Character Development Thread: The Return Of

[Li'l Lemmy]

This is one we have seen before, but not recently-- methinks we're due to have it again. (Though if I'm wrong, please point Lemmy toward the general direction of his apparent retardation.) So if there aren't any serious objections on the part of our moderators:

Who saw the most development as a character throughout all three series?

There's some obvious names that jump to mind right away, but of course we're looking for reasons, evidence and all that kinda good stuff to back it all up. Anyone new who hasn't had the chance to jump in with this one now has their chance, and anyone who's done this before? . . . well, cut and paste from past discussions, if you want!

C'mon, this one always makes for some strong stuff!


~Da Lemmy

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Though if I'm wrong, please point Lemmy toward the general direction of his apparent retardation.

*points to mirror*

o.o

(Oh come on, now, you walked right into that one.)

'Kay, my thoughts...

(And if you think looking at my avatar and screenname is going to make it obvious who my answer is? You'd be wrong XD)

I feel you could say there was some development for anyone up there except for Gokou. Because honestly, Gokou seems to follow the tried-and-true format of the main character, and that being that even over the course of a 10 year series, and 36 years of time, he didn't change a bit. Um, he got older. And bigger. And stronger. Yeah. Character-wise, he's the same naive innocent little boy he always was. Apparently in Japan they like that. Whatever.

Then Piccolo (speaking in terms of Ma Junior, not counting Daimaoh since he's technically not the EXACT same person). He went from being Hell-bent on destroying his "father"'s rival to slowly having his heart changed by that very rival's son. When we see Piccolo die for Gohan, that's his greatest change. Then he returns to life and becomes the stoic, quiet Piccolo we know through most of the rest of the series, with a few minor changes here and there, particularly after re-joining Kami-Sama and becoming more knowledgeable. After that, he doesn't see much change.

As much as I hate to say it, I don't think Gohan had as much development as Vegeta. Granted, we see him go slowly from the spoiled little four-year old at the beginning to becoming gradually braver and stronger, until ultimately surpassing his father. He reaches a level beyond even Super Saiyajin and defeats the undefeatable Cell. And finally becomes a hero. And as much as I love Gohan (WHICH IS A LOT), we all know what came next. He declined greatly. He lost all his power and potential and became a wussy nerd. And some people defend Gohan in the Buu Saga simply because he goes Mystic, but come on. That's kinda a cheap way of making him strong again, and I never bought it. All that work he had done to become strong was lost in times of peace, and having Rou Dai Kaiohshin make him power up that way just made him seem even lamer to me. And we won't even go as far as talking about Gohan AFTER the Buu Saga. So, yeah. Safe to say Gohan developed greatly, but after the Cell Saga not only did he stop developing, but he definitely went BACKWARDS.

Vegeta has the most by far if you ask me. By the end of the series he's almost a completely different person. Going back even further than when he's introduced, of course, he was completely devoted to Freeza, even if that devotion was because of fear and not respect. He did his duties as told, and not only that, but because he enjoyed them. Killing was a hobby. He was ruthless to the core and even went as far as to kill his own comrade for failing to defeat an opponent. He goes to great lengths to kill Gokou and the others, and if not for a load of luck on the part of the "good guys", he wouldn't have lost. But after recovered, he gained more ambition to become immortal and be more powerful than Freeza, to become the strongest in the universe. He kills an uncountable number of Namekseijin on the planet, as well as Freeza's minions. He is shown to be even more ruthless than ever. But when the Ginyu Tokusentai arrive, we see a terrified side of Vegeta we could have never imagined. Seeing how effortlessly Gokou defeats the Ginyu Tokusentai causes a stir in him, believing Gokou to be the Legendary Super Saiyajin. His desperation to surpass him becomes even stronger, and yet, he seems to gain some sort of respect for him, even, in his own twisted way which he would never admit.

Between this battle and the battle with Freeza, he continues to claim he's only teaming up the the "good guys" to defeat him, but through it, he does in his own way get closer to them all. Especially Gokou, even if it is a hatred and desire to surpass him that draws him closer. And of course, his death is a huge development...we see him cry. We see him spill his guts to Gokou, and beg him to defeat Freeza by Saiyajin hands. But when he comes back to life, it's as if none of that happened, and he goes back to his old ways. He becomes a Super Saiyajin through a purity of evil and desire to further surpass Gokou. He does a lot of stupid stuff against the Jinzouningen, and even more against Cell, and it really seems as if Vegeta's attitude and ambitions never changed. He feels no one can beat his incredible new powers, and refuses to believe he can't beat Cell.

