Super is TOO anime.

[ChronoTwigger]

I think i understood the argument.

Why DB and DBZ looked so "rough" while instead Super have clear lines, flat colours and an overall more clean style?

'cause of the new process of productions, actual screens resolution and some style choice toward a cleaner overall look (for example gone are lines drawn to represent impacts or dirt on characters).
Once ago the process of recording cells and our catodic tv created a more "dirty" look, united with a more "artistic" (painting? drawing?) approach to "fill the scenes".
Nowadays those tricks will give bad results.

That was the question, hope some animation expert will confirm my reply.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I think i understood the argument.

Why DB and DBZ looked so "rough" while instead Super have clear lines, flat colours and an overall more clean style?

'cause of the new process of productions, actual screens resolution and some style choice toward a cleaner overall look (for example gone are lines drawn to represent impacts or dirt on characters).
Once ago the process of recording cells and our catodic tv created a more "dirty" look, united with a more "artistic" (painting? drawing?) approach to "fill the scenes".
Nowadays those tricks will give bad results.

That was the question, hope some animation expert will confirm my reply.

I'm no expert, but using the old style wouldn't necessarily give a bad result, it's just not efficient anymore.

[Cipher]

I feel like I should clarify that my post wound up covering completely different stuff from what the thread author apparently had in mind. Wacky slice-of-life stuff, fun alternate outfits, etc. were all present in the original run. Perhaps things just feel different now that you're following them week to week online, getting character designs before episodes air, etc.?

I should also clarify that my use of "most 'anime'" in my previous post meant "most embodying of Japanese animation's perceived negative directorial tropes."

[precita]

If anything Super isn't anime enough.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

If anything Super isn't anime enough.

I beg to differ. Any amount of anime is too much.

And before you guys decide to take me hyper-literally, yes, I'm kidding, Anime is okay and has no effect on on your sexual preference.

[Ki Breaker]

If anything Super isn't anime enough.

Yus!!!!!! Gimme my bulma bouncing boobies?!?!!!!? Vhere are the 18's pantsu!!
Demand Gohan harem now

Would this be anime enough for ya?

[JulieYBM]

No Japanese cartoon better represents the production woes of poor scheduling in modern Japanese cartoons than Dragon Ball Super. It is more anime than any other anime.

But, I agree. I wish Dragon Ball Super had more of the things that make anime great (lovingly drawn and timing animation, smart use of post-processing and storyboarding, vibrant use of sound, et cetera) and wasn't the international-friendly bland-fest it has been up until now.

[PsionicWarrior]

I think i understood the argument.

Why DB and DBZ looked so "rough" while instead Super have clear lines, flat colours and an overall more clean style?

'cause of the new process of productions

Well the modern technology could obviously process a tone in the same spirit than the old DB fetching our time's resolutions, it's not a matter of production process it's a matter of art direction lol

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Super has definitely been trading more in standard anime tropes than the previous three series -- from little visual quirks (how many times did Goku ever go full smiling "arch" eyes in previous series versus Super), to script minutia such as characters sharing lines (someone ought to do a count on the number of times characters all share a reaction in sync together in Super vs. Toriyama material; that's absolutely an anime-specific trope, as it's ridiculous to script into a manga or replicate in live action) to the way it handles humor in a way that seemingly has to meet a weekly quota. Chalk it up to not adapting Toriyama material, or being as aesthetically distinct/rooted in the mid-'90s as GT.

Beerus' slapping Bulma in the TV adaptation may be the most "anime" thing Dragon Ball has ever done, and perhaps the most embarrassingly directed scene in the franchise.

It's all pretty small stuff though. Oh well. I can't say I'm at all in favor of thoughtlessly invoking genre tropes like those, however small, but it is what it is. The ending of the Trunks arc, and its generally no-nonsense handling of Zamasu (a rhetoric-based villain who absolutely would have been given more of a legitimizing platform in Dragon Ball's sister series, as opposed to the regular "Why are you talking to yourself? Who cares?" responses he earned here), have given me hope that Toriyama's story direction will still have the series bucking expectations where it counts, even in this safer era of the franchise.

Oh great thanks for reminding about that Cipher! Got that to look forward to again in the FUNi dub...yay!

[huzaifa_ahmed]

"Why is my Japanese show being Japanese!"

I don't understand this. Have you see Dragon Ball, like, at all?

Arguably, dub fans could be accused of making the same complaints. Many can watch/read subs just fine, & it's not like you can't feel the vibe of their performance, & asking a performance to be replaced for your culture & convenience...could definitely be seen as "Japanese show is full of Japanese, why?"

[ChronoTwigger]

I think i understood the argument.

Why DB and DBZ looked so "rough" while instead Super have clear lines, flat colours and an overall more clean style?

'cause of the new process of productions

Well the modern technology could obviously process a tone in the same spirit than the old DB fetching our time's resolutions, it's not a matter of production process it's a matter of art direction lol

Of course, but they are not forced to do so like they did for technical limitations.

