The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Lord Beerus]

Cabba loses in both those matches horribly. He's really nothing special. The best could do was rough up SSJ Vegeta.

So you ignore the whole Base (Post God) > SSJ3 thing? Not a complaint, just interested in the way you think bout' Super power levels.

actually its Base [post God] > SSj3 Gotenks ... Thats a different ballgame

That's pure filler. I take that with a grain of salt.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Goten & Trunks (Pre-RoSAT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell (Initial)

Goten & Trunks (Post-RoSAT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell (Full power)

[DanielSSJ]

Base Gohan VS Tien (additively and permanently given the full power levels of Krillin, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Yajirobe)
[No Ki attacks match. All are during Androids Saga. Gohan is pre-ROSAT, specifically a full hour before entering the ROSAT]

None of the Earthlings ever get as strong as First Form Freeza in my eyes, whereas Gohan is about as strong as his dad was when he fought Freeza (excluding Kaioken and Super Saiyan, obviously). Unless if Super Tenshinhan can nail him with a Kikoho, Gohan wins without trying.

I have Gohan at 4M, Tien at 1,8M, Krillin at 1,2M, Yamcha at 600K, Chiaotzu probably 200-300k, and Yajirobe a bit less than 910 (his saiyan saga power level).
Gohan takes this, since he trained with 2 strong partners for 3 years, and is a half saiyan.

Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan. Ever since the Boo arc, he has been constantly and consistently pegged as the strongest Earthling by official sources.

Spike the Devilman (no flying, weapons, or Devilmite Beam) VS Pre-Korin Tower climb Goku (minutes before Mercenary Tao arrives at Bora's yard)

Muten Roshi speculated that Goku, as strong as he was at the 21st Tenka'ichi Budokai, probably would've been no match for the Mummy, who would've been much weaker than Akkuman. And while Goku got a bit stronger while fighting the Red Ribbon guys, it probably wasn't enough to make a difference.

Goten & Trunks (Pre-RoSAT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell (Initial)

Goten & Trunks (Post-RoSAT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell (Full power)

To be honest, I think that both kids have enough power individually to match Stage 2 Cell before hopping into the Room of Spirit and Time.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Base Gohan VS Tien (additively and permanently given the full power levels of Krillin, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Yajirobe)
[No Ki attacks match. All are during Androids Saga. Gohan is pre-ROSAT, specifically a full hour before entering the ROSAT]

None of the Earthlings ever get as strong as First Form Freeza in my eyes, whereas Gohan is about as strong as his dad was when he fought Freeza (excluding Kaioken and Super Saiyan, obviously). Unless if Super Tenshinhan can nail him with a Kikoho, Gohan wins without trying.

This seems about right.

We know that Androids Arc Yamcha is comparable to Saiyan Arc Saiyans, so he's 30,000-40,000 at best, I personally put him at around 25,000 during that time period. Tenshinhan, having spent far more time training on Kaio's planet and also being more serious about training in general is likely much stronger than Yamcha after 3 years, I'd peg him at 80,000. We know Kuririn is a good deal stronger than Tenshinhan, so he's probably around 100,000.

Adding up their power levels: 80,000 + 100,000 + 25,000 = 205,000. Tenshinhan ends up barely stronger than Non-rage boosted Namek Gohan (Pre-Zenkai).

[dragonball0900]

Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan. Ever since the Boo arc, he has been constantly and consistently pegged as the strongest Earthling by official sources.

I know about this whole Tien vs Krillin debate, some say Tien is stronger, others say Krillin is stronger, but we just don't know who of them is stronger. I'm one of those who will always believe that Tien is stronger than Krillin. Tenshinhan always trains, and Krillin didn't in the 7 year gap. You can say that in the Cell arc, Krillin might be stronger. But I highly doubt that he's stronger than Tien in the Buu arc. Also, Toriyama might have forgotten about Tien in that interview, and also it's debatable if Tien is actually a human, considering there are guides that says that he's an alien. I think it's a personal opinion, I just have Tien stronger than Krillin in those parts of the series.

