Is Nozawa's voice the only thing that turns people off of the Japanese version?

[ABED]

As far as I can tell, that song you linked to is not the one that plays when he turns SS2. It's a tad better than the one that played, but nowhere as close to Spirit vs. Spirit, and it certainly overcome the truly awful VO.

after Ocean dub soundtrack. That latter actually was bland and truly forgettable, but I never paid any mind to it. Kikuchi's sounded dated to me as a kid and turned me off. Faulconer's was awesome and absolutely memorable.

The Ocean dub score was better than Faulconer's. The theme that plays when Goku arrives to save Gohan and Kuririn in both Saiyan and Freeza arcs gives me chills. And let's finally get to the dated remark. Who cares? It fit Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball isn't a contemporary show, it's timeless, and Faulconer was dated even when it was released. No one was listening to that sort of music.

Sure, many people do find it hard to come around to anything other than what they grew up with, but I'm not one of those. Even at 13, I heard the Faulconer synth as cheap and un-Dragon Ball. And when anyone keeps saying that Kikuchi doesn't fit DBZ like it does DB, I can only shake my head because that's a huge reach. They aren't vastly different shows.

[Bansho64]

And let's finally get to the dated remark. Who cares? It fit Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball isn't a contemporary show, it's timeless, and Faulconer was dated even when it was released. No one was listening to that sort of music.

To be honest I can never really see what's so "dated" to be honest about Kikuchi's music. Maybe it's because of how it sounds on the official releases? I can partly agree that it may sound a tiny bit dated because of the low quality of the Japanese audio track and the lack of the original audio masters. But even then, that doesn't stop it from being phenomenal music, and it's not even the music itself's fault. Those are just my two cents.

[Android 50]

As far as I can tell, that song you linked to is not the one that plays when he turns SS2. It's a tad better than the one that played, but nowhere as close to Spirit vs. Spirit, and it certainly overcome the truly awful VO.

after Ocean dub soundtrack. That latter actually was bland and truly forgettable, but I never paid any mind to it. Kikuchi's sounded dated to me as a kid and turned me off. Faulconer's was awesome and absolutely memorable.

The Ocean dub score was better than Faulconer's. The theme that plays when Goku arrives to save Gohan and Kuririn in both Saiyan and Freeza arcs gives me chills. And let's finally get to the dated remark. Who cares? It fit Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball isn't a contemporary show, it's timeless, and Faulconer was dated even when it was released. No one was listening to that sort of music.

Sure, many people do find it hard to come around to anything other than what they grew up with, but I'm not one of those. Even at 13, I heard the Faulconer synth as cheap and un-Dragon Ball. And when anyone keeps saying that Kikuchi doesn't fit DBZ like it does DB, I can only shake my head because that's a huge reach. They aren't vastly different shows.

I don't remember any of the Ocean Dubs soundtrack compared to Faulconer's lol. If you want to talk about forgettable that's the Ocean Dubs soundtrack for me. I can't recall a thing. And I don't see what's so awful about the eng VA. Definitely prefer it over kai dub, Sure the voice was a bit gruff and funi OG dub is cheesy but that's part of its charm.

[Kakacarrottop]

As far as I can tell, that song you linked to is not the one that plays when he turns SS2. It's a tad better than the one that played, but nowhere as close to Spirit vs. Spirit, and it certainly overcome the truly awful VO.

after Ocean dub soundtrack. That latter actually was bland and truly forgettable, but I never paid any mind to it. Kikuchi's sounded dated to me as a kid and turned me off. Faulconer's was awesome and absolutely memorable.

The Ocean dub score was better than Faulconer's. The theme that plays when Goku arrives to save Gohan and Kuririn in both Saiyan and Freeza arcs gives me chills. And let's finally get to the dated remark. Who cares? It fit Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball isn't a contemporary show, it's timeless, and Faulconer was dated even when it was released. No one was listening to that sort of music.

Sure, many people do find it hard to come around to anything other than what they grew up with, but I'm not one of those. Even at 13, I heard the Faulconer synth as cheap and un-Dragon Ball. And when anyone keeps saying that Kikuchi doesn't fit DBZ like it does DB, I can only shake my head because that's a huge reach. They aren't vastly different shows.