[Lord Beerus]

No Japanese cartoon better represents the production woes of poor scheduling in modern Japanese cartoons than Dragon Ball Super. It is more anime than any other anime.

But, I agree. I wish Dragon Ball Super had more of the things that make anime great (lovingly drawn and timing animation, smart use of post-processing and storyboarding, vibrant use of sound, et cetera) and wasn't the international-friendly bland-fest it has been up until now.

Really can't emphasis this enough. As much as I like Super, it's really been handled fucking terribly by Toei and the production committee as a whole. It's honestly a miracle that have some episodes have turned out as good as they have, in my opinion, despite the circumstances. This show has really catastrophically mishandled some of Toei Animation's most talented staff.

[GodKaio-Ken]

It's fine. Don't take it personally or anything, I just amuse myself by going on mock-rants from time to time. I actually agree with you, people do overestimate that period.

I'm serious about Naruto not being good, though

Oh, it's cool. I'm not taking anything personally. As for Naruto, I disagree completely. I'm someone who is not too stuck on the script side of things. The story/plot/script whatever is not the be-all and end-all like some fans say. It doesn't make or break a show.
Hi
I like good storytelling and storytelling in an anime is good voice acting, music, engaging sound effects and most importantly animation and direction. Naruto has got'em all much much better than any other long running series.

You can at least agree that Naruto has an interesting enough premise, right? I don't think it is complex or deep or earth shattering like some do. At its core, it is a simple story for people with simple tastes. What it excels at is storytelling. The amount of love it gets from the staff shows. Dragon Ball, One Piece not even Hunter X Hunter(2011) got as much as love it has gotten. The battle scenes and dialogue scenes always expand and improve upon the comic.

Guys like Wakabayashi Atsushi, Matsumoto Norio, Tsuru Toshiyuki, Suzuki Hirofumi and Nishio Tetsuya did it in the 2002 Naruto series while they and Date Hayato(series director)also pushed young guns like Yamashita Hiroyuki, Masayuki Kouda, Sessha Gorou and transformed them into not only good animators but also great directors. Studio Pierrot with all their connections were able to get a superb web-gen animator like Yamashita Shingo and the amazingly talented Kobayashi Naoki who have produced outstanding work for Naruto Shippuuden.

My point is animators/directors are storytellers and they told the Naruto story with all their might and passion and it's hard not to notice the excellent work they've done. That is more important and it makes Naruto and Naruto Shippuden more than qualified to be called a good cartoon. It's not by any means flawless, there's instances of bad storytelling but it's highs far far overshadow it's lows.

I also enjoy the comic. Kishimoto Masashi's attention to detail is wonderful. As an artist, he draws well and I like his drawings just as much as Toriyama's. The inner Sakura is one of the most intelligent and creative ideas I've seen. His work started going downhill in the later stages of the comic, but I don't blame him cause the cartoon makes up for it. It could very well be him getting burnt-out just like Toriyama. It's not easy to write/draw on a weekly basis after-all, but he and his editors planned the story decently and it reached a conclusion which I thought was pretty fitting.

Personally I've never been a fan of Naruto but its probably because the reasons you stated its good dont fit my taste. For instance I've never even noticed the soundtrack in a show or movie positive or negative. Same with Japanese voice acting...i cant tell when its good.

What i can tell is when a show has a strong or interesting plot which is what draws me in. My point of this post isnt to crap on Naruto but to point out we all like anime for different reasons.

Personally i think Hunter x Hunter is the greatest story ever written in anime. I know many would disagree. I hope Super begins to have plots that are explained in more detail...no more unexplained transformations please.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Personally I've never been a fan of Naruto but its probably because the reasons you stated its good dont fit my taste. For instance I've never even noticed the soundtrack in a show or movie positive or negative. Same with Japanese voice acting...i cant tell when its good.

What i can tell is when a show has a strong or interesting plot which is what draws me in. My point of this post isnt to crap on Naruto but to point out we all like anime for different reasons.

Personally i think Hunter x Hunter is the greatest story ever written in anime. I know many would disagree. I hope Super begins to have plots that are explained in more detail...no more unexplained transformations please.

The reasons I stated why I think Naruto is good applies to every show. I will not deny that a plot plays an important role in drawing an audience. It certainly does, but it's not the only thing that matters. A film or TV show is more than just the writing.

Also, I find it quite strange that music and acting doesn't matter to you. Good music and acting can make an important scene 10x more impactful. Dragon Ball itself is filled with great examples. The Gokuu Freeza fight is the best one. I don't think the fight is great but the dialogue scenes and the music placement is what makes that fight memorable, even though animation and direction wise it is very inconsistent.

I like Hunter x Hunter as well. Togashi is one of my favorite mangakas and he can write engaging and interesting stories. The comic is nice. But, like I said before a TV show is more than just writing and I personally thought the 2011 anime deserved more than what it got. It was good don't get me wrong, but it deserved more storytelling wise.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Personally I've never been a fan of Naruto but its probably because the reasons you stated its good dont fit my taste. For instance I've never even noticed the soundtrack in a show or movie positive or negative. Same with Japanese voice acting...i cant tell when its good.

