"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by alakazam^ » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:50 am

HeroR wrote:I don't care whose take it is. Them killing gods and it not alerting anyone simply doesn't make sense to me. If the gods are this apathetic, why bother killing most of them?
Because some will get involved and others won't? The Kaious haven't been killed, as far as we know.

My point is you can't dismiss all of this as not making sense because you don't know what, if anything, is happening elsewhere with Zen'ou, the attendants and whomever. It's an ongoing arc, they're not stopped in time.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:55 am

dbgtFO wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Amazing the things you can pick up on when you actually pay attention. Seriously, half of the shit I've heard about the Z-sword here and on Twitter comes from people skimming the pages. Especially how Dabura incinerates it after he turns it to stone.
Indeed, even people on here being confused about Zamasu talking to Kaioshin, thinking it took place in Trunks' timeline.. :roll:
Guys come on, silliness like that is exactly why Zamasu wants to exterminate us!
I laughed so bad at this lol, but seriously I don't think something like "Black killed all Kaioshins in the future timeline" could work in the anime :think:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:23 am

alakazam^ wrote:
HeroR wrote:I don't care whose take it is. Them killing gods and it not alerting anyone simply doesn't make sense to me. If the gods are this apathetic, why bother killing most of them?
Because some will get involved and others won't? The Kaious haven't been killed, as far as we know.

My point is you can't dismiss all of this as not making sense because you don't know what, if anything, is happening elsewhere with Zen'ou, the attendants and whomever. It's an ongoing arc, they're not stopped in time.
I am am demises nothing. I just don't buy this plot line until proven otherwise.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:52 am

HeroR wrote:I am am demises nothing. I just don't buy this plot line until proven otherwise.
Please review your own (and others'...!) posts before responding. This is a bit of a mess.

Isn't it a bit strange to say you don't buy the plot of something until you know every single detail? I mean, that's the point of a story: to tell you a story. If you have every plot point and minuscule detail ahead of time, what's the point in being told a story?

I think you're confusing story beats that you don't like with "this story is still being told and I don't know everything yet". That's a HUGE difference, and I worry people conflate the two.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:05 am

VegettoEX wrote:
HeroR wrote:I am am demises nothing. I just don't buy this plot line until proven otherwise.
Please review your own (and others'...!) posts before responding. This is a bit of a mess.

Isn't it a bit strange to say you don't buy the plot of something until you know every single detail? I mean, that's the point of a story: to tell you a story. If you have every plot point and minuscule detail ahead of time, what's the point in being told a story?

I think you're confusing story beats that you don't like with "this story is still being told and I don't know everything yet". That's a HUGE difference, and I worry people conflate the two.
I don't see the problem with not buying a particular plot point given the current information. Maybe it will be explain in a way that I said, 'okay, that does makes sense'. As of now, it isn't that I don't like that Black killed all the gods. On paper, it makes sense. It's when you think deeply about it and you wonder how they pulled this off without any of the god attendances doing anything that I can't wrapped my mind around. The best explanation given is that everyone is just that apathetic.

But it's only my opinion and I am not shoving what I think down anyone's throat. So what is the big deal here?
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:57 am

I feel like the only reason this is an issue is that it was presented in manga. It will likely be in the anime too when they get to that point and likely not have the explanation yet either. It's supposed to be a mystery at this point. It's like complaining that we don't know who Goku Black is yet so this story arc is the worst yet...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mikey4111 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:18 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
mikey4111 wrote:I feel like this suggests that Gohan was a SS2 (low tier) against Dabura. Trunks has to be at the peak of SS power after all that training with Supreme Kai and using the Z sword and he still got completely owned by Dabura. A rusty Gohan who hasn't trained in 7 years was able to fight even with him. Just pointing that out.
Keep in mind that we never actually saw Dabra's full power in the original work, Boo killed him before we got the chance. If you consider it an inconsistency, it's a soft one at best.
Dabura used his full power after Gohan told him to stop holding back. Anyways, this chapter was awesome. I would love a history of trunks 2 movie. And if they ever do they should show Trunks bond with Kibito and Supreme Kai over time so when they do die it'll make more sense for Trunks to get angry and transform.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:02 pm