I don't remember any of the Ocean Dubs soundtrack compared to Faulconer's lol. If you want to talk about forgettable that's the Ocean Dubs soundtrack for me. I can't recall a thing. And I don't see what's so awful about the eng VA. Definitely prefer it over kai dub, Sure the voice was a bit gruff and funi OG dub is cheesy but that's part of its charm.

It's called "background music" for a reason. It doesn't have to be memorable Grammy award winning stuff to serve it's purpose. Ron Wasserman's soundtrack for the Ocean dub of the Saiyan/Namek Saga has much more of an organic quality compared to Faulconer, a guy who was asked by FUNimation to copy Wasserman.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

As far as I can tell, that song you linked to is not the one that plays when he turns SS2. It's a tad better than the one that played, but nowhere as close to Spirit vs. Spirit, and it certainly overcome the truly awful VO.

after Ocean dub soundtrack. That latter actually was bland and truly forgettable, but I never paid any mind to it. Kikuchi's sounded dated to me as a kid and turned me off. Faulconer's was awesome and absolutely memorable.

The Ocean dub score was better than Faulconer's. The theme that plays when Goku arrives to save Gohan and Kuririn in both Saiyan and Freeza arcs gives me chills. And let's finally get to the dated remark. Who cares? It fit Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball isn't a contemporary show, it's timeless, and Faulconer was dated even when it was released. No one was listening to that sort of music.

Sure, many people do find it hard to come around to anything other than what they grew up with, but I'm not one of those. Even at 13, I heard the Faulconer synth as cheap and un-Dragon Ball. And when anyone keeps saying that Kikuchi doesn't fit DBZ like it does DB, I can only shake my head because that's a huge reach. They aren't vastly different shows.

I don't remember any of the Ocean Dubs soundtrack compared to Faulconer's lol. If you want to talk about forgettable that's the Ocean Dubs soundtrack for me. I can't recall a thing. And I don't see what's so awful about the eng VA. Definitely prefer it over kai dub, Sure the voice was a bit gruff and funi OG dub is cheesy but that's part of its charm.

Being a bad product isn't charming to any of us who want a great product.

[ABED]

VO not VA. The voice over where Gohan talks about how 16 loved life and how he's slipping is god awful writing. Then there's Nadolny who is without a doubt one of the worst dub actors. There's no charm with that cheese. It even fails at camp. It's just dumb.

To be honest I can never really see what's so "dated" to be honest about Kikuchi's music. Maybe it's because of how it sounds on the official releases? I can partly agree that it may sound a tiny bit dated because of the low quality of the Japanese audio track and the lack of the original audio masters. But even then, that doesn't stop it from being phenomenal music, and it's not even the music itself's fault. Those are just my two cents.

Agreed, and even assuming Faulconer's score was more modern, it quickly becomes dates.

[Nejishiki]

Goku turning Super Saiyan should've been an ominous moment, but I don't get that at all from Faulconer's score.

For those that find Nozawa's voice off putting, I don't get why. Is it simply because it goes against what you expect?

There's definitely an ominous side to the scene, but I wouldn't say Goku turning into a Super Saiyan should've been an ominous moment. There's an intensity there I feel Yamamoto and Faulconer capture better.

Goku transforming into a Super Saiyan was definitely portrayed as ominous in the original story. We've all experienced it multiple times, so I'm sure it's difficult to account for initial feelings, but Goku acting as he did was not normal. He snapped. Actually, I have an anecdotal account as the first episodes of Dragon Ball I watched were those moments. To this day, the music escalating and Nozawa's sudden change of tone in her scream, supported by the Oozaru effect, as Goku completely turns into a Super Saiyan still manages to make me chill. It sounded monstrous. My position is merely supporting the integrity of the intended direction. I'm not implying I had problem with other interpretations because I'm not trying to turn it into that. I happen to feel particularly passionate about it being meant to be ominous.

[Android 50]

As far as I can tell, that song you linked to is not the one that plays when he turns SS2. It's a tad better than the one that played, but nowhere as close to Spirit vs. Spirit, and it certainly overcome the truly awful VO.

