing to beerus.

- The above point and scaling from rageta, puts him quite a lot above vegetto. I see him around SS3 vegetto at buu arc.

[DanielSSJ]

Desassina, I'm just going to say it. I hate the concept of multiplying one character's battle power by another character's battle power to discern their fused counterparts battle power. Math.... just doesn't work like that. Battle power are just an arbitrary scale used to measure the amount of ki someone possesses, and you can't physical things by other physical things without changing the units. You can multiply length by length, but the units change, from length to area: 2 inches X 2 inches becomes 4 squared inches, because you're adding a whole new dimension to the equation. Multiply it again and you have cubic inches. So do fused characters have squared ki? What would that even be?

Anyways, even if you ignore the units, your product wouldn't even be consistent if put into another scale. For example, Babidi's Kiri scale vs the Battle Power scale. According to V-Jump, 1 Kiri = 50,000 battle power units, or BP for short. I know that this doesn't really work, since that would mean Goku's Super Saiyan BP would be 150 million, like it was back in the Freeza arc and he's grown much stronger since then, but for the sake of argument, I'm gonna use it anyways. Let's say that the Vegetto's battle power actually is Goku's multiplied by Vegeta's.

Going by the Kiri scale, you have 3,000 x 3,000, which ends up as 9,000,000. Based on the previously established conversion rate (1 Kiri = 50,000 BP), Vegetto's battle power should end up as 450,000,000,000 or 450 billion.

By the BP scale, you have 150,000,000 x 150,000,000, which ends up as... 2.25 x 10¹⁶ or 22,500,000,000,000,000 or 22.5 quadrillion. That is quite a difference, wouldn't you say?

[Desassina]

I don't just multiply their power levels without considering a scale. I guess you're talking specifically about Majin Boo, because I haven't addressed fusion yet. Let me explain in detail why it works, by showing you why it wouldn't with just sum.

Kid Boo, who matches SSJ3 Goku, has a power level that is the equivalent to the multiplier of the latter (400). In order to not bloat their numbers, I decided to divide them by a scale, which is, in this case, Kid Boo's hundredth. The relationship that needs to be maintained is that he matches SSJ3 Goku at one value, and then 4 times less than that is his scale. If Kid Boo is 4000, then his scale is 1000, or 200 if his power level is 800. That scale is maintained throughout considering his initial power. Now, let's see some examples.

Kid Boo * South Kaioshin / Scale = Buff Boo -> 400 * 200 / 100 = 800
Buff Boo * Dai Kaishion / Scale = Fat Boo -> 800 * 20 / 100 = 160

Dai Kaioshin only needs to be below Kid Boo's scale that he will suppress his power, without making a condition or some other operation. If we were using sum, then Dai Kaioshin's power would have to be negative, and that is a no-no. Now, let's say that 400 was actually 1 in Babidi's scale:

Kid Boo * South Kaioshin / Scale = Buff Boo -> 1 * 0.5 / 0.25 = 2
Buff Boo * Dai Kaioshin / Scale = Fat Boo -> 2 * 0.05 / 0.25 = 0.4

If we multiply these by 400 to undo Babidi's scale, then we arrive to the values above. Buff Boo is 800, and Fat Boo is 160. As you can see, it didn't affect the relationship between Majin Boo's numbers.

Let's do one exercise: give me a random number that is readable for Kid Boo, and I will develop his power levels through absorptions, to see if they don't return to what they used to be. I'll make one condition to avoid meticulous changes: Evil Boo has the same power as Buff Boo, and Good Boo is just Kid Boo with Dai Kaioshin.

[Khin]

Numbers for the non-god tier guys in the manga version of Champa and Trunks Arc ?

Here's mine:
[spoiler]Goku/Vegeta: 200,000,000
-- SSJ: 10,000,000,000
-- SSJ2: 20,000,000,000
-- SSJ3: 80,000,000,000

Frost: 120,000,000
-- Assault Form: 160,000,000
-- Final Form: 7,500,000,000
-- Final Form (Tired): 3,250,000,000

Piccolo: 2,500,000,000

Cabba: 180,000,000
-- SSJ: 9,000,000,000

Magetta: 20,000,000,000

Future Trunks: 160,000,000
-- SSJ: 8,000,000,000
-- SSJ2: 16,000,000,000
-- Mutated SSJ2: 80,000,000,000

Black (Against Trunks): 100,000,000,000

For reference

Namek Freeza: 120,000,000
Perfect Cell: 4,000,000,000
Mr. Boo: 20,000,000,000[/spoiler]

