Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Helios518]

Goku believed he would lose because his time using KKx10 SSB is limited, and he didn't have enough time to defeat Hit who had improved his Tokitobashi even further.

Even if it was limited Goku should be able to end Hit in one attack or at least do a great chunk of without Hit even blinking which is definitely not the case at all.

Goku did a lot more damage to Hit with one punch than Hit did with dozens of them.

He doesn't get stronger.

Again, we still see Goku throw a barrage of punches to Hit and Hit walks away from it and could still react to his speed which implies the exact opposite of what you're saying.

[brett wheeler]

the way its portrayed hit did get physically stronger, maby not to the degree of goku so thats why he didnt get one shot but he still took punches and walked away so he did get a lot stronger and if he got more than ( or even just ) 7* strength he would be way over beerus the only logical answer is he lost the boost

[ZombieVito]

We cannot ignore the last part of the match.

If Hit really got stronger, Goku would have been K.O. by his punches but he didn't. Goku also did a great deal of damage with one punch, more damage than Hit.

[Faisal Shourov]

So how strong is Black on a scale of 1-10 compared to Beerus? Toriyama said Goku was a 6 compared to Beerus 10

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Even if it was limited Goku should be able to end Hit in one attack or at least do a great chunk of without Hit even blinking which is definitely not the case at all.

Well, Goku disagrees with your opinion. He didn't believe he had enough time to end Hit, who kept improving his Tokitobashi, and had even matched KKx10 SSB with it by the end of their fight.

[TheMikado]

So how strong is Black on a scale of 1-10 compared to Beerus? Toriyama said Goku was a 6 compared to Beerus 10

That scale hasn't been valid for a long time.

[Helios518]

Even if it was limited Goku should be able to end Hit in one attack or at least do a great chunk of without Hit even blinking which is definitely not the case at all.

Well, Goku disagrees with your opinion. He didn't believe he had enough time to end Hit, who kept improving his Tokitobashi, and had even matched KKx10 SSB with it by the end of their fight.

Considering as KKx10, he threw many punches each one of those attacks should've oneshotted a SSJB tier character except it didn't to Hit. The only way Hit could be taking so much of those attacks and still catching up with Goku is if he's around that level

Also increasing Time-Skip doesn't magically increase normal speed and durability. If you had the 1minute Time-Skip do you really think you could activate it after a gun is fired and the bullet is in mid air going to you? Highly unlikely and Hit is you while Goku is the bullet in this situation.

[TheMikado]

The subs I read says he got stronger too, and from what I understand his ability is called "improvement" which seems like it doesn't just apply to his time skip but his strength as well.

[Rubens]

So how strong is Black on a scale of 1-10 compared to Beerus? Toriyama said Goku was a 6 compared to Beerus 10

That scale hasn't been valid for a long time.

Why?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Considering as KKx10, he threw many punches each one of those attacks should've oneshotted a SSJB tier character except it didn't to Hit. The only way Hit could be taking so much of those attacks and still catching up with Goku is if he's around that level

In the manga? Sure. But this is Toei's anime we are talking about, which has its own rules.

[ekrolo2]

So how strong is Black on a scale of 1-10 compared to Beerus? Toriyama said Goku was a 6 compared to Beerus 10

That scale hasn't been valid for a long time.

Why?

No mention of it is made of it in-universe like the movie did and KKX10 would make a much stronger Super Saiyan Blue Goku several times more powerful than Whis, never mind Beerus.

[Helios518]

Considering as KKx10, he threw many punches each one of those attacks should've oneshotted a SSJB tier character except it didn't to Hit. The only way Hit could be taking so much of those attacks and still catching up with Goku is if he's around that level

In the manga? Sure. But this is Toei's anime we are talking about, which has its own rules.

Own rules? We seen a normal SSJBKK Goku blitz regular Hit but later in the fight Hit is catching up with a SSJBKKx10 Goku which should be impossible unless you somehow believe KKx10 makes the person slower than regular KK.

[buutenks]

Considering as KKx10, he threw many punches each one of those attacks should've oneshotted a SSJB tier character except it didn't to Hit. The only way Hit could be taking so much of those attacks and still catching up with Goku is if he's around that level

In the manga? Sure. But this is Toei's anime we are talking about, which has its own rules.

Own rules? We seen a normal SSJBKK Goku blitz regular Hit but later in the fight Hit is catching up with a SSJBKKx10 Goku which should be impossible unless you somehow believe KKx10 makes the person slower than regular KK.

Or, Hit is just that awesome hehe

[ssbgoku]

to keep it really short about possible interpretation of ssbkk goku vs hit duel:

1) Out of universe explanation: Toei pulling his flashy move to increase sales or just for giggles and entertainment, maybe nostalgia.

2) In universe explanation:
- Goku was already tired and pretty beat up before he unleashed kaioken even times two, so he would be even 50% when he used kaiokenx10 to make him 5 times as strong as he would be on full power and fresh.
- Hit time skip ability to bypass durabiliity and make goku body destroy him from inside, or damage him at least
- Goku was holding back being afraid to not use all power decreasing effect of Kaioken multiplying thing
- Hit was using lethal techniques to destroy goku's stamina

Something like that or maybe all above combined.