Has anyone else noticed that Black isn't wearing a ring at all in the manga? He takes note of how troublesome Saiyan's are so could he be leaving to whatever his base of operations is to get a Time Ring and follow Trunks back? Something to think about for people who assumed Goku vs Black might not happen in the present day.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:06 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Has anyone else noticed that Black isn't wearing a ring at all in the manga? He takes note of how troublesome Saiyan's are so could he be leaving to whatever his base of operations is to get a Time Ring and follow Trunks back? Something to think about for people who assumed Goku vs Black might not happen in the present day.
He wasn't wearing it at first in the show either, it could just be a mistake.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:13 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Has anyone else noticed that Black isn't wearing a ring at all in the manga? He takes note of how troublesome Saiyan's are so could he be leaving to whatever his base of operations is to get a Time Ring and follow Trunks back? Something to think about for people who assumed Goku vs Black might not happen in the present day.
He wasn't wearing it at first in the show either, it could just be a mistake.
Toyotaro has shown himself to be pretty good with finer details so far. I doubt he'd write three chapters in a row without him having the ring at all. The anime did do this admittedly and then he randomly has it when he tries to find Trunks as if it was always there with him.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:16 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Has anyone else noticed that Black isn't wearing a ring at all in the manga? He takes note of how troublesome Saiyan's are so could he be leaving to whatever his base of operations is to get a Time Ring and follow Trunks back? Something to think about for people who assumed Goku vs Black might not happen in the present day.
That seems incredibly redundant, unless his base of operations provides further info and a better method to temporally go back to the past and return than the anime gave us.
Half of the reason for going into the past of the anime is already gone, Beerus and Whis recognizing his ki to make the Zamasu connection. The other one, Black powering up due to fighting Goku might be different too, since this Black seems much stronger already than Anime Black at the same crossroad.

I think Toyotarõ will just go in another direction, the manga might turn out to be a lot different than the anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by derpgoku » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:33 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Has anyone else noticed that Black isn't wearing a ring at all in the manga? He takes note of how troublesome Saiyan's are so could he be leaving to whatever his base of operations is to get a Time Ring and follow Trunks back? Something to think about for people who assumed Goku vs Black might not happen in the present day.
He never wore it on the anime in the begining iether,the ting gets created later.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:44 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:For starters, there's no set date for the battle with Dabra. Using Bobbidi's statement of "over 10 years" as only 10 years put the event in AGE 784, which is the same year Bluma first finished up the time machine (and some other problems mentioned further below).
My bad for not checking the translations again while making the timeline. I hadn't noticed that Babidi said "over 10 years", and thought he simply said 10 years.
Which leads to the second point, Cell was defeated in AGE 788 (the only year ever actually mentioned in the manga). Thus, everything else extrapolated from that are off too.
I only used the manga as a reference, but I had forgotten that Age 788 was mentioned. Seems like Daizenshuu managed to find a way to make the number fit without making an inconsistency.
For everything else,... Nothing in the manga suggests that we've moved beyond AGE 779 (which I honestly prefer), but I added a two year range to account for the anime's presumed placement just to be safe.
The manga implies that FnF, U6, and F. Trunks arcs happen very close to each other, maybe even within the same month. In the beginning of U6 arc, they talk about the events from FnF as if they are very recent, and in F. Trunks arc they likewise talk as if the U6 arc events are very recent as well. Plus, going to Age 780 has to deal with Bra not been born yet, and Trunks not having grown up yet like Future Trunks did.
[spoiler]AGE 764
Mecha Freeza & King Cold attack Earth. Goku returns & kills them. Goku later dies from a heart attack because of a virus.

AGE 766
Trunks is born.

AGE 767
Artificial Humans #17 & #18 begin their attack, killing Vegeta, Piccolo, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chaozu. Gohan is the sole survivor. Pilaf, Shu, and Mai gather the Dragon Balls to wish for youth, and turn into babies as a result, and thus the Shenlong grands his final wish shortly before Piccolo & Kami die.

AGE 780
Trunks has begun training with Gohan, but even though he has turned into a Super Saiyan, Gohan can easily handle him with one arm without turning into a Super Saiyan. Gohan, who is at around the same level as Goku was before he died, dies in a battle with the Artificial Humans.

AGE 784
Bulma completes work on a time machine. Trunks, who has reached the same level that Gohan was before his death, travels 20 years into the past, to AGE 764. Trunks returns after giving Goku his heart medicine and prepares for his return trip and 8 months later.

AGE 785
Now that the time machine has stored enough energy for another round trip, Trunks departs for AGE 767 to help Goku and company. Having obtained power on par with Vegeta's at the Cell Games through his training inside the Room of Spirit and Time for 2 days, Trunks returns & kills the Artificial Humans that plagued his timeline. Having learned about Cell in the past, Trunks begins waiting three years for Cell to show himself.

AGE 788
Trunks prepares to travel back to AGE 771 in order to inform his friends that he defeated the Artificial Humans, but as he expected, Cell appears to kill him & steal his time machine. Trunks easily kills Cell.

AGE 788-795
Trunks trains with Kaioshin & Kibito using the Z-Sword, and obtains power greater than Super Saiyan Gohan's from the Cell Games. Dabra & Babidi attempt to revive Boo. Super Saiyan Trunks doesn't stand a chance against Dabra, but after Kibito gets killed by Dabra, Trunks finally becomes a Super Saiyan 2 and overpowers Dabra. Kaioshin assists Trunks to kill Dabra & Babidi, but eventually dies from his injuries, which kills the Hakaishin Beerus. Goku Black chooses Trunks' timeline to attack because Beerus, the most troublesome Hakaishin, is dead in this world. Trunks isn't satisfied with the power Super Saiyan 2 gave him, so he keeps training hard for the next years.