The Ocean dub score was better than Faulconer's. The theme that plays when Goku arrives to save Gohan and Kuririn in both Saiyan and Freeza arcs gives me chills. And let's finally get to the dated remark. Who cares? It fit Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball isn't a contemporary show, it's timeless, and Faulconer was dated even when it was released. No one was listening to that sort of music.

Sure, many people do find it hard to come around to anything other than what they grew up with, but I'm not one of those. Even at 13, I heard the Faulconer synth as cheap and un-Dragon Ball. And when anyone keeps saying that Kikuchi doesn't fit DBZ like it does DB, I can only shake my head because that's a huge reach. They aren't vastly different shows.

I don't remember any of the Ocean Dubs soundtrack compared to Faulconer's lol. If you want to talk about forgettable that's the Ocean Dubs soundtrack for me. I can't recall a thing. And I don't see what's so awful about the eng VA. Definitely prefer it over kai dub, Sure the voice was a bit gruff and funi OG dub is cheesy but that's part of its charm.

Being a bad product isn't charming to any of us who want a great product.

I don't see what makes it a bad product at all.

The camp and cheesiness of it really brings out its charm. Sorry if you don't see that and need a perfect copy of the japanese version.

[Bansho64]

I don't see what makes it a bad product at all.

Bad acting, bad translations, name changes, script changes, etc. It all adds up.

[Android 50]

VO not VA. The voice over where Gohan talks about how 16 loved life and how he's slipping is god awful writing. Then there's Nadolny who is without a doubt one of the worst dub actors. There's no charm with that cheese. It even fails at camp. It's just dumb.

I don't see what's so bad about any of that. It showed that Gohan cared for 16 and we all know 16 cared for nature and life so why was it such "god awful" writing?

[Bansho64]

I don't see what's so bad about any of that. It showed that Gohan cared for 16 and we all know 16 cared for nature and life so why was it such "god awful" writing?

But he didn't care for 16. He didn't even know the guy. The whole beautiful thing in that scene was Gohan's anger and pent up emotions all building up and finally being released in a flurry of spectacular power. It was all silence. Why even include that line? It makes no sense.

[ABED]

I don't see what makes it a bad product at all.

Bad acting, bad translations, name changes, script changes, etc. It all adds up.

The overall cheapness of it. Even the box art on the DVD's and VHS's was super cheap. It was just terrible screenshots.

I don't see what's so bad about any of that. It showed that Gohan cared for 16 and we all know 16 cared for nature and life so why was it such "god awful" writing?

It's on the nose for one and when you lose your control, do you monologue that you're slipping? No, you just snap. And he just met 16, he doesn't really know him, but the VO implies some familiarity between them. Gohan doesn't about 16, he just barely met him that day. Mostly, it's all on the nose. The audience doesn't need it to be said out loud to understand what's going on in Gohan's head. Less is more.

[nite_jay]

VO not VA. The voice over where Gohan talks about how 16 loved life and how he's slipping is god awful writing. Then there's Nadolny who is without a doubt one of the worst dub actors. There's no charm with that cheese. It even fails at camp. It's just dumb.

I don't see what's so bad about any of that. It showed that Gohan cared for 16 and we all know 16 cared for nature and life so why was it such "god awful" writing?

The iffy writing came from the manga with Gohan and 16 , but adding a speech talking about caring and loving somebody you don't know just made things a lot dumber.

[Android 50]

I don't see what's so bad about any of that. It showed that Gohan cared for 16 and we all know 16 cared for nature and life so why was it such "god awful" writing?

But he didn't care for 16. He didn't even know the guy. The whole beautiful thing in that scene was Gohan's anger and pent up emotions all building up and finally being released in a flurry of spectacular power. It was all silence. Why even include that line? It makes no sense.

He had to care for him to some extent to snap like he did. He might not have loved the guy but he was a comrade in arms against Cell and that was enough to set him off.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I don't see what's so bad about any of that. It showed that Gohan cared for 16 and we all know 16 cared for nature and life so why was it such "god awful" writing?

But he didn't care for 16. He didn't even know the guy. The whole beautiful thing in that scene was Gohan's anger and pent up emotions all building up and finally being released in a flurry of spectacular power. It was all silence. Why even include that line? It makes no sense.

He had to care for him to some extent to snap like he did. He might not have loved the guy but he was a comrade in arms against Cell and that was enough to set him off.