[ekrolo2]

to keep it really short about possible interpretation of ssbkk goku vs hit duel:

1) Out of universe explanation: Toei pulling his flashy move to increase sales or just for giggles and entertainment, maybe nostalgia.

2) In universe explanation:
- Goku was already tired and pretty beat up before he unleashed kaioken even times two, so he would be even 50% when he used kaiokenx10 to make him 5 times as strong as he would be on full power and fresh.
- Hit time skip ability to bypass durabiliity and make goku body destroy him from inside, or damage him at least
- Goku was holding back being afraid to not use all power decreasing effect of Kaioken multiplying thing
- Hit was using lethal techniques to destroy goku's stamina

Something like that or maybe all above combined.

Out of universe is probably right, this fanbase has proven it majoritively loves getting its nostalgia boners sucked off.

In-universe are pretty iffy. Goku wasn't that badly damaged enough for his power to get cut to 90%+ and Hit never used lethal attacks as Goku recognized this and requested for the no killing rule to get dropped because of it. Hit's power potentially letting him bypass someone's stamina is the only one I find kind of plausible.

[ssbgoku]

to keep it really short about possible interpretation of ssbkk goku vs hit duel:

1) Out of universe explanation: Toei pulling his flashy move to increase sales or just for giggles and entertainment, maybe nostalgia.

2) In universe explanation:
- Goku was already tired and pretty beat up before he unleashed kaioken even times two, so he would be even 50% when he used kaiokenx10 to make him 5 times as strong as he would be on full power and fresh.
- Hit time skip ability to bypass durabiliity and make goku body destroy him from inside, or damage him at least
- Goku was holding back being afraid to not use all power decreasing effect of Kaioken multiplying thing
- Hit was using lethal techniques to destroy goku's stamina

Something like that or maybe all above combined.

Out of universe is probably right, this fanbase has proven it majoritively loves getting its nostalgia boners sucked off.

In-universe are pretty iffy. Goku wasn't that badly damaged enough for his power to get cut to 90%+ and Hit never used lethal attacks as Goku recognized this and requested for the no killing rule to get dropped because of it. Hit's power potentially letting him bypass someone's stamina is the only one I find kind of plausible.

Sure, About in-universe logic. Well sure that goku couldn't be less then 100% ssb goku from tournament arc. at least he would be 30% when he tried kaioken but it is iffy. About bypassing durability very possible, especially if hit is able to damage goku;s body forcing it to be unable to fight anymore and keep decreasing his ki amount...

[Helios518]

to keep it really short about possible interpretation of ssbkk goku vs hit duel:

1) Out of universe explanation: Toei pulling his flashy move to increase sales or just for giggles and entertainment, maybe nostalgia.

2) In universe explanation:
- Goku was already tired and pretty beat up before he unleashed kaioken even times two, so he would be even 50% when he used kaiokenx10 to make him 5 times as strong as he would be on full power and fresh.
- Hit time skip ability to bypass durabiliity and make goku body destroy him from inside, or damage him at least
- Goku was holding back being afraid to not use all power decreasing effect of Kaioken multiplying thing
- Hit was using lethal techniques to destroy goku's stamina

Something like that or maybe all above combined.

Out of universe is probably right, this fanbase has proven it majoritively loves getting its nostalgia boners sucked off.

In-universe are pretty iffy. Goku wasn't that badly damaged enough for his power to get cut to 90%+ and Hit never used lethal attacks as Goku recognized this and requested for the no killing rule to get dropped because of it. Hit's power potentially letting him bypass someone's stamina is the only one I find kind of plausible.

Sure, About in-universe logic. Well sure that goku couldn't be less then 100% ssb goku from tournament arc. at least he would be 30% when he tried kaioken but it is iffy. About bypassing durability very possible, especially if hit is able to damage goku;s body forcing it to be unable to fight anymore and keep decreasing his ki amount...

Even if SSJBKKx10 Goku was working at 15% (possibly even 12.5%) efficiency he would still have one-shoted a SSJB tier character before he could blink.

Also let's say SSJB Goku was 50% of his full SSJB power before he used KK (1.5x) then when he did use it that would make him 75% of his full SSJB but somehow that blitzed Hit despite Hit earlier was just keeping track of a normal full power SSJB character just fine.

[ssbgoku]

Out of universe is probably right, this fanbase has proven it majoritively loves getting its nostalgia boners sucked off.

In-universe are pretty iffy. Goku wasn't that badly damaged enough for his power to get cut to 90%+ and Hit never used lethal attacks as Goku recognized this and requested for the no killing rule to get dropped because of it. Hit's power potentially letting him bypass someone's stamina is the only one I find kind of plausible.