[dbgtFO]

Very nicely done Khin!
Though I'm surprised you didn't just have Frost's final form be 50x stronger than first form in order to have the same gap between First Form and Base Goku and Final Form and Super Saiyan Goku.
You felt Final Form Frost had a better showing against SS Goku, than First Form did against Base?
Also you are like the second guy, I can recall, who also has Mr. Buu at exactly 20 billion, just like me. Funny how at least 3 of us end up at that number for him

[Khin]

Very nicely done Khin!
Though I'm surprised you didn't just have Frost's final form be 50x stronger than first form in order to have the same gap between First Form and Base Goku and Final Form and Super.

Thanks. Haven't really thought of the 50x boost idea. I have Super Saiyan Goku as 25% stronger than Final Form Frost to have the gap between them the same as the gap between SSj Goku and Freeza when they fought on Namek.

You felt Final Form Frost had a better showing against SS Goku, than First Form did against Base?

It's because i think Goku was basically just warming up against First and Assault Form Frost, whereas against Frost's Final Form he was seemingly serious.

Also you are like the second guy, I can recall, who also has Mr. Buu at exactly 20 billion, just like me. Funny how at least 3 of us end up at that number for him

I just feel like 20 billion is the perfect placement for him.

[LightBing]

Numbers for the non-god tier guys in the manga version of Champa and Trunks Arc ?

I disagree with quite a few things.

Goku and Vegeta's base should be closer to Piccolo's level, much closer. Piccolo was able to stand up to a damaged Final Form Frost, which is still above his Assault form. While Vegeta was forced to go SSJ to win(easily) against an even weaker Frost.
Besides Goku was playing around with Assault Frost taking a beating and getting up stretching, however Assault Frost should be decently stronger than First Form Frost, since Goku said it caught his attention.

Cabba in base should be almost equal to Goku and Vegeta. Vegeta said so himself, I think a 20% gap is humongous. SSJ Cabba I would also have much weaker, I don't subscribe to the "fixed multiplier school", instead mastered Saiyans should be much stronger than unmastered ones is what I go for.

I might be the only one thinking this but Magetta is a weakling. He only messes with the big boys due to his unnatural resistance.
Here's why: Vegeta started the fight in base and wasn't forced to go SSJ, he only went because Magetta was incredibility heavy. This is contrary to Vegeta starting at SSJ level against Frost and SSJB against Hit.
If you compare this fight to Botamo fight, the conversations are very similar. Thinking up strategy's to defeat their opponents instead of talking about power.
So yeah, I think Magetta is weaker than everyone except Botamo.

This isn't really about power levels but I don't like the name Mutated SSJ2. Because that's what the anime called Vegeta's rage moment and I don't see it as the same as this. I wouldn't even give it a different name, instead just mention powered up SSJ2 or 100% SSJ2 because so far the form is still SSJ2 and nothing different.

Let me know your thoughts.

[Khin]

Goku and Vegeta's base should be closer to Piccolo's level, much closer. Piccolo was able to stand up to a damaged Final Form Frost, which is still above his Assault form. While Vegeta was forced to go SSJ to win(easily) against an even weaker Frost.

How does that make Vegeta and Goku close to Piccolo's level ? Based on what you said, you believe:

Base Goku/Vegeta < Piccolo < Final Form Frost (Tired) < Final Form Frost (Fresh) < SSj Vegeta/Goku

Vegeta and Goku doesn't necessarily need to be close to Piccolo, as all was implied is that a tired Tired Frost is still stronger than Base Vegeta. What you said and was implied goes very well with my list without contradicting anything.

Besides Goku was playing around with Assault Frost taking a beating and getting up stretching, however Assault Frost should be decently stronger than First Form Frost, since Goku said it caught his attention.

That line implies the gap between Assault Frost and Base Goku to be not that big compared to the gap between First Form Frost and Goku rather than Assault Form Frost being way stronger than his 1st Form, plus a 30% is a big increase. Assault Frost basically went all he got and Goku still received no damage and just stretched out after that, that tells the gap between the two.

Cabba in base should be almost equal to Goku and Vegeta. Vegeta said so himself, I think a 20% gap is humongous. SSJ Cabba I would also have much weaker, I don't subscribe to the "fixed multiplier school", instead mastered Saiyans should be much stronger than unmastered ones is what I go for.

Huh ? The gap between 200 Million and 180 Million is just around 10%, seems fair for Vegeta's comment about Cabba being "strong enough to hold his own".