And yet, once again, he watches how effortlessly Gokou and Gohan surpass him again. And he watches that even Gokou can't beat Cell, and realizes he never had a chance. And then he watches Gohan defeat him. He gains a new respect for Gohan, and even apologizes to him for being unable to help. Clearly, the entire experience has caused conflicted emotions in him. And if you count Movie #9 (which does actually fit into the canon timeline, more or less, but way more than the other movies), we see how devastated he is without Gokou around, sinking into a deep depression with no rival, and no longer a purpose.

Theeen, we have Buu Saga Vegeta. He seems a LOT different now, with a family and a much more laid-back attitude. Granted, he still trains rigorously, and upon hearing Gokou would even be returning from the dead to fight in the Budoukai, he is hit with all his old desires again. He even willingly lets himself be taken by Babidi just to gain enough power to fight him fair for the first time in years, and surpasses him, finally. Once he defeats Gokou, it's as if he's lost all those old feelings...and the greatest change by FAR takes place. He sacrifices his own life in an effort to kill Majin Buu. He openly tells his son how much he loves him, and holds him, and tells him to tell his mother how much he loves her, as well. He even asks Piccolo if he'll see Gokou in Heaven, and though the reply is that Vegeta will have his soul cleansed for all the crimes he's committed, he seems to have expected that, and doesn't seem to mind. He says good bye and good luck, and willingly gives his own life.

Sure, he is granted pardon for that and allowed to return to fuse with Gokou, and through that whole experience he seems to be the same Vegeta as ever, but it's clearly not true. When even Vegetto isn't enough, he watches as Gokou fights Kid Buu to a stalemate as a Super Saiyajin 3. And he finally realizes that through it all, he never had a chance at being as strong as him. That even his royal blood wasn't enough to surpass Gokou's pure nature, because he always fought for the sake of others, and not himself. And Vegeta finally realizes it and admits to Gokou being number one. He does what he can to help convince the people of Earth to give their energy to the Super Genki Dama, knowing it's the only hope. And once Buu is finally defeated, and peace is restored, and he returns to life, he doesn't have any more desire to surpass Gokou. Not that he doesn't keep training himself, but...Vegeta becomes more about his family after that. And compared to the ruthless Vegeta from the beginning of the series, we see a completely different person.

So...yeah. Long-winded as usual. But Vegeta unquestionably has the most development of any character in the series (and let's be honest, Dragonball was NEVER a very character development-heavy series) if you ask me.

[Rocketman]

I agree that Vegeta has the most development. However:

When even Vegetto isn't enough

What's this bullshit?

[Li'l Lemmy]

I agree that Vegeta has the most development. However:

When even Vegetto isn't enough

What's this bullshit?

Um . . . sheesh. Harsh?

I wouldn't presume to speak for her, a'course, but at any rate I doubt SG2 was meaning to imply in any way that Vegetto couldn't have finished the job.


~Da Lemmy

[Friezafan120]

Hmm...either Vegeta or Piccolo.

[mAcChaos]

Goku did develop a bit. He became much more callous with human life as the series progressed, having died and seen so many perish and come back to life. Even up to Freeza he had issues with killing people; by the Buu saga when told people are going to get slaughtered by the millions by Buu he just shrugs and says the Dragonballs can bring them back. Even Piccolo was more concerned.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

I agree that Vegeta has the most development. However:

When even Vegetto isn't enough

What's this bullshit?

Read my entire sentence, perhaps?


Sure, he is granted pardon for that and allowed to return to fuse with Gokou, and through that whole experience he seems to be the same Vegeta as ever, but it's clearly not true. When even Vegetto isn't enough, he watches as Gokou fights Kid Buu to a stalemate as a Super Saiyajin 3.

Meaning that Vegetto didn't finish off Buu, and even after all his protests for not even wanting to fuse with Gokou, Vegeta still commended him during Gokou's final battle with Kid Buu. I never said anything about Vegetto not being capable of destroying Buu...whatever intervened, fact is he didn't kill Buu...That's what HAPPENED, so...I honestly fail to see your problem with what I said, there...o.o

Goku did develop a bit. He became much more callous with human life as the series progressed, having died and seen so many perish and come back to life. Even up to Freeza he had issues with killing people; by the Buu saga when told people are going to get slaughtered by the millions by Buu he just shrugs and says the Dragonballs can bring them back. Even Piccolo was more concerned.

Hm, that's a very good point. I honestly hadn't even considered NEGATIVE development, but yeah, that's sorta true.