Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

[HeroR]

Yes... He saw what Future Zeno did without even thinking to Trunks timeline and now just because of HIS fun he ignored all the warnings. Of course it wasn't his plan to do so but still he behaves just in his favour of fighting first.

Now let us see if we se a more serious Goku after getting knowledge about the consequences... It's time for it.

And on top on that they should start gather the Super DragonBalls...

Given that Merged Zamasu literally took over the multiverse and was spreading into other timelines, there wasn't much for Future Zen'o to do except waste the timeline. So Goku could have easily seen what Zen'o did as a necessary evil. Not even Trunks held a grudged against Zen'o.

So why would Goku think Zen'o destroying Future Trunks' timeline, where he didn't have any other option to kill Merged Zamasu, equals Zen'o deciding to nuke universes over a tournament.

[Kanassa]

Yeah, while Goku is still to blame indirectly, he really had no reason to think that Zeno would introduce a 'Loser dies' rule. Beerus telling him that Zeno is dangerous in his innocence doesn't change that.

[HeroR]

Yeah, while Goku is still to blame indirectly, he really had no reason to think that Zeno would introduce a 'Loser dies' rule. Beerus telling him that Zeno is dangerous in his innocence doesn't change that.

Telling someone is dangerous in their innocent doesn't equal life-and-death tournament. Beerus and Champa are also dangerous because they're petty, selfish, arrogance gods who will kill their own team if upset and one nearly destroyed Earth over pudding. Yet, fans pretend they're not sociopaths that Goku needs to stay away from.

[Tonifranz]

Yeah, because the tournament doesn't need to happen. AT ALL. There is no compelling reason why to hold it.

Goku may not have intended it, but if you defy warnings and orders to do something that you really do not need to do, only want to do, and unforseen consequences happen because of you, it's on you, partially.

Yeah, he is as responsible as a person driving over the speed limit, drunk, for the deaths of those he hit, even if that person had no intention of killing anynoe, and really believes that he won't get into an accident after being warned not to do so but did so because it's fun.

He may not have a guilty mind, but he is reckless, and that recklessness wold cause untold damage.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

No. If anyone is it is Beerus for allowing Goku to go to Zen-Oh. Should have done the job and not fell for Goku's trick.

[Kanassa]

Yeah, while Goku is still to blame indirectly, he really had no reason to think that Zeno would introduce a 'Loser dies' rule. Beerus telling him that Zeno is dangerous in his innocence doesn't change that.

Telling someone is dangerous in their innocent doesn't equal life-and-death tournament. Beerus and Champa are also dangerous because they're petty, selfish, arrogance gods who will kill their own team if upset and one nearly destroyed Earth over pudding. Yet, fans pretend they're not sociopaths that Goku needs to stay away from.

You do realise I' agreeing with you, right?

[HeroR]

Yeah, because the tournament doesn't need to happen. AT ALL. There is no compelling reason why to hold it.

Goku may not have intended it, but if you defy warnings and orders to do something that you really do not need to do, only want to do, and unforseen consequences happen because of you, it's on you, partially.

Yeah, he is as responsible as a person driving over the speed limit, drunk, for the deaths of those he hit, even if that person had no intention of killing anynoe, and really believes that he won't get into an accident after being warned not to do so but did so because it's fun.

He may not have a guilty mind, but he is reckless, and that recklessness wold cause untold damage.

So what is Zen'o, the car? Doesn't work since Zen'o has a mind of his own and he's the one who decided to nuke universes. If you say that Goku is the friend who let someone drive home drunk and they crashed the car and killed someone, that may work, but Zen'o is purposely killing people for fun.

You do realise I' agreeing with you, right?

I misread what you wrote. Sorry about that.

[Tonifranz]

Yeah, because the tournament doesn't need to happen. AT ALL. There is no compelling reason why to hold it.

Goku may not have intended it, but if you defy warnings and orders to do something that you really do not need to do, only want to do, and unforseen consequences happen because of you, it's on you, partially.

Yeah, he is as responsible as a person driving over the speed limit, drunk, for the deaths of those he hit, even if that person had no intention of killing anynoe, and really believes that he won't get into an accident after being warned not to do so but did so because it's fun.

He may not have a guilty mind, but he is reckless, and that recklessness wold cause untold damage.

So what is Zen'o, the car? Doesn't work since Zen'o has a mind of his own and he's the one who decided to nuke universes. If you say that Goku is the friend who let someone drive home drunk and they crashed the car and killed someone, that may work, but Zen'o is purposely killing people for fun.

