"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[mute_proxy]

Black turns Rose after Vegeta eats a Senzu. Before that, he beat's SSB Vegeta while in SSJ1/2

[Basako]

Black turns Rose after Vegeta eats a Senzu. Before that, he beat's SSB Vegeta while in SSJ1/2

Ok, you all keep saying this. Is there another leak I don't know about, because in the one I've seen he takes the senzu when Black turns SSR. Is the page order wrong or something? Here: <Link Removed>

[mute_proxy]

Black turns Rose after Vegeta eats a Senzu. Before that, he beat's SSB Vegeta while in SSJ1/2

Ok, you all keep saying this. Is there another leak I don't know about, because in the one I've seen he takes the senzu when Black turns SSR. Is the page order wrong or something? Here: <Link Removed>

Yep the order is wrong, look at Herms' tweets. Vegeta gets punched in the stomach, head butted to the ground (Black still in SSJ1-2), Vegeta eats senzu, then Black transforms

[TheUltimateNinja]

Okay, here's all the plot holes this creates, tell me if I missed any:
1: Why didn't Goku and Vegeta just become Vegetto to fight Beerus? As we've just seen SSBlue isn't even close to Super Vegetto, let alone SSJ3 Vegetto. SSJ3 Vegetto would be at least 10x stronger than SSGod Goku and easily able to wreck Beerus.

2: If Vegeta was going to lose 90% of his power from going Blue, he should have gone SSJ2 instead. These past few chapters show that his SSJ2 is far above Goku's SSJ3 as SSJ2 Vegeta > Black > SSJ2 Trunks ~ SSJ3 Goku, so even if you nerf SSJ3 and make it only a 200x multiplier, SSJ2 Vegeta would be 250x at least, 50% of SSBlue. With that much power he'd even be able to break Hit's timeskip like SSGod Goku.

3: What the heck is going on with Black? I thought that maybe his total power was Zamasu + Goku and that's why transforming didn't give him much of a boost since only the Goku side would get powered up, but clearly he just got a massive boost from going SSJ whereas earlier his power barely increased.

[Legion]

Nice chapter. Manga Goku is not retarded, and is really a good thing. Good move the tayoken. Better than a smoke grenade

[Basako]

Okay, here's all the plot holes this creates, tell me if I missed any:
1: Why didn't Goku and Vegeta just become Vegetto to fight Beerus? As we've just seen SSBlue isn't even close to Super Vegetto, let alone SSJ3 Vegetto. SSJ3 Vegetto would be at least 10x stronger than SSGod Goku and easily able to wreck Beerus.

2: If Vegeta was going to lose 90% of his power from going Blue, he should have gone SSJ2 instead. These past few chapters show that his SSJ2 is far above Goku's SSJ3 as SSJ2 Vegeta > Black > SSJ2 Trunks ~ SSJ3 Goku, so even if you nerf SSJ3 and make it only a 200x multiplier, SSJ2 Vegeta would be 250x at least, 50% of SSBlue. With that much power he'd even be able to break Hit's timeskip like SSGod Goku.

3: What the heck is going on with Black? I thought that maybe his total power was Zamasu + Goku and that's why transforming didn't give him much of a boost since only the Goku side would get powered up, but clearly he just got a massive boost from going SSJ whereas earlier his power barely increased.

What? I mean point one. Where did you get all that from? There was nothing about Vegetto in here. About not fusing against Beerus, Kaioshins weren't there and Beerus was encouraging them to achieve the SSG form, so they summoned Shenron to ask about it. Finally, they ended the fight as friends, more or less.

I think it's worng Black SS1/2 can beat SSB Vegeta, even after the boost. It would have made much more sense if he did it after turning SSR. But don't burn with the multipliers, they may have appeared in a guidebook or whatever, but they were never so specific in the manga, neither the anime.

[dbgtFO]

Okay, here's all the plot holes this creates, tell me if I missed any:
1: Why didn't Goku and Vegeta just become Vegetto to fight Beerus? As we've just seen SSBlue isn't even close to Super Vegetto, let alone SSJ3 Vegetto. SSJ3 Vegetto would be at least 10x stronger than SSGod Goku and easily able to wreck Beerus.

2: If Vegeta was going to lose 90% of his power from going Blue, he should have gone SSJ2 instead. These past few chapters show that his SSJ2 is far above Goku's SSJ3 as SSJ2 Vegeta > Black > SSJ2 Trunks ~ SSJ3 Goku, so even if you nerf SSJ3 and make it only a 200x multiplier, SSJ2 Vegeta would be 250x at least, 50% of SSBlue. With that much power he'd even be able to break Hit's timeskip like SSGod Goku.

You have proven absolutely nothing, but an obsession to make stuff up and then blame the manga for not sticking to your power level logic.

[Legion]

The manga says nothing about Beerus real power like the anime. I don't know how people can say that SSJ3 Vegetto (seriously?) "wrecked" him And why SSBlue isn't even close to SSJ3 Vegetto?

[Doctor.]

: Why didn't Goku and Vegeta just become Vegetto to fight Beerus? As we've just seen SSBlue isn't even close to Super Vegetto, let alone SSJ3 Vegetto. SSJ3 Vegetto would be at least 10x stronger than SSGod Goku and easily able to wreck Beerus.

Didn't even notice this one, that's real bad.

