Dragonball Z was not that good in the beginning..

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Go back to my Kaio-sama example. He refuses to accept it for a minute. He moved on very quickly.

I checked and he did call himself as a Saiyan when King Kai mentioned his planet had gravity as great as Planet Vegeta. Still didn't embrace it his heritage.

He IS his father. He was all his father's memories and abilities, plus, Piccolo did in fact try to do what he/his father tried before. Piccolo's odd, he's a reincarnation/son, so everyone's perceptions of him are justifiable. Goku's perceptions of Piccolo are simply that he's a strong warrior. He's different from his dad, but only becomes so later on. He wasn't some misunderstood person who was persecuted so he turns to evil, which is what you seem to imply.

Gohan was told by Goku that Piccolo wasn't nearly as evil as his father which is most likely why he was cool with feeding Piccolo a senzu since he knew he wouldn't do shit. It was also stated somewhere Piccolo hadn't kill anyone prior to the tournament and even had normal conversations with people.

I don't think he successfully killed anyone, but he certainly tried to kill Goku and the audience at the 23rd Budokai.

[Attitudefan]

Except he blew up most of the island(s) (TWICE) when fighting Goku potentially killing hundreds if not thousands of people and animals.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Except he blew up most of the island(s) (TWICE) when fighting Goku potentially killing hundreds if not thousands of people and animals.

I don't remember that, but I haven't read it in a while. I would check my handy dandy manga, but it's packed up for my moving tomorrow.

[Attitudefan]

Except he blew up most of the island(s) (TWICE) when fighting Goku potentially killing hundreds if not thousands of people and animals.

I don't remember that, but I haven't read it in a while. I would check my handy dandy manga, but it's packed up for my moving tomorrow.

His first blast was redirected by Goku blowing up parts of the island in the background (possibly have blown up more/other islands too, but I can't remember the exact details). Piccolo also blew up pretty much of the rest of the island that the tournament was held on for his second blast. The whole island was leveled to dirt and dust.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Except he blew up most of the island(s) (TWICE) when fighting Goku potentially killing hundreds if not thousands of people and animals.

I don't remember that, but I haven't read it in a while. I would check my handy dandy manga, but it's packed up for my moving tomorrow.

His first blast was redirected by Goku blowing up parts of the island in the background (possibly have blown up more/other islands too, but I can't remember the exact details). Piccolo also blew up pretty much of the rest of the island that the tournament was held on for his second blast. The whole island was leveled to dirt and dust.

Oh well, they blow things up all the time, and for all we know they haven't hurt anyone yet. Were the tournaments held on a Sunday?

[Attitudefan]

I don't remember that, but I haven't read it in a while. I would check my handy dandy manga, but it's packed up for my moving tomorrow.

His first blast was redirected by Goku blowing up parts of the island in the background (possibly have blown up more/other islands too, but I can't remember the exact details). Piccolo also blew up pretty much of the rest of the island that the tournament was held on for his second blast. The whole island was leveled to dirt and dust.

Oh well, they blow things up all the time, and for all we know they haven't hurt anyone yet. Were the tournaments held on a Sunday?

"Too bad it's Sunday... Those buildings would have been filled up tomorrow"

On topic, I really think the Saiyan arc filler was not even that long. When watching the arc again consecutively I was surprised how enjoyable the filler actually was. Every moment felt important or had some emotional impact. I really enjoyed the orphan episode a lot. It was quite emotionally charged. What surprised me was that it was over before I knew it and wanted more When watching the Saban dub again from the Rock the Dragon set, it was even shorter, and actually quite a nice pace... maybe too quick.


The Saiyan arc filler fills in the gaps, and actually weaves a narrative giving the impression that a year really does pass. In the manga and Kai, they skip nearly a whole year; and to me, that hurts the build up, it is detrimental to the narrative. Watching it on TV back in the day, it really did feel like a year waiting and was like being part of the journey. That's a feeling, I am absolutely certain, the anime directors were going for. It's the FEELING (for the audience) of it being a year that adds to the build up.

In Kai, that build up is non existent. Actually, fast pacing is a problem in too many shows today. Non stop wall to wall music has actually become a norm in modern anime. Ironic, since one of old school fans' biggest complaints about dubs were the wall-to-wall music. The art of build up and slow pacing is dead in most main stream media from my perspective. Will we ever see the nuanced, tension filled face offs like in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly? Kunzait_83 said it best. Thank you for that post.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

His first blast was redirected by Goku blowing up parts of the island in the background (possibly have blown up more/other islands too, but I can't remember the exact details). Piccolo also blew up pretty much of the rest of the island that the tournament was held on for his second blast. The whole island was leveled to dirt and dust.