You may be right, but that still doesn't change the fact that if Goku didn't remind Zeno of the tournament, they would not die at all. Yeah, Goku has no guilty mind, but he was still reckless. He is like a drunk driver, or someone who releases wild animals from the zoo becuase it's "fun" and the animals kill people.

I am sorry, but I cannot release Goku from blame here. If he did not remind Zeno of the tournament, nothing bad would have happened!

If Goku is put on trial, he would be acquitted and found not guilty. But would still pay damages for being reckless.

[Kanassa]

Yeah, Goku has no guilty mind, but he was still reckless.

Uh, no, he's not being reckless by reminding Zeno that he wanted to hold a tournament. Doesn't matter if it ends up with severe concequences.

[Tonifranz]

Yeah, Goku has no guilty mind, but he was still reckless.

Uh, no, he's not being reckless by reminding Zeno that he wanted to hold a tournament. Doesn't matter if it ends up with severe concequences.

He was. He was warned not to do so, and was even ordered not to. He still did it. If that's not recklessness, I don't what is!

[Kanassa]

Yeah, Goku has no guilty mind, but he was still reckless.

Uh, no, he's not being reckless by reminding Zeno that he wanted to hold a tournament. Doesn't matter if it ends up with severe concequences.

He was. He was warned not to do so, and was even ordered not to. He still did it. If that's not recklessness, I don't what is!

He was given a very unconvincing warning from someone who (From Goku's perspective) is needlessly paranoid about Zeno. Goku has no reason to think that asking Zeno to hold a tournament means death. Hell, unless Zeno as held death tournaments before, Beerus is being pretty irrational considering he knows by now that Goku is Zeno's best bud.

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

Indirectly, yes.

[Legion]

Yes. Goku was warned by both Beerus and Whis that Zeno is dangerous. Goku saw that Zeno destroyed all Trunks timeline and yet he acts like a fool This time his stupidity will have consequences and Goku will realize this.

[HeroR]

You may be right, but that still doesn't change the fact that if Goku didn't remind Zeno of the tournament, they would not die at all. Yeah, Goku has no guilty mind, but he was still reckless. He is like a drunk driver, or someone who releases wild animals from the zoo becuase it's "fun" and the animals kill people.

I am sorry, but I cannot release Goku from blame here. If he did not remind Zeno of the tournament, nothing bad would have happened!

If Goku is put on trial, he would be acquitted and found not guilty. But would still pay damages for being reckless.

That analogy doesn't work because releasing animals from the zoo is obviously dangerous and you're still comparing Zen'o to a car. A better analogy is Goku making friends with someone that your family says is dangerous and irrational, you make a joke about shooting up Wall Street with them over beers, and the next day they're on the 5'o clock news for shooting up Wall Street. Yeah, you hold some blame for giving the reckless, irrational person the idea of shooting up Wall Street, but the blame is mostly on them since they're the ones who got the gun and shot up Wall Street.

Yes. Goku was warned by both Beerus and Whis that Zeno is dangerous. Goku saw that Zeno destroyed all Trunks timeline and yet he acts like a fool This time his stupidity will have consequences and Goku will realize this.

You're ignoring the context of Future Zen'o destroyed Future Trunks' timeline. He didn't do it for fun. He did it because Merged Zamasu took over the multiverse and was going into other timelines. At that point, there was nothing Zen'o could have done but destroy everything. So from Goku and even Trunks' POV, it was a necessary evil.

[Tonifranz]

Uh, no, he's not being reckless by reminding Zeno that he wanted to hold a tournament. Doesn't matter if it ends up with severe concequences.

He was. He was warned not to do so, and was even ordered not to. He still did it. If that's not recklessness, I don't what is!

He was given a very unconvincing warning from someone who (From Goku's perspective) is needlessly paranoid about Zeno. Goku has no reason to think that asking Zeno to hold a tournament means death. Hell, unless Zeno as held death tournaments before, Beerus is being pretty irrational considering he knows by now that Goku is Zeno's best bud.

I get it. Goku has good intentions. He had no reason to think that it would lead to dire consequences. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just asked many reckless drivers involved in accidents. They did NOT forsee that their actions could kill others. Only it's just fun! Goku is the same.

There was no NEED for a tournament. Nothing of consequence would happen if the tournament did not happen. He should have listened. He should have listened. After all, Beerus is his superior, a God, and even Whis backed him up on it.

[Kanassa]

Yes. Goku was warned by both Beerus and Whis that Zeno is dangerous. Goku saw that Zeno destroyed all Trunks timeline and yet he acts like a fool This time his stupidity will have consequences and Goku will realize this.