Sure, About in-universe logic. Well sure that goku couldn't be less then 100% ssb goku from tournament arc. at least he would be 30% when he tried kaioken but it is iffy. About bypassing durability very possible, especially if hit is able to damage goku;s body forcing it to be unable to fight anymore and keep decreasing his ki amount...

Even if SSJBKKx10 Goku was working at 15% (possibly even 12.5%) efficiency he would still have one-shoted a SSJB tier character before he could blink.

Also let's say SSJB Goku was 50% of his full SSJB power before he used KK (1.5x) then when he did use it that would make him 75% of his full SSJB but somehow that blitzed Hit despite Hit earlier was just keeping track of a normal full power SSJB character just fine.

Too be honest about just gap power between characters it already happened in dbz and none called it bullshit or I didn't hear it... I mean Great Ape Vegeta vs goku in Saiyan saga. If we go by simple pl numbers then vegeta was 180 000 against goku 32 000 just at one point... Also bringing kaioken back,what about kkx4 goku vs vegeta. It was gap of 14 000, almost 50% !, and Vegeta not just survived but also managed to attack again. What were the reasons then ?

Simply, goku got tired out and lost a bit of power before he unleashed kaioken x3 and more. If kkx2 goku had 16k pl, then after disabling it, affter effects and pressure on body would drop goku from 8000(base) pl to 6000-6500, which in turn kkx3 goku made with 18-19500 pl, then he used kkx4 goku to unleash even more power making him less then 24 000. Same with Vegeta dropping in power due to making false moon and being tired out after battle dropping from 18 000 to 4 000(false moon + being hit by kkx4 kamehameha) then Great ape vegeta being 40 k or bit less.

Hit's expectional fighting style and time skip ability make it even more possible as assumption.

IN short: While goku got weaker from fighting and using kaioken, hit also was getting weaker but in strength however at much slower rate, that why it looked like that.

[Helios518]

Sure, About in-universe logic. Well sure that goku couldn't be less then 100% ssb goku from tournament arc. at least he would be 30% when he tried kaioken but it is iffy. About bypassing durability very possible, especially if hit is able to damage goku;s body forcing it to be unable to fight anymore and keep decreasing his ki amount...

Even if SSJBKKx10 Goku was working at 15% (possibly even 12.5%) efficiency he would still have one-shoted a SSJB tier character before he could blink.

Also let's say SSJB Goku was 50% of his full SSJB power before he used KK (1.5x) then when he did use it that would make him 75% of his full SSJB but somehow that blitzed Hit despite Hit earlier was just keeping track of a normal full power SSJB character just fine.

Too be honest about just gap power between characters it already happened in dbz and none called it bullshit or I didn't hear it... I mean Great Ape Vegeta vs goku in Saiyan saga. If we go by simple pl numbers then vegeta was 180 000 against goku 32 000 just at one point... Also bringing kaioken back,what about kkx4 goku vs vegeta. It was gap of 14 000, almost 50% !, and Vegeta not just survived but also managed to attack again. What were the reasons then ?

Simply, goku got tired out and lost a bit of power before he unleashed kaioken x3 and more. If kkx2 goku had 16k pl, then after disabling it, affter effects and pressure on body would drop goku from 8000(base) pl to 6000-6500, which in turn kkx3 goku made with 18-19500 pl, then he used kkx4 goku to unleash even more power making him less then 24 000. Same with Vegeta dropping in power due to making false moon and being tired out after battle dropping from 18 000 to 4 000(false moon + being hit by kkx4 kamehameha) then Great ape vegeta being 40 k or bit less.

Hit's expectional fighting style and time skip ability make it even more possible as assumption.

IN short: While goku got weaker from fighting and using kaioken, hit also was getting weaker but in strength however at much slower rate, that why it looked like that.

SSJBKK Goku was blitzing Hit and later he went SSJBKKx10 and was later getting worked up by Hit. IDK man, there's two ways you could go about this Hit's improvements wasn't just the improving his Time-Skip or you could say that they gotten so weak (but Hit got weaker at a slower rate) that SSJBKKx10 is around the same strength as normal SSJB (despite the manga and anime has it that Goku is 10x stronger than Vegeta for some reason), one of these is definitely splitting hairs and it's not the former.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Considering as KKx10, he threw many punches each one of those attacks should've oneshotted a SSJB tier character except it didn't to Hit. The only way Hit could be taking so much of those attacks and still catching up with Goku is if he's around that level

In the manga? Sure. But this is Toei's anime we are talking about, which has its own rules.

Own rules? We seen a normal SSJBKK Goku blitz regular Hit but later in the fight Hit is catching up with a SSJBKKx10 Goku which should be impossible unless you somehow believe KKx10 makes the person slower than regular KK.

The anime in general doesn't take power gaps as seriously as the manga does. Look at base Goku/Trunks/Vegeta vs Artificial Humans #13/#14/#15, base Goku vs SS Broli, base Goku vs Paikuhan, GT base Gohan vs GT SS Goten, SS Goku vs Super #17, or more recently, SS2 Trunks vs SSR Black, and SSB Goku vs Future Zamasu.