The fight between SSj Cabba and Vegeta lasted for like 3 panels in the manga, with no indication of Vegeta being way stronger. So a 10% gap still works well. It wasn't even implied in the manga that folks with Super Saiyan mastered have much bigger boost that folks with unmastered Super Saiyan.

I might be the only one thinking this but Magetta is a weakling. He only messes with the big boys due to his unnatural resistance.
Here's why: Vegeta started the fight in base and wasn't forced to go SSJ, he only went because Magetta was incredibility heavy. This is contrary to Vegeta starting at SSJ level against Frost and SSJB against Hit.
If you compare this fight to Botamo fight, the conversations are very similar. Thinking up strategy's to defeat their opponents instead of talking about power.
So yeah, I think Magetta is weaker than everyone except Botamo.

Unlike Botamo, Magetta basically destroyed both Base and Super Saiyan Vegeta. You might argue that Magetta is extremely durable, but he still curbstomped him with his physical attacks and his lava (Which is like his version of Ki blasts) easily overpowered Vegeta's blasts.

This isn't really about power levels but I don't like the name Mutated SSJ2. Because that's what the anime called Vegeta's rage moment and I don't see it as the same as this. I wouldn't even give it a different name, instead just mention powered up SSJ2 or 100% SSJ2 because so far the form is still SSJ2 and nothing different.

Trunks having a state similar to Vegeta achieved in BoG is what the theory i'm subscribing. It's the closest explanation why SSj2 Trunks is equal to SSj3 Goku yet weaker than him in Base. Trunks became on par with Goku with his Mutated SSj2, whereas Vegeta actually surpassed Goku. That's because Vegeta is equal to Goku in Base, while Trunks is weaker than Goku,

[Darkron2151]

Numbers for the non-god tier guys in the manga version of Champa and Trunks Arc ?

Here's mine:
[spoiler]Goku/Vegeta: 200,000,000
-- SSJ: 10,000,000,000
-- SSJ2: 20,000,000,000
-- SSJ3: 80,000,000,000

Frost: 120,000,000
-- Assault Form: 160,000,000
-- Final Form: 7,500,000,000
-- Final Form (Tired): 3,250,000,000

Piccolo: 2,500,000,000

Cabba: 180,000,000
-- SSJ: 9,000,000,000

Magetta: 20,000,000,000

Future Trunks: 160,000,000
-- SSJ: 8,000,000,000
-- SSJ2: 16,000,000,000
-- Mutated SSJ2: 80,000,000,000

Black (Against Trunks): 100,000,000,000

For reference

Namek Freeza: 120,000,000
Perfect Cell: 4,000,000,000
Mr. Boo: 20,000,000,000[/spoiler]

Loving this list. Curious as to where you have ROF Gohan, Gotenks, and also Goku and Vegeta specifically during BOG (since they'll still be below Freeza's 120,000,000).

EDIT: I love how Botamo doesn't even make it onto the list Poor guy...

[LightBing]

snip

Goku knew Frost was hiding another transformation, so the line about catching his attention I interpreted as Goku thinking "maybe I don't have to warm up for the whole fight" and he immediately jumps to Super Saiyan to force Frost to transform, basically saying: "playtime is over". If anyone takes a beating and comes out stretching then the gap is quite large.
Going by this power-scaling, I argue the Base Saiyans should be higher due to Goku's performance against Assault Frost. Piccolo asking for Frost to go down a form tells us, he shouldn't be that much above Assault Frost.

First Form Frost <<<< Assault Form Frost <<<<< Base Saiyans < Piccolo <<< Tired Frost <<<<< True Form Frost <<<<<<<<<SSJ Saiyans

I made a blunder, 10% is a perfect gap. Altought I argue that Goku's jump in power from the Android Arc to the Cell Games is proof of the effects of the mastery of SSJ, that can't all be derived from Base.

Magetta didn't destroy Vegeta, he hit him twice. While he did damage, that was because of his weight which is unrelated to power. I'll give you the spit as a counter-argument, although it is spit and not necessary ki blasts, Vegeta does ask if it isn't against the rules.
I never saw Vegeta, Piccolo and Goku comment on his power, only his durability. Even after getting once, he didn't turn SSJ. Goku's first advice is: throw him of the field. Magetta tanks a charged blast from Base Vegeta, Piccolo wonders surprised if he's invulnerable. Even after this Vegeta doesn't turn SSJ, it's very much so like the Botamo fight and we can agree that Botamo wasn't that much.