Goku isn't asking Zeno to deal with a threat or train or anyhting, he's asking Zeno about the tournament the Omni-Kin wanted to hold. And Zeno is someone who has consistently shown be Goku's buddy, who isn't dangerous unless you fuck with him. It does not make Goku stupid to not see that the Tournament would have a dead loser rule. If he wants to get ice cream for Zeno, should he expect Zeno to suddenly start killing every ice cream man in existence?

[Kanassa]

He was. He was warned not to do so, and was even ordered not to. He still did it. If that's not recklessness, I don't what is!

He was given a very unconvincing warning from someone who (From Goku's perspective) is needlessly paranoid about Zeno. Goku has no reason to think that asking Zeno to hold a tournament means death. Hell, unless Zeno as held death tournaments before, Beerus is being pretty irrational considering he knows by now that Goku is Zeno's best bud.

I get it. Goku has good intentions. He had no reason to think that it would lead to dire consequences. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just asked many reckless drivers involved in accidents. They did NOT forsee that their actions could kill others. Only it's just fun! Goku is the same.

There was no NEED for a tournament. Nothing of consequence would happen if the tournament did not happen. He should have listened. He should have listened. After all, Beerus is his superior, a God, and even Whis backed him up on it.

I'm not arguing the Blae, Goku has part of the blame on him, I'm arguing that it's asinine to think that Goku's actions were reckless or foolish.

[HeroR]

I get it. Goku has good intentions. He had no reason to think that it would lead to dire consequences. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just asked many reckless drivers involved in accidents. They did NOT forsee that their actions could kill others. Only it's just fun! Goku is the same.

There was no NEED for a tournament. Nothing of consequence would happen if the tournament did not happen. He should have listened. He should have listened. After all, Beerus is his superior, a God, and even Whis backed him up on it.

And again, you're comparing Zen'o, a living being with his own will, to care who is at the command of the driver. And being a god doesn't make you a 'superior'. Just like Zamasu being a god didn't make him a superior to mortals where he can past judgment to murder all of them.

[Tonifranz]

That analogy doesn't work because releasing animals from the zoo is obviously dangerous and you're still comparing Zen'o to a car. A better analogy is Goku making friends with someone that your family says is dangerous and irrational, you make a joke about shooting up Wall Street with them over beers, and the next day they're on the 5'o clock news for shooting up Wall Street. Yeah, you hold some blame for giving the reckless, irrational person the idea of shooting up Wall Street, but the blame is mostly on them since they're the ones who got the gun and shot up Wall Street.

What if that person honestly believes that the animals would not hurt anybody, because he's an animal lover?

No, I'm using that analogy to compare intentions. Nobody is arguing that Goku deliberately wanted to kill 11 universes. What I'm saying is that without Goku reminding Zeno of the tournament, after being repeatedly warned not to, he still did it because he wanted to.

I would understand if there was a pressing NEED to have a tournament. If there would be dire consequences if there was no tournament, then the risks of ignoring all the warnings are justifiable.

If Goku just listened. If he just listened not only to Beerus but to Whis! But he did not. Why? Because he wanted to fight. He did not NEEd to fight all those fighters from all over the multiverse.

Yeah, Goku is reckless. I still maintain that's he's like a drunk driver. What is Zeno? The accident that happened. Zeno would not destroy if Goku did not egg him to hold the tournament.

[Tonifranz]

I get it. Goku has good intentions. He had no reason to think that it would lead to dire consequences. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just asked many reckless drivers involved in accidents. They did NOT forsee that their actions could kill others. Only it's just fun! Goku is the same.

There was no NEED for a tournament. Nothing of consequence would happen if the tournament did not happen. He should have listened. He should have listened. After all, Beerus is his superior, a God, and even Whis backed him up on it.

And again, you're comparing Zen'o, a living being with his own will, to care who is at the command of the driver. And being a god doesn't make you a 'superior'. Just like Zamasu being a god didn't make him a superior to mortals where he can past judgment to murder all of them.

Yes I will continue to compare Gokuk to a drunk driver, because that's how he acted in this episode.

That's doesn't matter if Beerus is in actuality, superior. In the context of the story, he is an authority above Goku, a god, higher in hierarchy, who Goku should have listened to and obeyed. If not Beerus, then he should have listened to Whis.

Goku still ignored warnings just to get something he does not NEED. Only wanted. Tell me, would some dire thing happen if Goku listened to Beerus and Whis and went back to earth?