[SansrivaaL]

: Why didn't Goku and Vegeta just become Vegetto to fight Beerus? As we've just seen SSBlue isn't even close to Super Vegetto, let alone SSJ3 Vegetto. SSJ3 Vegetto would be at least 10x stronger than SSGod Goku and easily able to wreck Beerus.

Didn't even notice this one, that's real bad.

Could be that pride shiz going on in the manga.

[Noah]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This had to be my favorite scene. Power scaling isn't messed up anymore since the theorists were correct, Black jobbed on purpose to get that sweet zenkai

Is that true or not? Power scaling is consistent now?

Okay, here's all the plot holes this creates, tell me if I missed any:
1: Why didn't Goku and Vegeta just become Vegetto to fight Beerus? As we've just seen SSBlue isn't even close to Super Vegetto, let alone SSJ3 Vegetto. SSJ3 Vegetto would be at least 10x stronger than SSGod Goku and easily able to wreck Beerus.

Where the hell did you even get that?

[Doctor.]

Where the hell did you even get that?

Both Black and Vegetto are a tier above SS3 Goku in base, which puts their Super Saiyan forms at a similar strength level.

[Totamo]

The time paradox of goku having fought zamasu, trunks time machine being destroyed, them retreating because they were defeated instead they actually have a plan oh and Goku defeating zamasu who in the anime matched him.

Little changes make all the difference. Haven't you watched TFS? The changes they do to the script, change the characters.

How do you know these weren't parts of Toriyama's script that the manga didn't cut out to save time?

easy, Bulma isn't with them in the manga.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The lack of "Zenkai" for Goku and Vegeta explanation was pretty bad though tbh.

[Doctor.]

The lack of "Zenkai" for Goku and Vegeta explanation was pretty bad though tbh.

I don't understand why it doesn't apply to Black too. I mean, what makes Vegeta's body unable to receive a boost but not Goku's?

At least the anime had the whole "God mind in a mortal's body is the perfect combination" bullshit going on

[Basako]

The time paradox of goku having fought zamasu, trunks time machine being destroyed, them retreating because they were defeated instead they actually have a plan oh and Goku defeating zamasu who in the anime matched him.

Little changes make all the difference. Haven't you watched TFS? The changes they do to the script, change the characters.

How do you know these weren't parts of Toriyama's script that the manga didn't cut out to save time?

easy, Bulma isn't with them in the manga.

He is not saving time in this arc, he is really taking his time for all. He even made a cart race.

[emperior]

The lack of "Zenkai" for Goku and Vegeta explanation was pretty bad though tbh.

What was the explanation? I heard they said Goku and Vegeta maxed out their Zenkais while Black didn't because he's Zamasu. It sounds logical to me. I would have gone a little further and explained that even if Goku's body has maxed out Zenkais, Black's Ki isn't used to that feeling so he can get the boost while Goku and Vegeta can't.
But maybe Toyotaro already explained it in this chapter, we still don't have all the pages.

[Totamo]

Okay, here's all the plot holes this creates, tell me if I missed any:
1: Why didn't Goku and Vegeta just become Vegetto to fight Beerus? As we've just seen SSBlue isn't even close to Super Vegetto, let alone SSJ3 Vegetto. SSJ3 Vegetto would be at least 10x stronger than SSGod Goku and easily able to wreck Beerus.

2: If Vegeta was going to lose 90% of his power from going Blue, he should have gone SSJ2 instead. These past few chapters show that his SSJ2 is far above Goku's SSJ3 as SSJ2 Vegeta > Black > SSJ2 Trunks ~ SSJ3 Goku, so even if you nerf SSJ3 and make it only a 200x multiplier, SSJ2 Vegeta would be 250x at least, 50% of SSBlue. With that much power he'd even be able to break Hit's timeskip like SSGod Goku.

3: What the heck is going on with Black? I thought that maybe his total power was Zamasu + Goku and that's why transforming didn't give him much of a boost since only the Goku side would get powered up, but clearly he just got a massive boost from going SSJ whereas earlier his power barely increased.

What the heck is this power scale of yours?

1. Black was holding back for that sweet zenkai, like vegeta did on namek with krillin

2. Goku already said even if he and vegeta fused they be no match That was before ssjgod and beerus wasn't even at full power.

3. SSj3 is a terrible transformation and has severe drawbacks. Which is the reason Goku didn't use it against vegeta when he fought him in the buu saga.

4. Stop. Using. Power. Scales. The show has already proven you can't base are characters strength of that. Especially with people like HIt, who don't rely on power, but technique.

[OLKv3]

Well, we finally have clear proof that SSBlue is heavily nerfed in the manga. SSBlue Vegeta is getting thrashed by SSJ2 Black. This along with SSJ Goku being in the same league as 10% of SSBlue Vegeta seals the deal, SSBlue is only a 500x multiplier.

Do people who say things like this just ignore what happens in the anime, where SSB gets thrashed or matched by everyone? Base Black was able to tank SSB Vegeta's hits, and surprise speed blitz him. Hit went toe to toe with a Kaio Ken x 10 SSB. Freeza in both versions beat a SSB Goku down

What the heck was it nerfed from?

[Noah]

Where the hell did you even get that?

Both Black and Vegetto are a tier above SS3 Goku in base, which puts their Super Saiyan forms at a similar strength level.

In the original manga, is never stated where Base Vegetto is terms of battle powers, so this is just assumption as pretending that Toyotaro/Toriyama applies multipliers in this manga.