"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

After re-reading the chapter, I've just realised something, Goku Black is kind off an idiot. I mean, he was watching over Future Trunks, Supreme Kai, and Kibito battling Babidi and Dabra and he didn't think to kill Future Trunks after he had finished off Dabra? Seriously, why the hell didn't Goku Black atomise Future Trunks there and then? It would have saved him so much trouble. I think Goku Black grasped the idiot ball hard in that moment.

Your assuming Black was stronger than Trunks back then.

[Lord Beerus]

After re-reading the chapter, I've just realised something, Goku Black is kind off an idiot. I mean, he was watching over Future Trunks, Supreme Kai, and Kibito battling Babidi and Dabra and he didn't think to kill Future Trunks after he had finished off Dabra? Seriously, why the hell didn't Goku Black atomise Future Trunks there and then? It would have saved him so much trouble. I think Goku Black grasped the idiot ball hard in that moment.

Your assuming Black was stronger than Trunks back then.

But... he was. For intents and purposes, there is no confirmation or any kind of hint that Black ever trained. When he kicked Future Trunks' ass in their first battle, there is no indication given that Black was stronger than he was that time than when Future Trunks battled Babidi and Dabra.

[TheMikado]

After re-reading the chapter, I've just realised something, Goku Black is kind off an idiot. I mean, he was watching over Future Trunks, Supreme Kai, and Kibito battling Babidi and Dabra and he didn't think to kill Future Trunks after he had finished off Dabra? Seriously, why the hell didn't Goku Black atomise Future Trunks there and then? It would have saved him so much trouble. I think Goku Black grasped the idiot ball hard in that moment.

Your assuming Black was stronger than Trunks back then.

But... he was. For intents and purposes, there is no confirmation or any kind of hint that Black ever trained. When he kicked Future Trunks' ass in their first battle, there is no indication given that Black was stronger than he was that time than when Future Trunks battled Babidi and Dabra.

We know Black gets stronger as he fights and we also know he had done something to get rid of all the other Kaioshin in all the universes before he came back to Trunks last. He wouldn't need to train to get stronger if he's constantly fighting. It could have been the reason he came back for Trunks later. Who knows.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Your assuming Black was stronger than Trunks back then.

But... he was. For intents and purposes, there is no confirmation or any kind of hint that Black ever trained. When he kicked Future Trunks' ass in their first battle, there is no indication given that Black was stronger than he was that time than when Future Trunks battled Babidi and Dabra.

We know Black gets stronger as he fights and we also know he had done something to get rid of all the other Kaioshin in all the universes before he came back to Trunks last. He wouldn't need to train to get stronger if he's constantly fighting. It could have been the reason he came back for Trunks later. Who knows.

Actually, we don't know if Black gets stronger as he fights in the manga. Remember, it's a totally separate continuity from the show, Toyotaro could take a totally different approach to Black's power.

[TheMikado]

That may be true as well but it's difficult to remember if that was mentioned in the manga or not. I guess we would have to wait and see then, but i would bet Black at that time was Zamasu level which likely wouldn't have been enough to confidently take out Trunks.

[ryou766]

OK.. I'm beginning to understand what people were talking about when they said Toyotaro goes overboard with the homages.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
So far all these parallels have been between Future Trunks and Gohan, so maybe Toyotaro is trying to relay a "like master, like student" message?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

OK.. I'm beginning to understand what people were talking about when they said Toyotaro goes overboard with the homages.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
So far all these parallels have been between Future Trunks and Gohan, so maybe Toyotaro is trying to relay a "like master, like student" message?

I assume that he's using those references to keep up a certain quality. His talent isn't near Toriyama at his prime, and when he went by Toyble, he would often trace, or at least use Toriyama's art as a rough model for his own drawings.

[TheMikado]

OK.. I'm beginning to understand what people were talking about when they said Toyotaro goes overboard with the homages.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
So far all these parallels have been between Future Trunks and Gohan, so maybe Toyotaro is trying to relay a "like master, like student" message?

I assume that he's using those references to keep up a certain quality. His talent isn't near Toriyama at his prime, and when he went by Toyble, he would often trace, or at least use Toriyama's art as a rough model for his own drawings.

One of Toyotaro's best strengths is his ability to replicat Toriyamas style. Hopefully as he is given more time and pages he will begin to step out of his shadow and develop more unique aspects and iconic shots. I also think we may get a few this arc as he creates new material.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

OK.. I'm beginning to understand what people were talking about when they said Toyotaro goes overboard with the homages.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
So far all these parallels have been between Future Trunks and Gohan, so maybe Toyotaro is trying to relay a "like master, like student" message?