Goten & Trunks (Pre-RoSAT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell (Initial)

Goten & Trunks (Post-RoSAT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell (Full power)

The first one, if they fight together, they beat Semi Perfect Cell.

The next one, Goten and Trunks easily beat Semi Perfect Cell, since I put them stronger than ASSJ Vegeta (1st ROSAT) and weaker than Piccolo (Cell Games).

[TheUltimateNinja]

Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan. Ever since the Boo arc, he has been constantly and consistently pegged as the strongest Earthling by official sources.

I know about this whole Tien vs Krillin debate, some say Tien is stronger, others say Krillin is stronger, but we just don't know who of them is stronger. I'm one of those who will always believe that Tien is stronger than Krillin. Tenshinhan always trains, and Krillin didn't in the 7 year gap. You can say that in the Cell arc, Krillin might be stronger. But I highly doubt that he's stronger than Tien in the Buu arc. Also, Toriyama might have forgotten about Tien in that interview, and also it's debatable if Tien is actually a human, considering there are guides that says that he's an alien. I think it's a personal opinion, I just have Tien stronger than Krillin in those parts of the series.

It's in the manga as well, during the 25th Budokai in the Buu Arc Kuririn is said to be the strongest human. He gained a huge lead over Tenshinhan in the Namek Arc and has stayed ahead since then.

[DanielSSJ]

I know about this whole Tien vs Krillin debate, some say Tien is stronger, others say Krillin is stronger, but we just don't know who of them is stronger. I'm one of those who will always believe that Tien is stronger than Krillin. Tenshinhan always trains, and Krillin didn't in the 7 year gap. You can say that in the Cell arc, Krillin might be stronger. But I highly doubt that he's stronger than Tien in the Buu arc. Also, Toriyama might have forgotten about Tien in that interview, and also it's debatable if Tien is actually a human, considering there are guides that says that he's an alien. I think it's a personal opinion, I just have Tien stronger than Krillin in those parts of the series.

It's not just one interview though. In the Boo arc, Yamcha straight up says Kuririn is the strongest Earthling. Kuririn's voice actor, Mayumi Tanaka, says that he's the strongest in an interview (though she does admittedly have a bias). Most character guides from the Boo arc onwards, including the ones from the pre-release material for Battle of Gods and Resurrection F, describe Kuririn as the strongest Earthling. As for Tenshinhan's alien ancestry, he was only ever stated to be descended from aliens in a supplementary guide, and the same guide also lists him as being an Earthling. There is no confusion among the creators. Kuririn is the strongest Earthling.

Now, if you want to rationalize why Kuririn remained the strongest despite giving up martial arts after the Cell Arc, I can help you there. Simply put, the power Kuririn gained from having his potential unleashed on Namek gave him such an advantage that Tenshinhan was never quite able to overcome it, even in the Boo arc.

This seems about right.

We know that Androids Arc Yamcha is comparable to Saiyan Arc Saiyans, so he's 30,000-40,000 at best, I personally put him at around 25,000 during that time period. Tenshinhan, having spent far more time training on Kaio's planet and also being more serious about training in general is likely much stronger than Yamcha after 3 years, I'd peg him at 80,000. We know Kuririn is a good deal stronger than Tenshinhan, so he's probably around 100,000.

Adding up their power levels: 80,000 + 100,000 + 25,000 = 205,000. Tenshinhan ends up barely stronger than Non-rage boosted Namek Gohan (Pre-Zenkai).

I would put them a little higher than that. I cleverly/lazily made my battle powers for them correspond to the some of the numbers from the Freeza arc. Kuririn is at 250,000 (Vegeta vs Freeza), Tenshinhan is 180,000 (Kaioken Goku vs Ginyu), and Yamcha is 120,000 (Ginyu). I suppose Chiaotzu is 30,000 or something.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Adding up their power levels: 80,000 + 100,000 + 25,000 = 205,000. Tenshinhan ends up barely stronger than Non-rage boosted Namek Gohan (Pre-Zenkai).