AGE 795-797
Goku Black attacks Earth in order to eliminate the humans, after having eliminated all the Kaioshin from all other universes which killed all the Hakaishin, and after having eliminated the humans from countless other planets. Trunks is unable to defeat Black.

AGE 796-798
Trunks founds Bulma dead from Black's hands. Trunks has trained to his utmost limits from ever since he returned from the past, but still can't stand a chance against Black. Having enough energy for a one-way trip with the Time Machine, Trunks goes back to AGE 779-781 of the parallel world to get help from his friends after Mai seemingly dies to help him escape. At this point, Super Saiyan 2 Trunks is almost as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku.[/spoiler]
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:11 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The manga implies that FnF, U6, and F. Trunks arcs happen very close to each other, maybe even within the same month. In the beginning of U6 arc, they talk about the events from FnF as if they are very recent, and in F. Trunks arc they likewise talk as if the U6 arc events are very recent as well. Plus, going to Age 780 has to deal with Bra not been born yet, and Trunks not having grown up yet like Future Trunks did.
Like I said, it's all a precautionary thing. Because we aren't given very many cues on when events take place like we were in the original manga. Even less for Super's manga, since Toyotaro skipped "F" in his version. So even though there's nothing actually suggesting it, I don't want to rule out the idea that the events in the manga might be intended to mirror their placement in the anime since it is officially the main product. I vastly prefer that the manga seems to be keeping things more tightly knit though, so it's still just a safety net.

Even then, if you want to ignore the anime situation, you still have to consider if you want to use supplemental info (Bluma's birthday, when Pan would have to be concieved and born, etc). If you do, a lot of the these events are forced into the August-December portion of the year. So even if the tournament is only a month after Freeza, and Black a month after the tournament, it's possible we could be rolling over into the start of the next calendar year. Of course, I'm not suggesting that we have to use the supplemental info. Again, I'm just covering for it.

(Though Bra's birth year is supplemental too...)
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sailorspazz » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:47 pm

Though I've kind of fallen behind on the manga since it started falling behind the anime, I felt I needed to catch up ASAP since I kept seeing discussions relating to the new chapter's content. It was surprising that the chapter devoted much more time to Trunks dealing with the Bobbidi threat than the anime. It was nice to see that, though, letting Trunks have his moment to shine (and in his future, he's taken out all the major threats much more efficiently compared to all the other Saiyans in our timeline!)

The anime still hasn't even brought up Universe 7 Kaioushin being dead in Trunks' future, and certainly no word about all Kaioushin and Gods of Destruction being killed...I do agree with the sentiment that it seems strange Black could kill all those gods, yet none of the higher gods would realize or do something to stop him. I guess we'll have to see what sort of explanation is given, because right now it seems like a stretch to me...

I feel Zamasu and Gokuu still have to meet at some point if Black is Zamasu's creation (which we still don't know, but is the theory I'm going with at this point). It wouldn't make much sense for him to create this destructive force based on the image of someone he only heard about in passing...I think they need to encounter each other at least once for it to feel more logical. Since Beerus and Whis talked about investigating gods who might turn evil, and the U7 Kaioushin has now met Zamasu, presumably they'll talk to each other and decide to visit Universe 10, even without the "Black and Zamasu have similar ki" connection shown in the anime. I'm interested to see how it all plays out, whether the causal loop is avoided or not, and continue wondering exactly how much detail Toriyama gave for this arc based on how much the anime and manga end up diverging.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:54 am

I like this manga so much, that I will completely ignore home release of Super and will buy the manga instead, as it will be released in english and add it next to the original manga I have already.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:10 pm

MCDaveG wrote:I like this manga so much, that I will completely ignore home release of Super and will buy the manga instead, as it will be released in english and add it next to the original manga I have already.
I would consider it if some parts didn't have to be rushed through so hastily, or if RoF hadn't been entirely skipped. The scheduling of the manga makes it hard to justify buying. I'll still get it, but it'll feel like a waste no matter how much I love it.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:26 pm

I've been noticing a particular weekness in the manga, its storytelling feels like just a compilation of events happening that just happens. It's the same feeling that the Future Trunks Special chapter from the original manga gave, I remember MistareFusion/GafferTape making a similar commnent(to the Trunks chapter, not the DBS manga), he described it better than I could with my own words.

So far the current Arc has been avoiding it for the most part, might the extended page count.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeztin » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:47 pm

I think it's good for Beerus to have a weak-point, if he had no weak points then there would be no use challenging him since he's always going to be stronger than everybody. I'm glad that the weak-point is more tied to a kaioshin rather than himself. It just goes to show that even Gods can die in the manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:33 pm

Xeztin wrote:I think it's good for Beerus to have a weak-point, if he had no weak points then there would be no use challenging him since he's always going to be stronger than everybody. I'm glad that the weak-point is more tied to a kaioshin rather than himself. It just goes to show that even Gods can die in the manga.
Well, like they didn't in the original? :)

Anyway, even though I think it is good for Hakaishins and Kaioshins have this link to bring balance to the force universe, I still would prefer Beerus to be surpassed and defeated in combat
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