Unpopular DB opinions

[WobbuSleuth]

First two DBZ movies are better than DBZ itself. Good, truly martial arts fights, interesting and unique story-lines (for franchise, at least).
I'd like to see some fan-manga that would include and expand story-lines from these films.

[Cipher]

First two DBZ movies are better than DBZ itself. Good, truly martial arts fights, interesting and unique story-lines (for franchise, at least).
I'd like to see some fan-manga that would include and expand story-lines from these films.

There's a delightfully ugly late '80s, early '90s quality to the first two Z movies that place them more in line with any number of seinen action anime of the day. It's not very Dragon Ball-esque, but it'd be cool to see another take on the series lean heavily into the kind of world they establish.

[precita]

I think the Cell arc is underrated in terms of how low-key everything is compared to all the other arcs. There is no big villain looking to conquer the world, destroy the planet, or take over the universe.

After Freeza is defeated, it started off just with some old man and his machines wanting to get revenge on Goku. 17, 18 and 16 don't even cause any trouble in the modern era when they wake up, they're literally kids who go on a pick-up truck. Then Imperfect Cell was sort of like a horror movie villain where he sucked people dry. As he became Perfect Cell he basically turned into a stock supervillain, but even then it felt like he had more of a conscience than the other villains.

I also LOVE how Future Trunks is not the hero. You would think Trunks would save the present but he gets defeated, humbled, and ultimately killed even before the climax. Toriyama avoided making Trunks seem like a Mary Sue (which considering how he killed Freeza so easily when we watched Goku struggle against him for 30 episodes...could have been one), and humanizes him.

[ekrolo2]

I'm only watching the next big arc of Super for my fanfiction stories

[Kanassa]

I mean, what relationship does Gohan have with Cell that supposed to make the feeling of Cell being brought down a peg by him feel so cathartic or satisfying?

I think that's one of my biggest gripes with Gohan beating Cell. Until Cell causes Goku's death (Due to Gohan's sudden cockiness), Goku, Vegeta and Trunks all have much more of a connection to the fight that makes them the most sense (Story-wise) to kill him. I still hold the notion that Goku's death in that arc should of been how his fight with Cell ended, thus causing Gohan to go SS2.

[Ki Breaker]

Cell arc is the worst point in the entire series, Cell is the lamest villan and his death was also very shitty

[ekrolo2]

I mean, what relationship does Gohan have with Cell that supposed to make the feeling of Cell being brought down a peg by him feel so cathartic or satisfying?

I think that's one of my biggest gripes with Gohan beating Cell. Until Cell causes Goku's death (Due to Gohan's sudden cockiness), Goku, Vegeta and Trunks all have much more of a connection to the fight that makes them the most sense (Story-wise) to kill him. I still hold the notion that Goku's death in that arc should of been how his fight with Cell ended, thus causing Gohan to go SS2.

I think it somewhat works for Cell since he's comprised of the most powerful beings to ever exist, at the time the arc was written anyway, and this little kid is kicking his ass. On Gohan's end.... There's nothing, he's just a weird science experiment that ticked him off.

[ABED]

It feels like Goku is fighting Cell with Gohan as his proxy.

[DBZAOTA482]

I mean, what relationship does Gohan have with Cell that supposed to make the feeling of Cell being brought down a peg by him feel so cathartic or satisfying?

I think that's one of my biggest gripes with Gohan beating Cell. Until Cell causes Goku's death (Due to Gohan's sudden cockiness), Goku, Vegeta and Trunks all have much more of a connection to the fight that makes them the most sense (Story-wise) to kill him. I still hold the notion that Goku's death in that arc should of been how his fight with Cell ended, thus causing Gohan to go SS2.

I think it somewhat works for Cell since he's comprised of the most powerful beings to ever exist, at the time the arc was written anyway, and this little kid is kicking his ass. On Gohan's end.... There's nothing, he's just a weird science experiment that ticked him off.

Gohan has just as much connection with Cell as Goku does Freeza.

In fact Vegeta has much more connection with Freeza than anyone but you don't see people complaining about how he wasn't able to do shit agains him.

[Doctor.]

Gohan has just as much connection with Cell as Goku does Freeza.

Freeza destroyed Goku's race, family and murdered his friends in front of him.

Cell, at worst, hurt Gohan's friends a wee bit.

[precita]

Gohan beating Cell made sense. The narrative of the Saiyan/Freeza arcs had been Gohan's great strength and potential, and Goku had just become the legend of the Super Saiyan defeating Freeza. Seeing Gohan take up the mantle in the next arc fit perfectly.

I don't understand people's obsession with Vegeta beating a main villain, and if Trunks had done it he would have been a borderline Mary Sue. Trunks failing completely and dying was the best thing that happened to his character and made it realistic. Imagine if Trunks did the whole sword/spirit bomb thing from the Zamasu arc to defeat Perfect Cell? It would have been nuts.

[DBZAOTA482]

Gohan has just as much connection with Cell as Goku does Freeza.

Freeza destroyed Goku's race, family and murdered his friends in front of him.

Cell, at worst, hurt Gohan's friends a wee bit.

A race that Goku resented and only Krillin died in front of him. Piccolo was shot but survived.

