Are the Namekians stronger than the Saiya-jin?

[James R. Cadwell]

SO... it seems that if they stay as SSJs all the time, they can get the power of a Ultra Super Sayajin without getting slower(the burden added to the body that Vegeta mentions). Or so I think. What's your opnion about these quotes?

If the translations are correct, there's no implication that maintaining the Super Saiya-jin form 24/7 increases power.

Vegeta: Kakarotto must have realized that it's best to keep that state all the time. If you're used to that state, even if the fighting force has increased, only a small burden will be added to the body.

{Trunks:} [thinking] I see. So just the transformation of the body is useless. That's why I couldn't beat Cell.

This is how I interpreted that quote:

Vegeta: Kakarotto must have realized that it's best to maintain Super Saiya-jin all of the time. If you have become accustomed to that form, even if you get stronger, the transformation only becomes slightly more of a burden (i.e. difficult, strenuous.)

It seems to me that Vegeta is saying you can become stronger without straining your body by remaining in the Super Saiya-jin form constantly. As opposed to becoming stronger and then collapsing from exhaustion.

If we're talking about original Saiyans vs current Nameks, then Nameks are stronger. If we're talking about original Saiyans vs pre-catastrophe Nameks, then who knows?

Can Piccolo/Kami be used as an example of a pre-catastrophe Namekian? Nail said that Piccolo probably would have been strong enough to defeat Freeza if he had come to Namek as a "complete Namekian". Nail may have thought that 530,000 was the strongest that Freeza could get, so I'd assume Nail expected Piccolo/Kami to be somewhere in that neighborhood.

[PsyLiam]

But he also might have been assuming that Piccolo's strength at that moment was half of the original strength of pre-split Kami/Piccolo, when it wasn't. Even at that point in the series, Piccolo was far stronger than Kami. If Nail's assumptions were based on Piccolo fusing with someone of his same level of strength, then they're off.

Although that also doesn't make sense, since Nail was far stronger than Kami. Maybe fusing with someone you've originally split form boosts your power more?

As to whether they're a good example of old Nameks...I would say no. For one thing, Kami could make Dragon Balls, which had to be a rare talent. For another...one person is never good if you're trying to generalise what a whole species is like.

[James R. Cadwell]

But he also might have been assuming that Piccolo's strength at that moment was half of the original strength of pre-split Kami/Piccolo, when it wasn't. Even at that point in the series, Piccolo was far stronger than Kami. If Nail's assumptions were based on Piccolo fusing with someone of his same level of strength, then they're off. Although that also doesn't make sense, since Nail was far stronger than Kami. Maybe fusing with someone you've originally split form boosts your power more?

Nail probably just meant "had you fused with Kami before coming here, you would be strong enough to defeat Freeza", as opposed to "the original, complete Kami/Piccolo was stronger than Freeza". Which could easily be true, regardless of how weak Kami was.

Say Namekian fusion multiplies the combined power of two warriors by, eh, twenty. Let's also say that Piccolo was as strong as Vegeta was when he first arrived on Earth.

So Nail (45,000) + Piccolo (25,000) * 20 = Fused Namekian (1,400,000).

Just strong enough to beat second form Freeza, which fits with what actually happened. So at that very same point in the series:

Piccolo (25,000) + Kami (300) * 20 = Fused Namekian (500,000 or so).

Strong enough to beat first form Freeza with a little difficulty. That fits with Nail's comments.

As to whether they're a good example of old Nameks...I would say no. For one thing, Kami could make Dragon Balls, which had to be a rare talent. For another...one person is never good if you're trying to generalise what a whole species is like.

I agree about generalizing species with only a single representative. But about the Dragon Balls: was Dende exceptional in any way? Wasn't he sent to become the new god of Earth just because he was ready and wanted to go?

[PsyLiam]

True. But wasn't he of the same clan as Kami? Perhaps that clan had special Dragon Ball making powers?

And I can't see how that would be Piccolo's power level when he arrived on Namek. He was at a little over 1,200 when Vegeta and Nappa turned up. Sure, that was his resting power level, and it probably went up during the fight, but not by that much. Around 4,000 odd, maybe?

And then he died, and went to Kaio's for, what, 3-4 days? And he managed to quintuple his power? That's pretty impressive. Or have I missed a power-up somewhere?

As it is, I always thought that the Nail fusion produced the most outrageous and over-the-top power increasing ever seen in Dragon Ball Z.

[James R. Cadwell]

And I can't see how that would be Piccolo's power level when he arrived on Namek. He was at a little over 1,200 when Vegeta and Nappa turned up. Sure, that was his resting power level, and it probably went up during the fight, but not by that much. Around 4,000 odd, maybe? And then he died, and went to Kaio's for, what, 3-4 days? And he managed to quintuple his power? That's pretty impressive. Or have I missed a power-up somewhere?

Yes, 25,000 doesn't really make much sense. But as implausible as it seems, Piccolo should have been stronger than Nappa and possibly Saiya-jin Saga Vegeta. He did say that he had powered-up considerably and he believed he might be able to defeat Freeza. I doubt he was thinking to himself:

Piccolo: Wish me to Namek! I've surely become strong enough to defeat Freeza, even though I'm still weaker than Nappa and Vegeta, who incidentally were not capable of fighting him.

[Neon Z]

This is how I interpreted that quote:

Vegeta: Kakarotto must have realized that it's best to maintain Super Saiya-jin all of the time. If you have become accustomed to that form, even if you get stronger, the transformation only becomes slightly more of a burden (i.e. difficult, strenuous.)

But, what about Trunks comment that "just" transformation of the body is useless? Doesn't that imply that they arem using transfomation + something else? The only other element that he could be talking about is the base SSJ.