[ZombieVito]

Numbers for the non-god tier guys in the manga version of Champa and Trunks Arc ?

Here's mine:
[spoiler]Goku/Vegeta: 200,000,000
-- SSJ: 10,000,000,000
-- SSJ2: 20,000,000,000
-- SSJ3: 80,000,000,000

Frost: 120,000,000
-- Assault Form: 160,000,000
-- Final Form: 7,500,000,000
-- Final Form (Tired): 3,250,000,000

Piccolo: 2,500,000,000

Cabba: 180,000,000
-- SSJ: 9,000,000,000

Magetta: 20,000,000,000

Future Trunks: 160,000,000
-- SSJ: 8,000,000,000
-- SSJ2: 16,000,000,000
-- Mutated SSJ2: 80,000,000,000

Black (Against Trunks): 100,000,000,000

For reference

Namek Freeza: 120,000,000
Perfect Cell: 4,000,000,000
Mr. Boo: 20,000,000,000[/spoiler]

I hate the manga but I'll say this:

That Assault Frost BP is impossible. Piccolo outright asks him to fight on that form. Unless Frost can't sense Ki and Piccolo wants to finish the match in one second, that level doesn't work.

F.F Frost (tired) >> Piccolo ~ Assault Frost (tired) is implied IMO.

[Polyphase Avatron]

My (probably hopeless) attempt to make sense of the current DBS power levels, using the BoG scale:

SSJG Goku: 6
SSJB Goku: 7
SSJB Vegeta: 7
Golden Freeza (full power): 8
SSJB Kaio-Ken x10 Goku: 8 - 8.5 (My rationale here is that using the Kaio-ken at that level doesn't multiply all of his stats equally - it gives him maybe 10x the speed but only a slight boost in strength. This is based on the fact that Hit was unable to power up throughout the fight and could only improve by extending the duration of his timeskip, and that both before and after using Kaio-ken x10, Goku still seemed to be giving and receiving about the same amount of damage with each blow he and Hit landed on each other. If Goku could block Hit's blows and gained 10x that power he should have shrugged them off, and if he could hurt Hit and gained 10x that much power, he should have one-shotted him with the first blow that connected. So I believe the Kaio-ken combined with SSJB was unstable and didn't multiply everything equally - it gave him more speed than strength/power/durability)
Hit: 8 - 8.5
Champa: 9.5
Beerus: 10
Whis: 15
Vados: 16
Zeno's guards: 20 each
Daishinkan: 25
Zeno: 200 (for some reason I see him as being a lot stronger than any of the other top fighters, and having no real rivals)

[Khin]

I hate the manga but I'll say this:

That Assault Frost BP is impossible. Piccolo outright asks him to fight on that form. Unless Frost can't sense Ki and Piccolo wants to finish the match in one second, that level doesn't work.

F.F Frost (tired) >> Piccolo ~ Assault Frost (tired) is implied IMO.

Goku said that Piccolo has 0 chance of winning, but said he might find a way to lower his stamina. The way i see it, Piccolo was taking Goku's advice and was trying to find an easy way to lower Frost's stamina, and that's by asking Frost to hold back a little. If Frost actually lowered his power level a bit or reverted back to his Assault Form, Piccolo can fight on par/wreck him in those states respectively, causing him to lose more stamina and power, making Piccolo to match up Frost at full power.

Plus, Piccolo never outright asked him to revert back to his Assault Form. What Piccolo actually said can be interpreted as Piccolo asking Frost to hold back some of his power in his Final Form.

Goku knew Frost was hiding another transformation, so the line about catching his attention I interpreted as Goku thinking "maybe I don't have to warm up for the whole fight" and he immediately jumps to Super Saiyan to force Frost to transform, basically saying: "playtime is over". If anyone takes a beating and comes out stretching then the gap is quite large. Going by this power-scaling, I argue the Base Saiyans should be higher due to Goku's performance against Assault Frost. Piccolo asking for Frost to go down a form tells us, he shouldn't be that much above Assault Frost.

I made a blunder, 10% is a perfect gap. Altought I argue that Goku's jump in power from the Android Arc to the Cell Games is proof of the effects of the mastery of SSJ, that can't all be derived from Base.

