"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Jinzoningen MULE]

It also wasn't forced since Goku and Vegeta defused for no reason in the Buu Saga with only Goku's guess that it was bad air.

I wouldn't go that far, the new Potara rules still reek of bs. However, the Boo Arc explanation dwarfs it on that front, so I forgive the retcon.

[Lord Beerus]

I 100% guarantee Gogeta won't happen. It would be such a pointless change, all just to canonize a (non-)character because people like the way he looks. If Gogeta happens in the manga, I will make a GIF of myself eating a shoe, and post it as my avatar. That's how confident I am that it won't happen.

I am going to sig this to ensure you live up to your promise.

[HeroR]

It also wasn't forced since Goku and Vegeta defused for no reason in the Buu Saga with only Goku's guess that it was bad air.

I wouldn't go that far, the new Potara rules still reek of bs. However, the Boo Arc explanation dwarfs it on that front, so I forgive the retcon.

The proper literature term is rewrite, not retcon. The Kai fusion being forever was retcon decades ago when Goku and Vegeta randomly unfused within Buu. All Super did was give a proper explanation as to why it happened, instead of Goku's bad air theory.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The proper literature term is rewrite, not retcon. The Kai fusion being forever was retcon decades ago when Goku and Vegeta randomly unfused within Buu. All Super did was give a proper explanation as to why it happened, instead of Goku's bad air theory.

That's a generous way of looking at it. In old DB, their defusion is obviously an exception to the rule. However, just so Vegetto could have an excuse to show up temporarily, they added rules that blatantly contradicted previous notions. In other words, they retroactively applied new continuity rules to make a plot more convenient, also known as a retcon.

[Grimlock]

You know they can just used Gowasu's earring.

They could, but... Really? The "neutral face" would be my response if that was the case.

Vegeta doesn't know the Fusion Dance in the original manga and what makes you think they would get it right the first time since Vegeta never did it?

Actually he does. Vegeta said he saw everything from the Other World. Of course they wouldn't get it at the first time but Merged Zamasu wasn't looking for them at that moment, they could have practiced at least once...

It also wasn't force since Goku and Vegeta defused for no reason in the Buu Saga with only Goku's guess that it was bad air.

I said that Vegetto's appearance was forced, not the way he defused. The problem with Vegetto getting defused is the retcon that was applied.

[OLKv3]

Highly doubt they'll complain. The majority hate the Potara retcon and wouldn't mind if Gogeta appeared and got defused due to using too much ki.

I 100% guarantee Gogeta won't happen. It would be such a pointless change, all just to canonize a (non-)character because people like the way he looks. If Gogeta happens in the manga, I will make a GIF of myself eating a shoe, and post it as my avatar. That's how confident I am that it won't happen.

I know it won't happen. But I'm saying the fandom wouldn't be upset if it did. They'd praise it. Then it'd turn into the usual boring canon argument.

[HeroR]

The proper literature term is rewrite, not retcon. The Kai fusion being forever was retcon decades ago when Goku and Vegeta randomly unfused within Buu. All Super did was give a proper explanation as to why it happened, instead of Goku's bad air theory.

That's a generous way of looking at it. In old DB, their defusion is obviously an exception to the rule. However, just so Vegetto could have an excuse to show up temporarily, they added rules that blatantly contradicted previous notions. In other words, they retroactively applied new continuity rules to make a plot more convenient, also known as a retcon.

Vegetto is still the exception even with the new rules since neither Goku or Vegeta are Kais. And just so Vegetto didn't instant kill Buu after he saves his family and friend, he inexplicably defused despite being told the fusion was forever. So it's a rewrite since the retcon blanteny happened in the Buu Saga.

You know they can just used Gowasu's earring.

They could, but... Really? The "neutral face" would be my response if that was the case.

Vegeta doesn't know the Fusion Dance in the original manga and what makes you think they would get it right the first time since Vegeta never did it?

Actually he does. Vegeta said he saw everything from the Other World. Of course they wouldn't get it at the first time but Merged Zamasu wasn't looking for them at that moment, they could have practiced at least once...

It also wasn't force since Goku and Vegeta defused for no reason in the Buu Saga with only Goku's guess that it was bad air.

I said that Vegetto's appearance was forced, not the way he defused. The problem with Vegetto getting defused is the retcon that was applied.

Vegeta saw the Fusion Dance. That doesn't means he knows how to do it. Like he saw Goku used the Instant Transmission dozens of time and he can't do it himself. Plus, unlike in Fusion Reborn, you have to wait until the fusion break and another hour after that to attempt the Fusion Dance again. So if Goku and Vegeta failed to fuse the first time, they have to wait an hour and half to try again.


Vegetto appearance wasn't forced either another fusion was the only way to counter Merged Zamasu. And it still isn't a retcon since Vegetto defused for no reason in the Buu Saga despite being told the fusion was forever. Even Goku's bad air theory makes little sense when you consider why didn't Gotenks defused after he was absorbed. He was breathing the same air after all.

[Xeztin]

I 100% guarantee Gogeta won't happen. It would be such a pointless change, all just to canonize a (non-)character because people like the way he looks. If Gogeta happens in the manga, I will make a GIF of myself eating a shoe, and post it as my avatar. That's how confident I am that it won't happen.

I am going to sig this to ensure you live up to your promise.

