Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
- Polyphase Avatron
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 6643
- Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am
Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
His job supposedly involves 'destroying evildoers', but let's look at his track record.
What he has done
* Destroyed 6 universes (1/3 of existence) because something (implied to be minor and otherwise inconsequential) in them annoyed him.
* Appointed the Hakaishin, who, despite their role supposedly being necessary, have no rules against casual genocide and often threaten to destroy far more than they should.
* Chastised and threatened to replace 2 Hakaishin who took a few days off from their jobs to hold a martial arts tournament.
* Wasted the time of a Kaioshin and a Hakaishin's attendant just to meet and pal around with a guy he met for like 5 minutes, for no particular reason.
* Gave said guy a method to summon him at will, just to play with him.
What he hasn't done
* Anything to stop Freeza from terrorizing the galaxy for at least decades.
* Anything to stop a wizard and his pet monster from nearly killing all of the Kaioshin (and, consequently, the Hakaishin) from universe 7.
* Anything to stop the 7th universe's Hakaishin from slacking off for decades or more at a time (remember, 39 years was supposed to be a short nap for Beerus)
* Anything to stop multiple Hakaishin from nearly destroying one or more universes on multiple occasions
* Anything to stop Black and Zamasu from killing all of the Kaioshin and Hakaishin in all of the universes
At best, his priorities are severely skewed. At worst, he's not qualified to rule a lemonade stand, let alone a multiverse.
What he has done
* Destroyed 6 universes (1/3 of existence) because something (implied to be minor and otherwise inconsequential) in them annoyed him.
* Appointed the Hakaishin, who, despite their role supposedly being necessary, have no rules against casual genocide and often threaten to destroy far more than they should.
* Chastised and threatened to replace 2 Hakaishin who took a few days off from their jobs to hold a martial arts tournament.
* Wasted the time of a Kaioshin and a Hakaishin's attendant just to meet and pal around with a guy he met for like 5 minutes, for no particular reason.
* Gave said guy a method to summon him at will, just to play with him.
What he hasn't done
* Anything to stop Freeza from terrorizing the galaxy for at least decades.
* Anything to stop a wizard and his pet monster from nearly killing all of the Kaioshin (and, consequently, the Hakaishin) from universe 7.
* Anything to stop the 7th universe's Hakaishin from slacking off for decades or more at a time (remember, 39 years was supposed to be a short nap for Beerus)
* Anything to stop multiple Hakaishin from nearly destroying one or more universes on multiple occasions
* Anything to stop Black and Zamasu from killing all of the Kaioshin and Hakaishin in all of the universes
At best, his priorities are severely skewed. At worst, he's not qualified to rule a lemonade stand, let alone a multiverse.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
I feel like there's plenty assumptions made, in general and not just this thread, about Zeno's role. It hasn't exactly been elaborated with detail. Who's to say his behavior and actions are improper? Why do we think he needs to be responsible for anything when said responsibilities are ambiguous? Yes, I understand why one would question him, but without his complete motives, you may very well be criticizing normal habits. It's difficult to convince others away from that in reality. It's akin to asking unreasonable questions about why characters are acting like their character. The issue is, as the audience, we're still strangers to him. We don't truly know what he's about on a daily basis nor his personal schedule of duties, if he even keeps one. Is there really a case to be made about his "usefulness" or if your personal standards for him are relevant? (I can't think of an alternate synonym to phrase that with, but that last sentence isn't mean-spirited.)
- fadeddreams5
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5156
- Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:53 pm
- Location: New York
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
As far as I can tell, Zeno's primary job is to hire gods of destruction, hire attendants to watch over them, and supervise both them and the kaioshin.
He only ever acted when Beerus and Champa left their post, so it's clear he closely monitors them in particular.
The real question is why he has not stepped up against Black and Zamasu. It makes little sense to me, as they've effectively killed all hakaishin.
He only ever acted when Beerus and Champa left their post, so it's clear he closely monitors them in particular.
The real question is why he has not stepped up against Black and Zamasu. It makes little sense to me, as they've effectively killed all hakaishin.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:12 pm
- Location: Zambia, Southern Africa
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
We need to see more of Zeno and how he is being used.
But I think "useless" is too strong a word to describe the gods in DB. Let's say "laidback" is more accurate. Akira Toriyama did a story called "Toccio the Angel", where the title character was a god who looked like Buu and who just wanted to laze around without anyone to disturb him (which happened frequently, and so he got upset and had to rush around trying to help people).
The DB gods remind me a lot of the gods in the Discworld series, written by fantasy comedy writer Terry Pratchett. In that series, the gods preoccupy themselves with petty little games (using people as players); this is partly out of boredom because they have nothing better to do, and partly because they are aware the magical world they inhabit runs on very little logic, so why bother conforming?
The only one there who takes his job seriously is the avatar of death, and even he tries out mortal activities like adopt children, appear in a play, and give presents; he actually dislikes his job because of how sad and bleak it is, and one time retired and passed it on to his step-granddaughter, but when she tried to decide who lived and who died things got complicated and out of control, and so he reluctantly reassumed the role.
The gods in DB remind me a lot of these guys. They don't contribute too much to the world, but are content with it the way it is; they don't interfere unless they see it as necessary (the appearance of Majin Buu, and also Zamasu as a villainous example). The gods are reasonable enough when they're not being antagonistic: Beerus only appeared because he wanted to fight a Super Saiyan God, Chanpa started the Universe Tournament because he wanted Universe 7's Earth (and he stopped because Universe 6's Earth was restored), and Zeno (so far) just wants a friend on his level.
But I think "useless" is too strong a word to describe the gods in DB. Let's say "laidback" is more accurate. Akira Toriyama did a story called "Toccio the Angel", where the title character was a god who looked like Buu and who just wanted to laze around without anyone to disturb him (which happened frequently, and so he got upset and had to rush around trying to help people).
The DB gods remind me a lot of the gods in the Discworld series, written by fantasy comedy writer Terry Pratchett. In that series, the gods preoccupy themselves with petty little games (using people as players); this is partly out of boredom because they have nothing better to do, and partly because they are aware the magical world they inhabit runs on very little logic, so why bother conforming?
The only one there who takes his job seriously is the avatar of death, and even he tries out mortal activities like adopt children, appear in a play, and give presents; he actually dislikes his job because of how sad and bleak it is, and one time retired and passed it on to his step-granddaughter, but when she tried to decide who lived and who died things got complicated and out of control, and so he reluctantly reassumed the role.
The gods in DB remind me a lot of these guys. They don't contribute too much to the world, but are content with it the way it is; they don't interfere unless they see it as necessary (the appearance of Majin Buu, and also Zamasu as a villainous example). The gods are reasonable enough when they're not being antagonistic: Beerus only appeared because he wanted to fight a Super Saiyan God, Chanpa started the Universe Tournament because he wanted Universe 7's Earth (and he stopped because Universe 6's Earth was restored), and Zeno (so far) just wants a friend on his level.
"Don't take pleasure in destruction!" / "I will not let you destroy my world!"
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
-
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:30 pm
- Location: S.E. Michigan
- Contact:
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
He's no more useless than any of the "real" gods that people actually believe in.
And I don't think he's necessarily benevolent. He is presented as a childlike character, and there's nothing more dangerous than an all-powerful child. It's been implied that anyone who annoys him in even a minor way gets sent to the cornfield.
And I don't think he's necessarily benevolent. He is presented as a childlike character, and there's nothing more dangerous than an all-powerful child. It's been implied that anyone who annoys him in even a minor way gets sent to the cornfield.
"...It’s still going to be the same sort of easy-to-understand content as always." - Akira Toriyama, on transitioning from DBZ to DBS.
"Just repeat to yourself, It's just a show,
I should really just relax..." - MST3K theme song
"Just repeat to yourself, It's just a show,
I should really just relax..." - MST3K theme song
- DBZAOTA482
- Banned
- Posts: 6995
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
- Contact:
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
At least he didn't cause a whole saga to happen because of his incompetence unlike a certain overseer.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
This thread if full of assumptions, the worst one being that Zeno has any kind of "human" morality.
How can you expect a being who killed a decillion of people or more, to care for what Freeza was doing, for example.
We can't evaluate Zeno because we have no parameters to do it. He's what attendants use to give Hakaishin nightmares and keep them in line, he's a bogeyman.
We could try to evaluate him by his inferior Gods performance, although that doesn't seem fair. Besides it's not confirmed that he nominates them and I'm pretty sure he doesn't train them, so yeah...
How can you expect a being who killed a decillion of people or more, to care for what Freeza was doing, for example.
We can't evaluate Zeno because we have no parameters to do it. He's what attendants use to give Hakaishin nightmares and keep them in line, he's a bogeyman.
We could try to evaluate him by his inferior Gods performance, although that doesn't seem fair. Besides it's not confirmed that he nominates them and I'm pretty sure he doesn't train them, so yeah...
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
The fact Zeno killed a third of the multiverse and has yet to restore any of it should clue people in about the number of fucks Zeno gives about anyone beneath him.LightBing wrote:This thread if full of assumptions, the worst one being that Zeno has any kind of "human" morality.
How can you expect a being who killed a decillion of people or more, to care for what Freeza was doing, for example.
We can't evaluate Zeno because we have no parameters to do it. He's what attendants use to give Hakaishin nightmares and keep them in line, he's a bogeyman.
We could try to evaluate him by his inferior Gods performance, although that doesn't seem fair. Besides it's not confirmed that he nominates them and I'm pretty sure he doesn't train them, so yeah...
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
- Steven Bloodriver
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3477
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:06 pm
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
Yes, Zeno should be replaced with the Supreme Kai of Time instead. Before sending the former's crazy ass to be with Garlic Junior inside of the Dead Zone.Polyphase Avatron wrote:His job supposedly involves 'destroying evildoers', but let's look at his track record.
What he has done
* Destroyed 6 universes (1/3 of existence) because something (implied to be minor and otherwise inconsequential) in them annoyed him.
* Appointed the Hakaishin, who, despite their role supposedly being necessary, have no rules against casual genocide and often threaten to destroy far more than they should.
* Chastised and threatened to replace 2 Hakaishin who took a few days off from their jobs to hold a martial arts tournament.
* Wasted the time of a Kaioshin and a Hakaishin's attendant just to meet and pal around with a guy he met for like 5 minutes, for no particular reason.
* Gave said guy a method to summon him at will, just to play with him.
What he hasn't done
* Anything to stop Freeza from terrorizing the galaxy for at least decades.
* Anything to stop a wizard and his pet monster from nearly killing all of the Kaioshin (and, consequently, the Hakaishin) from universe 7.
* Anything to stop the 7th universe's Hakaishin from slacking off for decades or more at a time (remember, 39 years was supposed to be a short nap for Beerus)
* Anything to stop multiple Hakaishin from nearly destroying one or more universes on multiple occasions
* Anything to stop Black and Zamasu from killing all of the Kaioshin and Hakaishin in all of the universes
At best, his priorities are severely skewed. At worst, he's not qualified to rule a lemonade stand, let alone a multiverse.
- Polyphase Avatron
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 6643
- Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
Whis said he was supposed to destroy evil people, though.LightBing wrote:This thread if full of assumptions, the worst one being that Zeno has any kind of "human" morality.
How can you expect a being who killed a decillion of people or more, to care for what Freeza was doing, for example.
We can't evaluate Zeno because we have no parameters to do it. He's what attendants use to give Hakaishin nightmares and keep them in line, he's a bogeyman.
We could try to evaluate him by his inferior Gods performance, although that doesn't seem fair. Besides it's not confirmed that he nominates them and I'm pretty sure he doesn't train them, so yeah...
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:12 pm
- Location: Zambia, Southern Africa
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
Well, he's not considered useless now.
"Don't take pleasure in destruction!" / "I will not let you destroy my world!"
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
- Lord Beerus
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 21389
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
- Location: A temple on a giant tree
- Contact:
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
Yeah, to make sure Zamasu would never exist, he destroyed an entire timeline.DragonBallFoodie wrote:Well, he's not considered useless now.
Spoiler:
- phattangent
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:29 pm
- Location: 第7宇宙
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
Maybe... I translated the short line that Zenō said just before he starting erasing stuff in another thread: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=36253&p=1194510#p1194510Lord Beerus wrote:Yeah, to make sure Zamasu would never exist, he destroyed an entire timeline.DragonBallFoodie wrote:Well, he's not considered useless now.
ドラゴンボール超と言うアニメを見ています。あの、日本語が分かりますか?話しましょう!
ザマスに就いて、全王は合体ザマスより大なりです!
ザマスに就いて、全王は合体ザマスより大なりです!
- Lord Frieza
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3801
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
I think Zamasu summed it up best, the gods just site around and do nothing to actively help the universe.
I respect their view of letting things develop naturally and understanding that the universe needs balance but the all of the higher gods seem to not take an active interest in the goings on in their universes. Our Kaioshin is different as he has seen how that negligence can lead to catastrophe with Buu but most of the other gods just site on their laurels as far as we know. Even Beerus didn't really provide much in the way of help and arrogantly assumed killing Zamasu would solve the problem. Zeno decides to destroy a whole universe rather then fix the problem.
I'm not saying Zamasu's ideals were right but I can understand why he became so frustrated with his fellow deities.
I respect their view of letting things develop naturally and understanding that the universe needs balance but the all of the higher gods seem to not take an active interest in the goings on in their universes. Our Kaioshin is different as he has seen how that negligence can lead to catastrophe with Buu but most of the other gods just site on their laurels as far as we know. Even Beerus didn't really provide much in the way of help and arrogantly assumed killing Zamasu would solve the problem. Zeno decides to destroy a whole universe rather then fix the problem.
I'm not saying Zamasu's ideals were right but I can understand why he became so frustrated with his fellow deities.
- Polyphase Avatron
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 6643
- Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
I think this just confirms my point. Zeno didn't even know what was going on until Goku summoned him.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147
- dragon boss z
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1997
- Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:19 am
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
Zeno is basically just a gag character. Also you could say he is the most evil person in dragon ball since he has killed more people than anyone else, and for almost no reason either.
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
Zeno is entertaining, means he isn't useless.
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
This is the only one I can agree with. I don't know what Zeno does with his time, but someone whether him or his attendant should have noticed that universes's kais and gods were going dark and investigated, everything else is too small for him to care for. He's the Capital G ending in -od of this series, we shouldn't expect him to do jack.Polyphase Avatron wrote: * Anything to stop Black and Zamasu from killing all of the Kaioshin and Hakaishin in all of the universes
- apex_pretador
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2081
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:17 pm
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
Well said, Zeno is useless idiot and dumber than goku. He is totally unfit to weild such power which can wipe out universes on a whim.
- ShadowBardock89
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1365
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:40 pm
Re: Is Zeno the most useless god ever?
dragon boss z wrote:Zeno is basically just a gag character. Also you could say he is the most evil person in dragon ball since he has killed more people than anyone else, and for almost no reason either.
Seriously. How did he NOT notice that the Supreme Kais and Gods of Destruction were dead in his timeline, especially since Beerus and Champa got chewed out for slacking in their jobs by him?Polyphase Avatron wrote:I think this just confirms my point. Zeno didn't even know what was going on until Goku summoned him.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40715&start=20#p1439892
http://dba.bn-ent.net/character/barduck.html
https://i.imgur.com/86hOk5i.gif
http://dba.bn-ent.net/character/barduck.html
https://i.imgur.com/86hOk5i.gif