Magetta didn't destroy Vegeta, he hit him twice. While he did damage, that was because of his weight which is unrelated to power. I'll give you the spit as a counter-argument, although it is spit and not necessary ki blasts, Vegeta does ask if it isn't against the rules.
I never saw Vegeta, Piccolo and Goku comment on his power, only his durability. Even after getting once, he didn't turn SSJ. Goku's first advice is: throw him of the field. Magetta tanks a charged blast from Base Vegeta, Piccolo wonders surprised if he's invulnerable. Even after this Vegeta doesn't turn SSJ, it's very much so like the Botamo fight and we can agree that Botamo wasn't that much.

The gap between Assault Frost and Base Goku is 25% in my list, that's pretty big if you ask me. See above for the Piccolo thing.

I always see Goku and Gohan's gains in the Cell Arc as a result for training in their Super Saiyan forms. Toriyama said in one of his interview that training in Super Saiyan causes bigger gains, which perfectly explains Goku and Gohan's jump in power in the Cell Arc.

The difference between Magetta and Botamo is that we actually got a statement about Botamo's power, we never got any for Magetta. You might argue that Magetta is a weakling, but there's nothing wrong with putting him above the Super Saiyans either, and i always see his lava spit as a his own version of ki blasts to match up his design. His lava overpowering Vegeta's ki blasts tells me it's not just an ordinary lava, and the power of it is tied with his power level.

I think Magetta's robot-like structure makes ki undetectable. That's why we never got any statements about his power.

Loving this list. Curious as to where you have ROF Gohan, Gotenks, and also Goku and Vegeta specifically during BOG (since they'll still be below Freeza's 120,000,000).

EDIT: I love how Botamo doesn't even make it onto the list Poor guy...

I really don't have any numbers for the top-tier characters in the Boo Arc so far, including Gotenks. That's the reason why i didn't include Goku and Vegeta's god forms and Hit in my list. Since the manga entirely skipped the Revival of 'F' Arc, we don't really know how strong Gohan is. For Vegeta and Goku's base in the Battle of Gods Arc, i have them at 100 Million.

As for Botamo, all we know about him is that he's weaker than Base Goku, so it's really hard to put a number on him. At best, i would put him at 200 Million, twice weaker than Goku.

[DBZ Macky]

- SS3 goku was the top dog on the planet at BoG. Vegeta implied that no one could beat someone who 2-shotted Goku, (which includes gohan + Gotenks) and no one could two shot him (which includes buuhan). So, at the very minimum , goku is in the league of buu arc Gohan/gotenks if not above them.

- AT said everyone was at their best in BoG, that includes gohan. Vegeta called goku the strongest, so he was stronger than gohan.

- Rageta, who was DEFINITELY stronger than gohan, was said to surpass "even goku" not "even gohan" further solidifying my point that goku was the strongest there.

- All this is in line with ggoku's "i'll train to surpass buu" from buu arc.

How the hell does all that tie in with base Goku being weaker than Freeza?
At the very MAX:

Goku= 120,000,000
Goku (SSJ)= 6,000,000,000
Goku (SSJ2)= 12,000,000,000
Goku (SSJ3)= 48,000,000,000

Also, are you implying that Base Gotenks < Base Goku?
When Gotenks surpassed Vegeta in the Buu Saga who was equal to Goku.

[apex_pretador]

- SS3 goku was the top dog on the planet at BoG. Vegeta implied that no one could beat someone who 2-shotted Goku, (which includes gohan + Gotenks) and no one could two shot him (which includes buuhan). So, at the very minimum , goku is in the league of buu arc Gohan/gotenks if not above them.

- AT said everyone was at their best in BoG, that includes gohan. Vegeta called goku the strongest, so he was stronger than gohan.

- Rageta, who was DEFINITELY stronger than gohan, was said to surpass "even goku" not "even gohan" further solidifying my point that goku was the strongest there.

- All this is in line with ggoku's "i'll train to surpass buu" from buu arc.

How the hell does all that tie in with base Goku being weaker than Freeza?
At the very MAX:

Goku= 120,000,000
Goku (SSJ)= 6,000,000,000
Goku (SSJ2)= 12,000,000,000
Goku (SSJ3)= 48,000,000,000

Also, are you implying that Base Gotenks < Base Goku?
When Gotenks surpassed Vegeta in the Buu Saga who was equal to Goku.

No, I'm not saying base gotenks < base goku.
I'm saying SS3 gotenks > SS3 goku. SS3 is stated to be a peak of a saiyan's power level, and goku simply raised his peak. When SS2 vegeta raged, he powered up a lot, but that doesnt mean that base vegeta somehow became SS2 tier, no.

I think
Base goku < Freeza < Base gotenks < SS goku < SS gotenks = SS2 goku < SS3 gotenks < SS3 goku