I would put them a little higher than that. I cleverly/lazily made my battle powers for them correspond to the some of the numbers from the Freeza arc. Kuririn is at 250,000 (Vegeta vs Freeza), Tenshinhan is 180,000 (Kaioken Goku vs Ginyu), and Yamcha is 120,000 (Ginyu). I suppose Chiaotzu is 30,000 or something.

Androids Arc Yamcha can't be that high since he is in the same ballpark as Saiyan Arc Saiyans, unless we play with technicalities and include Oozaru Vegeta.

[DanielSSJ]

Androids Arc Yamcha can't be that high since he is in the same ballpark as Saiyan Arc Saiyans, unless we play with technicalities and include Oozaru Vegeta.

Why does Yamcha have to be in the same league as the Saiyan arc Saiyans?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Androids Arc Yamcha can't be that high since he is in the same ballpark as Saiyan Arc Saiyans, unless we play with technicalities and include Oozaru Vegeta.

Why does Yamcha have to be in the same league as the Saiyan arc Saiyans?

I just checked the manga and it seems that's not really necessary. It's because of the scene where 19 identifies him as Son Goku due to his abnormally large ki. In the manga the scene doesn't get anymore detailed than that, but in the subs I watched it's further stated that Yamcha's power matches Goku's last reading or something like that, and that would be back in the Saiyan Arc as Gero stopped paying attention to his computer after that.

[ryan1227]

Goten & Trunks (Pre-RoSAT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell (Initial)

Goten & Trunks (Post-RoSAT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell (Full power)

Either of the kids vaporize Cell with one blast. Goten was shown to be able to make Gohan put effort into blocking his attacks, and the kids made Piccolo recoil in shock at their power.

[Angelus]

21st WMAT Krillin VS Goku (Red Ribbon Saga; Post-Mercenary Tao fight, Pre-Korin Tower climb)

[TheUltimateNinja]

21st WMAT Krillin VS Goku (Red Ribbon Saga; Post-Mercenary Tao fight, Pre-Korin Tower climb)

Wait, what? The Red Ribbon Army Arc takes place after the 21st tournament, Goku would completely destroy Kuririn.

[Angelus]

Yeah the RR Arc happens after the 21st WMAT. But this Goku just got beat up by Mercenary Tao. This is basically the time right before Goku climbed up Korin Tower, but just right after he got beat up by Tao.

[dragonball0900]

It's in the manga as well, during the 25th Budokai in the Buu Arc Kuririn is said to be the strongest human. He gained a huge lead over Tenshinhan in the Namek Arc and has stayed ahead since then.

It's not just one interview though. In the Boo arc, Yamcha straight up says Kuririn is the strongest Earthling. Kuririn's voice actor, Mayumi Tanaka, says that he's the strongest in an interview (though she does admittedly have a bias). Most character guides from the Boo arc onwards, including the ones from the pre-release material for Battle of Gods and Resurrection F, describe Kuririn as the strongest Earthling. As for Tenshinhan's alien ancestry, he was only ever stated to be descended from aliens in a supplementary guide, and the same guide also lists him as being an Earthling. There is no confusion among the creators. Kuririn is the strongest Earthling.

Now, if you want to rationalize why Kuririn remained the strongest despite giving up martial arts after the Cell Arc, I can help you there. Simply put, the power Kuririn gained from having his potential unleashed on Namek gave him such an advantage that Tenshinhan was never quite able to overcome it, even in the Boo arc.

Right, but Tien trained on King Kai's planet with 3 partners, and more days than Goku, which should be a good boost. Then 3 years for the androids. And then 7 years non stop from training. Just because Krillin got his potential unlocked it doesn't mean he should have the advantage on power, if he didn't train for 7 full years then his power should have declined, not as much as Yamcha, but surely it's got decline.