Oh boy... if SSG can return and replace SSJBK I really wouldn't bet against Vegito/Gogeta swap, especially if Toyo doesn't want to retcon the Potaras

[Ki Breaker]

I 100% guarantee Gogeta won't happen. It would be such a pointless change, all just to canonize a (non-)character because people like the way he looks. If Gogeta happens in the manga, I will make a GIF of myself eating a shoe, and post it as my avatar. That's how confident I am that it won't happen.

I am going to sig this to ensure you live up to your promise.

Oh boy... if SSG can return and replace SSJBK I really wouldn't bet against Vegito/Gogeta swap, especially if Toyo doesn't want to retcon the Potaras

Really want Toyotaro doing this for this sole reason ha! Get it

[Xeztin]

I am going to sig this to ensure you live up to your promise.

Oh boy... if SSG can return and replace SSJBK I really wouldn't bet against Vegito/Gogeta swap, especially if Toyo doesn't want to retcon the Potaras

Really want Toyotaro doing this for this sole reason ha! Get it

It'd be nice if both appeared actually, a 30 minute fusion then Potara

[emperior]

Blue Gogeta would literally last 10 seconds if SSJ3 Gotenks only lasted 5 minutes

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Oh boy... if SSG can return and replace SSJBK I really wouldn't bet against Vegito/Gogeta swap, especially if Toyo doesn't want to retcon the Potaras

Both are bizarre, but those are two entirely different kinds of changes.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

If Gogeta happened in the manga, people would just complain when he inevitably does as well vs Merged Zamasu as Vegito did even though the consensus on an official level is that there isn't any difference between them.

Then people would try to write off Super as "non canon" since they think it "contradicts" the all knowing Boohan whom supposedly figured out the exact formula that applies to every individual during fusion. Since he was apparently thinking of a "SSJ3 Gogeta" for some odd reason when he made his statement

[Duo]

Disregarding the present conversation, I think a really unexpected happenstance that Toyotaro could go with is having Goku "debut" the Ssj Blue Kaio-ken in the fight against Zamasu/Black or Merged Zamasu.

Oh, and my bet is that Goku and Vegeta won't fuse.

[ekrolo2]

I 100% guarantee Gogeta won't happen. It would be such a pointless change, all just to canonize a (non-)character because people like the way he looks. If Gogeta happens in the manga, I will make a GIF of myself eating a shoe, and post it as my avatar. That's how confident I am that it won't happen.

I am going to sig this to ensure you live up to your promise.

As will I, if a video game move can show up in the series, I don't see why a movie character can't.

[Khin]

I feel like stuff like half-purple Merged Zamasu, his ring of light, and Trunks' transformation will be omitted in the manga, I believe Vegetto will appear though. Toyotaro could have make him more useful than the anime did — i.e. him actually weakening Merged Zamasu before defusing. I doubt Kaioshin and Gowasu is going to be there just for nothing.

Anyway, one thing that really intrigues me in the recent chapter is Future Zamasu wearing the time-ring instead of Black. I'm surprised that this hasn't been discussed that much.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I feel like stuff like half-purple Merged Zamasu, his ring of light, and Trunks' transformation will be omitted in the manga, I believe Vegetto will appear though. Toyotaro could have make him more useful than the anime did -- i.e. him actually weakening Merged Zamasu before defusing. I doubt Kaioshin and Gowasu is going to be there just for nothing.

Anyway, one thing that really intrigues me in the recent chapter is Future Zamasu wearing the time-ring instead of Black. I'm surprised that this hasn't been discussed that much.

There's not enough to go off of yet, but the idea that Goku Black may actually be the Future Zamasu is interesting. This is just my crazy idea, what if Zamasu isn't immortal at all? If that were the case, while it would be a bit less interesting than the anime Zamasu's dynamic, it would mean that Toyotaro could probably get through the rest of the arc at a much better pace. The worst consequence of something like that would be finding an excuse to bring Zeno in, which we know has to happen.

[Lord Beerus]

Blue Gogeta would literally last 10 seconds if SSJ3 Gotenks only lasted 5 minutes

I think SSJB Gogeta would instantly defuse. If SSJB Gogeta happens in the manga and it lasts for more than a minute in-universe, I'm calling major bullshit. Especially since SSJB is far more taxing in the manga than in the anime.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Blue Gogeta would literally last 10 seconds if SSJ3 Gotenks only lasted 5 minutes

I think SSJB Gogeta would instantly defuse. If SSJB Gogeta happens in the manga and it lasts for more than a minute in-universe, I'm calling major bullshit. Especially since SSJB is far more taxing in the manga than in the anime.

With something like Toyotaro's manga, their fusion lasting for too long should be the least of your worries.

[Khin]

There's not enough to go off of yet, but the idea that Goku Black may actually be the Future Zamasu is interesting. This is just my crazy idea, what if Zamasu isn't immortal at all? If that were the case, while it would be a bit less interesting than the anime Zamasu's dynamic, it would mean that Toyotaro could probably get through the rest of the arc at a much better pace. The worst consequence of something like that would be finding an excuse to bring Zeno in, which we know has to happen.

I thought of the idea of Black possibly being Future Zamasu as well, but I recall him saying he finally found a timeline where Beerus isn't around or something along those lines in chapter 16, which greatly implies he originated from a different timeline -- which brings you the question as to why he isn't wearing a time-ring.

Assuming the Zamasu we saw in the recent chapter is indeed Future Zamasu, the best possible explanation I can come up for why he's wearing a time-ring is that he went further ahead in time to see what's up -- similar to what Shin did in the same chapter.