Cell not only actively totured Gohan both mentally and physically just so he can be a challenge, and almost killed Piccolo and Tien but he caused the permanent deaths of two significant good guys... Trunks from the original timeline and #16, who was the embodiment of peace and benevolence. He also killed his father when he tried to go kamikaze on Earth out of spite.

[Nejishiki]

That's downplaying Cell's nature quite significantly. Perhaps the general dislike for the Artificial Humans arc is being taken too far now, but there is nothing lighthearted to be found with Cell provoking Gohan to the extreme and torturing his companions along the way. If you're reading the scenario that way, the context is being lost in the process. The young man felt helpless in that situation. Cell was openly being a cruel monster to everyone. The only way out for Gohan was to lose himself in anger before someone needlessly died, which is exactly what happened. His pleas for mercy being ignored and mocked didn't help matters.

While Goku's character acknowledged the evils of Freeza, he acknowledged the sins of the Saiyans alongside with him. There was no preferential treatment nor did the extinction of the Saiyan race play a significant factor in Goku's rage. The seemingly permanent death of Kuririn ultimately accomplished that with the long-term implication of his current standing being the next factor (Goku believed Freeza was too dangerous so long as nobody could defeat him, a stance which is changed when he is comfortably more powerful than him). Before that, Freeza was more personally tied with the Vegeta, Kuririn, and Gohan trio. Opinions should be well-informed opinions before we devolve character motivations into hyperbole non-representative of the story, if you please. I feel as if what was presented in the flow of the narrative is becoming lost now.

[Doctor.]

A race that Goku resented and only Krillin died in front of him. Piccolo was shot but survived.

A race that Goku took pride in by the time the Namek arc came around. He also said he'd avenge Vegeta and the Namekians Freeza killed.

Cell not only actively totured Gohan both mentally and physically just so he can be a challenge, and almost killed Piccolo and Tien but he caused the permanent deaths of two significant good guys... Trunks from the original timeline and #16, who was the embodiment of peace and benevolence. He also killed his father when he tried to blow up Earth out of spite.

Cell did literally all of this and more to Goku as well. Gohan doesn't have a bigger connection to Cell than Goku does, put simply.

[The Patrolman]

Gohan has just as much connection with Cell as Goku does Freeza.

Freeza destroyed Goku's race, family and murdered his friends in front of him.

Cell, at worst, hurt Gohan's friends a wee bit.

Add in the fact Goku became the thing that Freeza feared and destroyed Planet Vegeta for. A Super Saiyan. Also add in the Bardock Special and Goku connection to Freeza dates back since he was born.

[Kanassa]

and if Trunks had done it he would have been a borderline Mary Sue.

Trunks killing Cell would of made him a flawless character who the reality of the story bows down to, despite his previous flaws and failures still being present and people still able to rightfully call him out on his fuck ups? Since when does killing a major villain erase all of a characters flaws?

[DBZAOTA482]

A race that Goku resented and only Krillin died in front of him. Piccolo was shot but survived.

A race that Goku took pride in by the time the Namek arc came around. He also said he'd avenge Vegeta and the Namekians Freeza killed.

Cell not only actively totured Gohan both mentally and physically just so he can be a challenge, and almost killed Piccolo and Tien but he caused the permanent deaths of two significant good guys... Trunks from the original timeline and #16, who was the embodiment of peace and benevolence. He also killed his father when he tried to blow up Earth out of spite.

Cell did literally all of this and more to Goku as well. Gohan doesn't have a bigger connection to Cell than Goku does, put simply.

Goku still hated the Saiyans... namely Vegeta and he knows jackshit about the Namekians. It was not personal till Freeza went after his loved ones.

Cell didn't actively mentally and physically torture Goku nor did he kill the embodiment of peace and benevolence right in front of him like he was nothing.

[Doctor.]

Goku still hated the Saiyans... namely Vegeta and he knows jackshit about the Namekians. It was not personal till Freeza went after his loved ones.

Cell didn't actively mentally and physically torture Goku or did he kill the embodiment of peace and benevolence right in front of him like he was nothing.

That doesn't really matter when Goku gives this whole speech about avenging them all. Freeza was going after his loved ones for the entirety of the arc. It was personal from the start since Freeza was getting in the way of his goal of resurrecting his friends.

Cell actively mentally and physically tortured his son in front of him. #16 wasn't the embodiment of peace, his mission was to kill Goku, Gohan's father. Gohan doesn't give much of a crap about him.

[ABED]

Goku may not like Vegeta, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he hated him. After their battle, Goku respects the hell out of him for being so powerful and he resents Freeza for preventing them from having their rematch. The entire Freeza arc was building to the inevitable battle between Freeza and Goku.

[ekrolo2]

Pretty much anyone else but Gohan is a good choice to kill Cell. Goku would be cleaning up the last of his RRA mess, Trunks lives to kill Androids and fuck, even Piccolo as Kami has good reason to hate him since he's responsible for horribly murdering the people of his adopted home. Gohan has fuck all with a side of jack shit with Cell. Seriously, Freeza does a LOT worse to Gohan and you don't see anyone saying Freeza is actually Gohan's arch nemesis because of it.