What i can tell is when a show has a strong or interesting plot which is what draws me in. My point of this post isnt to crap on Naruto but to point out we all like anime for different reasons.

Personally i think Hunter x Hunter is the greatest story ever written in anime. I know many would disagree. I hope Super begins to have plots that are explained in more detail...no more unexplained transformations please.

The reasons I stated why I think Naruto is good applies to every show. I will not deny that a plot plays an important role in drawing an audience. It certainly does, but it's not the only thing that matters. A film or TV show is more than just the writing.

Also, I find it quite strange that music and acting doesn't matter to you. Good music and acting can make an important scene 10x more impactful. Dragon Ball itself is filled with great examples. The Gokuu Freeza fight is the best one. I don't think the fight is great but the dialogue scenes and the music placement is what makes that fight memorable, even though animation and direction wise it is very inconsistent.

I like Hunter x Hunter as well. Togashi is one of my favorite mangakas and he can write engaging and interesting stories. The comic is nice. But, like I said before a TV show is more than just writing and I personally thought the 2011 anime deserved more than what it got. It was good don't get me wrong, but it deserved more storytelling wise.

Well voice acting matters to me in English because i understand the words. In Japanese i know a few words but unless the voice acting is horrible i just wont notice it.

Background score...i dunno. I never notice it in a conscious way except sometimes when a person points it out or I'm rewatching something a lot. I'm sure if it was awful id take notice.

[Ki Breaker]

Personally I've never been a fan of Naruto but its probably because the reasons you stated its good dont fit my taste. For instance I've never even noticed the soundtrack in a show or movie positive or negative. Same with Japanese voice acting...i cant tell when its good.

What i can tell is when a show has a strong or interesting plot which is what draws me in. My point of this post isnt to crap on Naruto but to point out we all like anime for different reasons.

Personally i think Hunter x Hunter is the greatest story ever written in anime. I know many would disagree. I hope Super begins to have plots that are explained in more detail...no more unexplained transformations please.

The reasons I stated why I think Naruto is good applies to every show. I will not deny that a plot plays an important role in drawing an audience. It certainly does, but it's not the only thing that matters. A film or TV show is more than just the writing.

Also, I find it quite strange that music and acting doesn't matter to you. Good music and acting can make an important scene 10x more impactful. Dragon Ball itself is filled with great examples. The Gokuu Freeza fight is the best one. I don't think the fight is great but the dialogue scenes and the music placement is what makes that fight memorable, even though animation and direction wise it is very inconsistent.

I like Hunter x Hunter as well. Togashi is one of my favorite mangakas and he can write engaging and interesting stories. The comic is nice. But, like I said before a TV show is more than just writing and I personally thought the 2011 anime deserved more than what it got. It was good don't get me wrong, but it deserved more storytelling wise.

Well voice acting matters to me in English because i understand the words. In Japanese i know a few words but unless the voice acting is horrible i just wont notice it.

Background score...i dunno. I never notice it in a conscious way except sometimes when a person points it out or I'm rewatching something a lot. I'm sure if it was awful id take notice.

I agree with god kaioken here..
Same is the case with me..
Never really notice voice acting, background songs etc if it's not outright torture, that too happens only the first time..
Also about Naruto, it was good until Shippuden happened..
It just became meh afterwards for me..

[Ringworm128]

Haven't watched much of Super but from what I have seen yeah, it does sort of gear towards what modern anime audiences are used to. (I wonder if that's because it's a modern anime). It's one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of Zeno. That said it still does have that Dragonball charm here and there. One thing I don't like is how the openings have fallen into the trope of pretty much being commercials for rock songs. I know it's been a norm in anime for the last 20 years, but I do wish we still had stuff like Cha La and Dragon Soul.

[keyz05]

Back in DBZ, everything was serious and there wasn't much of a feel of a Japanese anime, especially the High School Gohan scene. Here in DBS, the anime scale for the series just cranked up to about 11. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, but I think DBZ fans might take a huge notice of that. Especially with moments of Japanese culture and Japanese food.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Back in DBZ, everything was serious and there wasn't much of a feel of a Japanese anime, especially the High School Gohan scene.

Umm... no? I don't have it available right now, so I can't source you the hundreds and hundreds of examples of Japanese-ness and comedy in Dragon Ball Z, but it's definitely there.

By any chance, have you watched the Japanese version, or are you a English dub-only fan? If you've only seen the English, I think I understand where you're coming from, they didn't adapt many of the more Japanese aspects.

[keyz05]

Back in DBZ, everything was serious and there wasn't much of a feel of a Japanese anime, especially the High School Gohan scene.

Umm... no? I don't have it available right now, so I can't source you the hundreds and hundreds of examples of Japanese-ness and comedy in Dragon Ball Z, but it's definitely there.

By any chance, have you watched the Japanese version, or are you a English dub-only fan? If you've only seen the English, I think I understand where you're coming from, they didn't adapt many of the more Japanese aspects.

I'm in both of the English and Japanese versions of the show and the manga. When I read the manga, there wasn't much Japanese included in it.