I don't think we should rely on Yamcha telling Krillin's daughter about it, maybe he's just motivating her to not think that her father will lose the match.

Also, about the guides, maybe they were wrong. Some small information on the guides can sometimes be wrong, or maybe they just forgot Tien was stronger. Perhaps they didn't think on putting Krillin as the strongest earthling.

But I'm alright if you think Krillin is the strongest. I'm not saying Krillin shouldn't be the strongest, maybe he is the strongest, but for me, Tien clearly showed evidences that he's much stronger than Krillin.

21st WMAT Krillin VS Goku (Red Ribbon Saga; Post-Mercenary Tao fight, Pre-Korin Tower climb)

Goku wins this, although with a bit of difficulties since he would be a bit tired from Tao's match. But given that this Goku is stronger than his 21st Budokai self, then Goku would win here.

[Noah]

New matches: Kid Goku (Post Mr. Popo training) against Z villains (equal power, limited stamina):

- Raditz
- Nappa
- Vegeta (Saiyan arc/No Power Ball)
- Captain Ginyu (No Change)
- Final Form Freeza (Namek arc/No planet destruction)
- Dr. Gero
- Android 16
- Perfect Cell (No planet destruction)
- LSSJ Broly (Movie 8/No planet destruction)
- Majin Boo (No planet destruction/candy beam/absorption)

[TheUltimateNinja]

New matches: Kid Goku (Post Mr. Popo training) against Z villains (equal power, limited stamina):

- Raditz
- Nappa
- Vegeta (Saiyan arc/No Power Ball)
- Captain Ginyu (No Change)
- Final Form Freeza (Namek arc/No planet destruction)
- Dr. Gero
- Android 16
- Perfect Cell (No planet destruction)
- LSSJ Broly (Movie 8/No planet destruction)
- Majin Boo (No planet destruction/candy beam/absorption)

- He wins if he goes for the tail, otherwise he wins after a very hard fight.
- Same as above.
- Vegeta's too much for Kid Goku, Vegeta wins after a hard fight.
- Could go either way. Probably a tie.
- Frieza wins without too much difficulty.
- If Goku knows about Gero's absorption he wins fairly easily. Otherwise it could go either way, if Gero manages to restrain Goku and drain his energy, he can win.
- 16 wins after a very hard fight, ultimately he's too formidable. Goku can win if he can manage to land a direct hit with a full power Kamehameha, though.
- Cell wins easily, his abilities are much too great for Kid Goku.
- Goku can beat Broly, Broly's only threatening with a massive power advantage, since they're equal here he gets thrashed by Goku.
- Buu's regen automatically gives him the win here.

[Angelus]

Imperfect Cell (Post-humans absorptions) VS Kamiccolo (with Kaiokenx2; basically just twice as powerful)

[dragonball0900]

Imperfect Cell (Post-humans absorptions) VS Kamiccolo (with Kaiokenx2; basically just twice as powerful)

Considering Piccolo didn't do any damage to Imperfect Cell, then I might put him half of Cell's strenght. With Kaioken x2 I have them making a very good fight. In power I suppose Piccolo has the advantage, but in variety of techniques Cell has the advantage, Piccolo's intelligence comes into mind as well. I don't know, maybe Piccolo?

[DanielSSJ]

21st WMAT Krillin VS Goku (Red Ribbon Saga; Post-Mercenary Tao fight, Pre-Korin Tower climb)

Goku seemed mostly fine after he regained consciousness and he immediately starts climbing. Heck, when he gets to the top of Karin's tower, he's only complaining that he's hungry, not that he's injured. So I would imagine that Goku would take it.

Imperfect Cell (Post-humans absorptions) VS Kamiccolo (with Kaiokenx2; basically just twice as powerful)

Cell ,aybe be stronger than No. 17 and No. 18, but he's not that much stronger. Piccolo x2 squashes Cell like a bug.