No, he literally didn't know 16 at all.

[Deathbringer]

i'll admit i'm joining in with the slightly off topic conversation now (or maybe everything that is needed to be said about the topic has already been said?) but the reasoning of saying that "Androids + aliens = synth score is more fitting than an orchestral score" doesn't really work, does that mean that if Star Wars and Star Trek had a bleak sounding techno synth score it would be more fitting than the existing ones?

Also (and this is slightly more on-topic) if someone watched Dragon Ball all the way through and enjoyed the music there and then immediately started Dragon Ball Z with Kikuchi score after it wouldn't make much sense for them to suddenly go "oh god this doesn't fit anymore, and it's not very memorable either", what I'm saying is if people enjoy Kikuchi part 1 there's no reason to not enjoy Kikuchi part 2, he certainly didn't get worse between DB and DBZ seeing as DBZ started airing immediately the next week in the same time slot and everything. I know that the Saiyan arc is very very different to the Hunt for the Dragon Balls arc but it has the same serious tone that the Piccolo Jr arc had and if the music fits fine there it should fit fine with the Saiyan arc.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The only reason people feel Faulconer fits DBZ better than Kikuchi is because that's what a lot of the fanbase is used to. Star Wars is an interesting comparison (as it is with many other things DB) as I'm sure if George Lucas imposed a replacement score on the special editions and the original version with the John Williams score was not made the default track on home releases, or even rereleased at all a lot of people would have nostalgia for the other score and call the original "dated". Although I don't think Lucas would go that far, despite all the bizzare changes he made. DB and Star Wars are both meant to be mysterious, epic, fantasy tales, Kikuchi and Williams fit each of them perfectly, there's nothing out of place, they were made exactly as TOEI and Lucasfilm rightly intended.

Back to the main topic, Nozawa is the reason the Japanese version grew on me. I have no problem with Schemmel's latest work as Goku, but Nozawa just has it all and gets the character like no one else. It may be easier for some people to get if they start with the original Dragon Ball, but Nozawa IS Goku.

[fadeddreams5]

after Ocean dub soundtrack. That latter actually was bland and truly forgettable, but I never paid any mind to it. Kikuchi's sounded dated to me as a kid and turned me off. Faulconer's was awesome and absolutely memorable.

The Ocean dub score was better than Faulconer's. The theme that plays when Goku arrives to save Gohan and Kuririn in both Saiyan and Freeza arcs gives me chills. And let's finally get to the dated remark. Who cares? It fit Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball isn't a contemporary show, it's timeless, and Faulconer was dated even when it was released. No one was listening to that sort of music.

Sure, many people do find it hard to come around to anything other than what they grew up with, but I'm not one of those. Even at 13, I heard the Faulconer synth as cheap and un-Dragon Ball. And when anyone keeps saying that Kikuchi doesn't fit DBZ like it does DB, I can only shake my head because that's a huge reach. They aren't vastly different shows.

Curious questions, did you ever rewatch the dub with Faulconer's score after listening it to it once, or did you hate it so much you never watched it again after the '90s or early 2000s?

The dated remark was in regards to how I heard Kikuchi's track as a kid. It doesn't make sense to call the quality of his music "dated," I suppose, but it has that 1960s martial arts movie sound to it that, intentional or not, is pretty off-putting and boring to me. Honestly, I would like DB (original anime) a lot more if it didn't have that score, regardless of how "fitting" it is. In DBZ, it's kind of worse, especially when you're first exposed to certain scenes with Faulconer's score, and just expect some of the intensity to transfer over (e.g. Vegeta going SSJ or the entire SSJ2 Gohan vs Cell beam struggle). It's just a matter a preference me and several other people share. For the record, I much prefer some Japanese tracks in certain scenes too (e.g. Trunks going SSJ, Bardock attacking, Gohan going SSJ2, and Goku sacrificing himself). =P

[ABED]

I've seen it at least twice all the way through, once during the TV broadcast and once on home video. What do you have against 60s martial arts movie scores?

You hear intensity from Faulconer, I hear cheap synth from some guy's basement that won't stop playing and clearly doesn't get its source material.

[Zenkai]

Maybe some people prefer watching without having to stare at the bottom of the screen and read.....