I assume that he's using those references to keep up a certain quality. His talent isn't near Toriyama at his prime, and when he went by Toyble, he would often trace, or at least use Toriyama's art as a rough model for his own drawings.

One of Toyotaro's best strengths is his ability to replicat Toriyamas style. Hopefully as he is given more time and pages he will begin to step out of his shadow and develop more unique aspects and iconic shots. I also think we may get a few this arc as he creates new material.

As good as he is at his copy-method, I want Toyotaro to improve his own style.

Have you seen those hands? Eww...

[Duo]

His drawing of Vegeta going Blue against Hit was, as far as I know, not based on a prior Toriyama panel, and looked fantastic. Just because a panel here and there makes reference doesn't mean that's ALL he's done. Cherry picking does not an effective point make.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

His drawing of Vegeta going Blue against Hit was, as far as I know, not based on a prior Toriyama panel, and looked fantastic. Just because a panel here and there makes reference doesn't mean that's ALL he's done. Cherry picking does not an effective point make.

I never said that's all he's ever done, I'm saying that he does it a lot, and it's very noticeable.

I mentioned that I want him to hone his own style, you gave an example of where that would be a good thing. If he can draw original frames and make them impressive, he needs to work on that more, rather than using "hommages" (tracing old images) to put out a good product.

[kinisking]

I never said that's all he's ever done, I'm saying that he does it a lot, and it's very noticeable.

I mentioned that I want him to hone his own style, you gave an example of where that would be a good thing. If he can draw original frames and make them impressive, he needs to work on that more, rather than using "hommages" (tracing old images) to put out a good product.

Exactly. It's a problem that the manga has.

The problem is it doesn't even compare to this:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Super often feels like DBZ lite. Which depending on your personal tastes will give different levels of enjoyment.

[spoiler][/spoiler]
This is the best drawn imo.


[spoiler][/spoiler]
is worse than
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[TheMikado]

^ huh what?

[FortuneSSJ]

-Toyotaro homages-

Toyotaro really goes overboard with his homages to old material, which already became annoying to me too.
One or two homages are welcome, when you start doing it most of the time I start questioning your originality. He should stop it that.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

While I agree that I wish he'd cut back on them, they also don't bother me nearly as much as the anime's do. They're usually well implemented and being a manga, they don't really linger. It's usually a panel here or there and they're only there for as long as you choose to focus on said panel, but you don't really have much say in the matter when the anime decides to devote 10 minutes to recreating Vegeta's first Final Flash.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

While I agree that I wish he'd cut back on them, they also don't bother me nearly as much as the anime's do. They're usually well implemented and being a manga, they don't really linger. It's usually a panel here or there and they're only there for as long as you choose to focus on said panel, but you don't really have much say in the matter when the anime decides to devote 10 minutes to recreating Vegeta's first Final Flash.

I don't think we're looking at it from the same angle. Sure, the show shouldn't try to re-create old scenes on a regular basis, but even when it does, it's not literally traced and just slightly modified.

[HeroR]

While I agree that I wish he'd cut back on them, they also don't bother me nearly as much as the anime's do. They're usually well implemented and being a manga, they don't really linger. It's usually a panel here or there and they're only there for as long as you choose to focus on said panel, but you don't really have much say in the matter when the anime decides to devote 10 minutes to recreating Vegeta's first Final Flash.

I don't think we're looking at it from the same angle. Sure, the show shouldn't try to re-create old scenes on a regular basis, but even when it does, it's not literally traced and just slightly modified.

How I feel too. When an anime recreate a scene from a manga, they had to not only redraw it, but animated it as well. That takes more time and devotion over tracing a panel, which is considered lazy by many manga artists for good reason.

Also, the anime in most cases are adaptations of the manga, so it makes sense for them to put the work in to recreate key scenes from the manga. The Super manga is only adapting an outline and the artist can do what they want, so they're far less excuse to trace from the original manga. Especially when given a month, when other manga artists have weekly deadlines and don't trace nearly as much.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The anime's are usually awful damn similar most of the time, too.

[spoiler]








[/spoiler]
Not too different from Toyotaro's, because his usually aren't traced perfectly, and are adapted for different characters and the like.

[HeroR]

The anime's are usually awful damn similar most of the time, too.

[spoiler]








[/spoiler]
Not too different from Toyotaro's, because his usually aren't traced perfectly, and are adapted for different characters and the like.

They still had to animated it, which is naturally harder than copying poses. Also, it was meant to be a homage since this was the first time in what twenty years that Vegeta used the Final Flash. Also, not every episode of the anime have those type of shots, while almost every chapter of the manga does.

[jplaya2023]

how come no one sensed black being there? trunks who can sense ki and the supreme kaiou who can sense god ki... :crazy: