The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[nickzambuto]

22nd Ten vs 22nd Chiaotzu

I was thinking, it's kinda just taken as fact that Ten was way stronger than Chiaotzu, but in reality the little guy's telekinesis was working on Goku just fine. Meaning he could paralyze Ten just as easily, and I don't think Ten possesses Krillin's cleverness to think of a way around that.

[Angelus]

Tien could use multi-form. Chiaotzu can't paralyze all of them at the same time. Besides, Tien was a beast. There's no way Chiaotzu could measure up

Here's some Androids Saga matches that's giving the humans an advantage:

Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu VS Base Vegeta (immediately after his fight with Android 19, not given a senzu bean, he reverts back to base). No Ki attacks

Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu VS Sick SSJ Goku (shortly after he gets drained by Android 19 but before he succumbs to the heart disease and stops being a SSJ). No Ki attacks

Speaking of androids, let's say Android 16 was still around when the Cell Jr.'s were spawned. Goku was exhausted from his fight with Cell and was getting beaten by a Cell Jr. What if 16 found this as an opportunity to finally finish his mission and attack Goku? The Cell Jr. stop beating Goku and just watches what happens

Android 16 VS Cell Games MSSJ Goku (post-Cell fight, and also after being beaten up by a Cell Jr)

Good/Mr. Buu (awakened immediately after Kid Buu beat him unconscious) VS Yajirobe with his sword (also during the Buu Arc. He should have climbed up and down Korin Tower countless times already throughout the King Piccolo Saga all the way to the Buu Arc). No Ki attacks or candy beam allowed. Could Yajirobe kill, cook, and eat this pink treat? Base Vegeta (after he was also beaten to a pulp by Kid Buu) was certain that he could one-shot Good/Mr. Buu with a generic ki blast at this point

.. and since we're on the topic of Vegeta..

Buu Arc Base Vegeta (with an Otherworld body, immediately after he gets beaten to a bloody pulp by Kid Buu) VS Cell Games Krillin. No Ki attacks

[nickzambuto]

Tien could use multi-form. Chiaotzu can't paralyze all of them at the same time. Besides, Tien was a beast. There's no way Chiaotzu could measure up

Well he didn't do that until the 23ed. I always assumed he created the technique during his training, otherwise he probably would have used it against Goku at the 22nd. It seemed to be an enhancement of the Four-Armed Technique so I doubt he was able to do it just yet.

Speaking of androids, let's say Android 16 was still around when the Cell Jr.'s were spawned. Goku was exhausted from his fight with Cell and was getting beaten by a Cell Jr. What if 16 found this as an opportunity to finally finish his mission and attack Goku? The Cell Jr. stop beating Goku and just watches what happens

Android 16 VS Cell Games MSSJ Goku (post-Cell fight, and also after being beaten up by a Cell Jr)

16 would go down in history as the world's biggest jerk, that's what would happen.

[DanielSSJ]

22nd Ten vs 22nd Chiaotzu

I was thinking, it's kinda just taken as fact that Ten was way stronger than Chiaotzu, but in reality the little guy's telekinesis was working on Goku just fine. Meaning he could paralyze Ten just as easily, and I don't think Ten possesses Krillin's cleverness to think of a way around that.

I'm pretty sure that Tenshinhan of all people would know the limitations of Chiaotzu's telekinesis and how to counter it.

Tien could use multi-form. Chiaotzu can't paralyze all of them at the same time. Besides, Tien was a beast. There's no way Chiaotzu could measure up

Here's some Androids Saga matches that's giving the humans an advantage:

Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu VS Base Vegeta (immediately after his fight with Android 19, not given a senzu bean, he reverts back to base). No Ki attacks

Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu VS Sick SSJ Goku (shortly after he gets drained by Android 19 but before he succumbs to the heart disease and stops being a SSJ). No Ki attacks

Speaking of androids, let's say Android 16 was still around when the Cell Jr.'s were spawned. Goku was exhausted from his fight with Cell and was getting beaten by a Cell Jr. What if 16 found this as an opportunity to finally finish his mission and attack Goku? The Cell Jr. stop beating Goku and just watches what happens

Android 16 VS Cell Games MSSJ Goku (post-Cell fight, and also after being beaten up by a Cell Jr)

Tenshinhan wasn't shown to be able to use the Four-Bodies technique until the 23rd Budokai, so it wouldn't factor into this match.

Since the Earthlings are so prominent in your matches, I will also include my power levels for them:
Kuririn: 500,000
Tenshinhan: 240,000
Yamcha: 180,000
Chiaotzu: 90,000

- I'm fairly certain that Vegeta has lost at least half of his power to Android 19. With that in mind, he's still packing enough power to deal with the Earthlings without too much trouble. If Ki attacks were allowed, I could see the Earthlings dealing some significant damage with a combination of the Kikoho, Taiyoken, and the Kienzan. But since Ki attacks are banned, they don't have a method of dealing damage against their much more powerful opponent.

- Goku's battle power would be higher than the Earthlings, but his fighting ability is being heavily restricted by the illness. If the Earthlings gang up in him in such a fashion, they will eventually overcome him.

- Goku may be exhausted, but he isn't suffering from any debilitating injuries or illnesses. I'd be willing to be that he's still packing more than enough juice to take out Android 16 before he gets even more worn out.

[Angelus]

Okay what if Ki attacks were allowed on post-19 fight Base Vegeta but no Tribeam or Kienzan or Paralysis allowed? Could Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu pull it off?

Ohh and one more human match just hit me:

Good/Mr. Buu (awakened immediately after Kid Buu beat him unconscious) VS Yajirobe with his sword (also during the Buu Arc. He should have climbed up and down Korin Tower countless times already throughout the King Piccolo Saga all the way to the Buu Arc). No Ki attacks or candy beam allowed. Could Yajirobe kill, cook, and eat this pink treat? Base Vegeta (that was also beaten to a pulp by Kid Buu) was certain that he could one-shot Good/Mr. Buu with a generic ki blast at this point

[DanielSSJ]

Okay what if Ki attacks were allowed on post-19 fight Base Vegeta but no Tribeam or Kienzan or Paralysis allowed? Could Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu pull it off?

Ohh and one more human match just hit me:

Good/Mr. Buu (awakened immediately after Kid Buu beat him unconscious) VS Yajirobe with his sword (also during the Buu Arc. He should have climbed up and down Korin Tower countless times already throughout the King Piccolo Saga all the way to the Buu Arc). No Ki attacks or candy beam allowed. Could Yajirobe kill, cook, and eat this pink treat? Base Vegeta (that was also beaten to a pulp by Kid Buu) was certain that he could one-shot Good/Mr. Buu with a generic ki blast at this point

- Vegeta is way too powerful for Chiaotzu's telekinesis to work on. However, with his exhaustion and the Earthlings teamwork and deadly Ki attacks, they definitely have a chance. Not a great chance, but a chance none-the-less.

- Boo was apparently close to death by that point, needing Dende to heal him. But even then, Yajirobe has nothing in his arsenal to actually finish the job. Now that Mr. Boo's not fighting another Majin Boo, his Ki is going to stay right where it's at and he'll have more than enough power to knock out Yajirobe in one blow.

[Angelus]

Ah so it might take at least someone like Chiaotzu to finish off that near-death Good/Mr. Buu?

.. and since I mentioned Vegeta earlier..

Buu Arc Base Vegeta (with an Otherworld body, immediately after he gets beaten to a bloody pulp by Kid Buu) VS Cell Games Krillin. No Ki attacks

[DanielSSJ]

Ah so it might take at least someone like Chiaotzu to finish off that near-death Good/Mr. Buu?

.. and since I mentioned Vegeta earlier..

Buu Arc Base Vegeta (with an Otherworld body, immediately after he gets beaten to a bloody pulp by Kid Buu) VS Cell Games Krillin. No Ki attacks

Vegeta is badly wounded, but by this point he's so powerful that his injuries aren't enough to give Kuririn a fighting chance. Vegeta could take down all of the Earthling fighters with ease.

[Anime Kitten]

Base Goku (GT - right after he was turned into a child) runs the gauntlet. Normal logic only. Everyone else is in the same time period as Goku. VS:
Baby (Teen - when he shows himself to Goten)
Haze Shenron
Super Saiyan 2 Pan
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Base Vegeta

[TheUltimateNinja]

Base Goku (GT - right after he was turned into a child) runs the gauntlet. Normal logic only. Everyone else is in the same time period as Goku. VS:
Baby (Teen - when he shows himself to Goten)
Haze Shenron
Super Saiyan 2 Pan
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Base Vegeta

Goku solos all of these with minimal effort, though if you're looking for normal logic I'm not sure how to apply that to GT. By normal logic he should get defeated by SS2 Trunks I guess.

Enraged MSSJ Gohan vs Cell Jrs.

[Zamasu55]

Base Goku (GT - right after he was turned into a child) runs the gauntlet. Normal logic only. Everyone else is in the same time period as Goku. VS:
Baby (Teen - when he shows himself to Goten)
Haze Shenron
Super Saiyan 2 Pan
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Base Vegeta

He clears the list.

[Zamasu55]

Base Goku (GT - right after he was turned into a child) runs the gauntlet. Normal logic only. Everyone else is in the same time period as Goku. VS:
Baby (Teen - when he shows himself to Goten)
Haze Shenron
Super Saiyan 2 Pan
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Base Vegeta

Goku solos all of these with minimal effort, though if you're looking for normal logic I'm not sure how to apply that to GT. By normal logic he should get defeated by SS2 Trunks I guess.

Enraged MSSJ Gohan vs Cell Jrs.

Gohan doesn't need to be enraged, the Cell Juniors are only a tiny bit stronger than Super Vegeta and Super Trunks. Gohan wins.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Base Goku (GT - right after he was turned into a child) runs the gauntlet. Normal logic only. Everyone else is in the same time period as Goku. VS:
Baby (Teen - when he shows himself to Goten)
Haze Shenron
Super Saiyan 2 Pan
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Base Vegeta

Goku solos all of these with minimal effort, though if you're looking for normal logic I'm not sure how to apply that to GT. By normal logic he should get defeated by SS2 Trunks I guess.

Enraged MSSJ Gohan vs Cell Jrs.

Gohan doesn't need to be enraged, the Cell Juniors are only a tiny bit stronger than Super Vegeta and Super Trunks. Gohan wins.

The reason I wrote enraged is because if he's normal he probably won't be willing to fight.

Anyway, how about:
1) 50% MSSJ Goku vs Grade 3 Trunks (No speed loss)
2) 50% MSSJ Goku vs Cell (Suppressed vs Trunks)
3) MSSJ Goku vs Final Flash
4) MSSJ Goku vs Cell Jrs.
5) Grade 3 Goku (No speed loss) vs FP Perfect Cell
6) Grade 3 Goku vs FP Perfect Cell in Kamehameha clash.

[DanielSSJ]

Base Goku (GT - right after he was turned into a child) runs the gauntlet. Normal logic only. Everyone else is in the same time period as Goku. VS:
Baby (Teen - when he shows himself to Goten)
Haze Shenron
Super Saiyan 2 Pan
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Base Vegeta

He clears the list.

Can you explain why?

Goku solos all of these with minimal effort, though if you're looking for normal logic I'm not sure how to apply that to GT. By normal logic he should get defeated by SS2 Trunks I guess.

Enraged MSSJ Gohan vs Cell Jrs.

Gohan doesn't need to be enraged, the Cell Juniors are only a tiny bit stronger than Super Vegeta and Super Trunks. Gohan wins.

The reason I wrote enraged is because if he's normal he probably won't be willing to fight.

Anyway, how about:
1) 50% MSSJ Goku vs Grade 3 Trunks (No speed loss)
2) 50% MSSJ Goku vs Cell (Suppressed vs Trunks)
3) MSSJ Goku vs Final Flash
4) MSSJ Goku vs Cell Jrs.
5) Grade 3 Goku (No speed loss) vs FP Perfect Cell
6) Grade 3 Goku vs FP Perfect Cell in Kamehameha clash.

1) Without that speed loss, Trunks has a decent advantage against Goku. However Goku, who is familiar with Grade 3 and it's weaknesses and much more skilled and experienced than Trunks, is able to last long enough for Grade 3's other weakness to kick in, namely it's enhanced Ki consumption, and he easily picks off a rapidly weakening Trunks. It's basically the SSGSS Goku vs Golden Freeza fight, substituting Freeza for Trunks.
2) The two are exactly even in strength and skill. Goku's got teleportation, but Cell has his force-fields and regeneration. I don't think either one has an advantage over the other.
3) I think that if Goku gathers his Ki to defend against it, he could withstand it with minor injuries. He probably wouldn't no-sell it, though.
4) If Goku is at full power, he should at least be a match for the Cell Junior. Cell specifically said that Goku was losing because he lost so much power beforehand.
5) Grade 3 Goku would gain a decent advantage over Cell, but there's still that energy consumption to deal with. Given Goku's familiarity with the form's weaknesses, he'd definitely know to finish the fight quickly, but Cell would also know to try and extend the fight as long as possible. I suppose a Teleportation Kamehameha would finish the job at that point.
6) Goku's stronger and since it's one beam clash instead of a full fight, he can easily overpower Cell before his power runs out.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Base Goku (GT - right after he was turned into a child) runs the gauntlet. Normal logic only. Everyone else is in the same time period as Goku. VS:
Baby (Teen - when he shows himself to Goten)
Haze Shenron
Super Saiyan 2 Pan
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Base Vegeta

He clears the list.

Can you explain why?

GT Goku is supposed to be above SSJ3 Z Goku so he's absurdly powerful, I personally have him at around 5-10x Z Goku but the consensus seems to be he's around 500x Z Goku.

[Anime Kitten]

My apologies, I listed Baby in a different time period despite what I originally wrote. Slipped my mind.

Anyhow, though:
Pan (GT) VS Base Trunks (GT)
Equal power. No SSJ for Trunks. Other than that, anything goes.

[TheUltimateNinja]

My apologies, I listed Baby in a different time period despite what I originally wrote. Slipped my mind.

Anyhow, though:
Pan (GT) VS Base Trunks (GT)
Equal power. No SSJ for Trunks. Other than that, anything goes.

Trunks takes this with medium effort.

Base Goku (GT - right after he was turned into a child) runs the gauntlet. Normal logic only. Everyone else is in the same time period as Goku. VS:
Baby (Teen - when he shows himself to Goten)
Haze Shenron
Super Saiyan 2 Pan
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Base Vegeta

He clears the list.

Can you explain why?

Anyway, how about:
1) 50% MSSJ Goku vs Grade 3 Trunks (No speed loss)
2) 50% MSSJ Goku vs Cell (Suppressed vs Trunks)
3) MSSJ Goku vs Final Flash
4) MSSJ Goku vs Cell Jrs.
5) Grade 3 Goku (No speed loss) vs FP Perfect Cell
6) Grade 3 Goku vs FP Perfect Cell in Kamehameha clash.

1) Without that speed loss, Trunks has a decent advantage against Goku. However Goku, who is familiar with Grade 3 and it's weaknesses and much more skilled and experienced than Trunks, is able to last long enough for Grade 3's other weakness to kick in, namely it's enhanced Ki consumption, and he easily picks off a rapidly weakening Trunks. It's basically the SSGSS Goku vs Golden Freeza fight, substituting Freeza for Trunks.
2) The two are exactly even in strength and skill. Goku's got teleportation, but Cell has his force-fields and regeneration. I don't think either one has an advantage over the other.
3) I think that if Goku gathers his Ki to defend against it, he could withstand it with minor injuries. He probably wouldn't no-sell it, though.
4) If Goku is at full power, he should at least be a match for the Cell Junior. Cell specifically said that Goku was losing because he lost so much power beforehand.
5) Grade 3 Goku would gain a decent advantage over Cell, but there's still that energy consumption to deal with. Given Goku's familiarity with the form's weaknesses, he'd definitely know to finish the fight quickly, but Cell would also know to try and extend the fight as long as possible. I suppose a Teleportation Kamehameha would finish the job at that point.
6) Goku's stronger and since it's one beam clash instead of a full fight, he can easily overpower Cell before his power runs out.

1) I think Goku takes this quite easily, under my current power levels 50% MSSJ Goku is above Grade 3 Trunks, which is supported by the show since when he powers up for Korin everyone, including Trunks, is shocked by his power and they later feel that he could defeat Cell.

2) I have 50% MSSJ Goku above Cell's suppression too, but Cell has higher stamina, regeneration and a more diverse skillset so it's hard to say who'd win, though I'd favor Goku after a very hard fight.

3) By my PLs Goku has a 2.5x advantage over Grade 2 Vegeta so if he sees it coming and can guard himself I say he can tank it pretty easily.

4) By this point Goku is almost twice as strong as Trunks and Vegeta who were holding their own against the Cell Jrs., so I think even against 7 of them Goku should win without too much difficulty.

5) What's your multiplier for Grade 3 Goku? I have him at 1.8x MSSJ/90x Base which would put him above even Power Weighted Cell, so despite the energy drain he should be able to beat Cell, especially with his full speed intact.

6) We agree on this one.

[Anime Kitten]

Trunks takes this with medium effort.

Would be nice to get some elaboration, such as why he wins and why he uses the amount of effort he does.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Trunks takes this with medium effort.

Would be nice to get some elaboration, such as why he wins and why he uses the amount of effort he does.

He's a more skilled and experienced fighter than Pan, with a more diverse skillset.

[Anime Kitten]

He's a more skilled and experienced fighter than Pan, with a more diverse skillset.

All right, how about melee only?