Oh well, they blow things up all the time, and for all we know they haven't hurt anyone yet. Were the tournaments held on a Sunday?

"Too bad it's Sunday... Those buildings would have been filled up tomorrow"

On topic, I really think the Saiyan arc filler was not even that long. When watching the arc again consecutively I was surprised how enjoyable the filler actually was. Every moment felt important or had some emotional impact. I really enjoyed the orphan episode a lot. It was quite emotionally charged. What surprised me was that it was over before I knew it and wanted more When watching the Saban dub again from the Rock the Dragon set, it was even shorter, and actually quite a nice pace... maybe too quick.


The Saiyan arc filler fills in the gaps, and actually weaves a narrative giving the impression that a year really does pass. In the manga and Kai, they skip nearly a whole year; and to me, that hurts the build up, it is detrimental to the narrative. Watching it on TV back in the day, it really did feel like a year waiting and was like being part of the journey. That's a feeling, I am absolutely certain, the anime directors were going for. It's the FEELING (for the audience) of it being a year that adds to the build up.

In Kai, that build up is non existent. Actually, fast pacing is a problem in too many shows today. Non stop wall to wall music has actually become a norm in modern anime. Ironic, since one of old school fans' biggest complaints about dubs were the wall-to-wall music. The art of build up and slow pacing is dead in most main stream media from my perspective. Will we ever see the nuanced, tension filled face offs like in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly? Kunzait_83 said it best. Thank you for that post.

That just about sums up my feelings on the Saiyan Arc. It goes further than me, too. Although I wasn't able to watch back when it was first airing (I was busy, preparing for my eventual birth 3 years later), my sentiments line up 100%.

[Attitudefan]

I would just like to add one last thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3c9ngwHghg

Watch this clip to show how Dragon Ball is heavily inspired by Spaghetti Westerns as well. Note the wide angle shots leading to the face off, establishing the setting. Also note the extreme close ups and zoom ins towards the eyes. Additionally, the flashbacks that remind the audience of what has lead up to this final confrontation. It absolutely reminds me of Dragon Ball. An example would be Goku confronting Turles for the last time or how Goku meets Freeza (and gets the first hit). Additionally, the cut away reaction shots of side characters expressing their emotions to what just happened is very common in Dragon Ball.

Also, the music is very reminiscent to Kikuchi's score, which no doubt, I believe was inspired by the old Spaghetti Westerns of the 1960s.

This is an art lost in modern film and animation. Everything has to have a shaky cam, too much music rather than strategically placed music, and lacks the static shots of the past. Plus, the Spaghetti Westerns were pioneers in the juxtaposing of extremely wide to extremely close shots. Dragon Ball succeeds in doing all these things in the original anime that these classic films did.

I think, how often does modern Dragon Ball have episodes where there is nearly no music, and most of the episode is filled with the sound of a desert wind? Most likely non-existent. Yet, classic Dragon Ball has a mix, with many episodes having wonderful pieces composed by Kikuchi, while other episodes are nearly silent (in musical pieces) except for the overpowering sound of the wind. THAT is missing in Kai.

EDIT:another clip of the same film, you have 3 minutes (if not more) of build up, much like Dragon Ball, for the payoff being only a second of action. While Dragon Ball used it for padding on many occasions, definitely many scenes in the anime were also intended and inspired by classic cinematography.

[ABED]

Gohan was told by Goku that Piccolo wasn't nearly as evil as his father which is most likely why he was cool with feeding Piccolo a senzu since he knew he wouldn't do shit. It was also stated somewhere Piccolo hadn't kill anyone prior to the tournament and even had normal conversations with people.

Goku has let bad guys go before. He didn't do it because he thought there was good in Piccolo. He explicitly gave him the senzu because he wanted a rival so he wouldn't get complacent and probably because Kami would've died had he not. Piccolo was trying to murder Goku and he destroyed the island.

I checked and he did call himself as a Saiyan when King Kai mentioned his planet had gravity as great as Planet Vegeta. Still didn't embrace it his heritage.

He didn't deny it either.

[Ozotto]

DBZ was amazing from episode one and onward.
If you watched it on TV, it was one of the best shows at the time.
Maybe by todays standards it's harder to watch, but back then top notch.
I still enjoy it to this day though.