The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[TheUltimateNinja]

Do you think everyone on universe 6 was God tier? And base Cabba who didn't even know about ssj is as strong as ssj Vegito?

Not all of them no, especially since the "god tier" is so broad and it's hard to define where it's starts. Only Hit is definitely god tier. But all of them are pretty strong, stronger than Boo saga high tiers, like Super Boo or Gotenks. They'd have to be to tangle with Goku and Vegeta without getting annihilated instantly.

And who's to say Goku and Vegeta weren't holding back? Vegeta clearly wasn't going all out against Cabba.

[dragon boss z]

Do you think everyone on universe 6 was God tier? And base Cabba who didn't even know about ssj is as strong as ssj Vegito?

Not all of them no, especially since the "god tier" is so broad and it's hard to define where it's starts. Only Hit is definitely god tier. But all of them are pretty strong, stronger than Boo saga high tiers, like Super Boo or Gotenks. They'd have to be to tangle with Goku and Vegeta without getting annihilated instantly.

We don't know how strong Goku and Vegeta are supposed to be or how much they were holding back. One second ssj Cabba was pushing Vegeta, the next he couldn't even phase him. Piccolo is the only one we kind of can pin point, and he should still be around perfect Cell level. The only ones who could be high tier buu saga tier are Magetta, ssj Caba, and final form Frost, but I don't think any of them are high tier buu saga, I would say low to mid tier.

[dragon boss z]

Do you think everyone on universe 6 was God tier? And base Cabba who didn't even know about ssj is as strong as ssj Vegito?

Not all of them no, especially since the "god tier" is so broad and it's hard to define where it's starts. Only Hit is definitely god tier. But all of them are pretty strong, stronger than Boo saga high tiers, like Super Boo or Gotenks. They'd have to be to tangle with Goku and Vegeta without getting annihilated instantly.

And who's to say Goku and Vegeta weren't holding back? Vegeta clearly wasn't going all out against Cabba.

Ya I do think they were holding back. But some people say that doesn't make sense. But my scale was talking about the power they used in the tournament. I think it may actually be implied they were holding back, especially since base Goku was able to make Hit bleed.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Not all of them no, especially since the "god tier" is so broad and it's hard to define where it's starts. Only Hit is definitely god tier. But all of them are pretty strong, stronger than Boo saga high tiers, like Super Boo or Gotenks. They'd have to be to tangle with Goku and Vegeta without getting annihilated instantly.

And who's to say Goku and Vegeta weren't holding back? Vegeta clearly wasn't going all out against Cabba.

Ya I do think they were holding back. But some people say that doesn't make sense. But my scale was talking about the power they used in the tournament. I think it may actually be implied they were holding back, especially since base Goku was able to make Hit bleed.

Vegeta was actually shown to be holding back against Cabba. Initially it looks they're even as SSJs, but once he gets serious he easily tanks Cabba's punch.

[dragon boss z]

And who's to say Goku and Vegeta weren't holding back? Vegeta clearly wasn't going all out against Cabba.

Ya I do think they were holding back. But some people say that doesn't make sense. But my scale was talking about the power they used in the tournament. I think it may actually be implied they were holding back, especially since base Goku was able to make Hit bleed.

Vegeta was actually shown to be holding back against Cabba. Initially it looks they're even as SSJs, but once he gets serious he easily tanks Cabba's punch.

Yes, I know. Which is more evidence that Buu could take Cabba or Frost.

[ryan s]

This is just something that came into my head, if Beerus and Champa fighting means the destruction of the multiverse because they are that powerful, would that not make Merged Zamasu and Vegetto weaker than them?

We know gods of destruction are selected on their strength, so we know the destruction of the multiverse would be based on their power and not another factor.

[Abel Taylor]

Seeing how Gowasu and Kaioshin were awed at Merged Zamasu (Gowasu said he "far surpassed gods"), and that Vegetto was stronger than him, I think they both surpass Beerus.

Also, if Goku Black was even approaching the level of a God of Destruction, I'm sure potara would make him far stronger, especially for Goku and Vegeta since they are both on that level (as opposed to Zamasu). Remember how big the gap was between Goku and Gohan Buu? Vegetto then demolisued him as a siper saiyan, and in base if you count the anime's addition.

[ryan s]

That doesn't really answer the question, and that was also not stated at all.

Gowasu "i've never see such a powerful light"
Kaioshin " his standing as a God is beyond our understanding"

these don't have to refer to power, the sources from which the statements come from are unreliable.

Gowasu thought SSJ2 rivaled Beerus and Kaioshin didn't even know how strong Beerus was, as shown in BOG

Beerus sensed Merged Zamasu and didn't even seem to care and so did Whis.

[DBZAOTA482]

That's just guessing though

Isn't that basically we've been doing the whole time? And no, it's just simple power scaling. I don't see a reason why King Chappa wouldn't make those gains.

They were impressed how strong he could hit without touching her. Logically Piccolo's direct attacks were stronger.

If that were the case then they would've commented specifically on him not needing to touch her in order to win and again, they wouldn't even be that impressed let alone stunned if it wasn't meant to be much. Heck, Muten Roshi even speculated that Goku had to put a lot of energy into that shockwave fist move (which we can see clearly for ourselves).

Also, Goku used the same move against Piccolo.

She only thought they were regular humans. Don't you think she would of acted more surprised if regular humans had her fighting at full power?

#18 already saw him knock out Killa (a world-class fighter) like he was nothing so she already know from the jump he was no ordinary human (in fact, he was inhuman *rimshot*). Not to mention she basically called Vegeta a weakling while she noted Trunks was quite strong so it's obvious base level kids are stronger than Android arc SSJ Vegeta.

It just looked like Goku having fun to me.
/quote]
Whatever...

He was afraid he could lose to Goku's full power. That means Chappa<<<Goku holding back<<<Roshi<=>Goku full power

He wasn't going at full speed or hitting at full strength. Since they couldn't sense power levels back then, the only thing they could judge were his movements. And Krillin felt like he had a chance against the Goku he saw hold back.

Goku didn't even use his true powers till his fight with Tien and that's just Krillin, who known for lacking courage, so it's false confidence.

It doesn't have to be more than like a 10% gap.

Seeing as Tien wasn't convinced Chun and Goku had surpassed his master despite their clear superiority in the first round of the tournament to Krillin and Yamcha... it's certainly bigger than 10% I'd say.

Ya but he only said Goku might of been good enough, not both him and Krillin.

Maybe Krillin just not as skilled as Tao... and it's not like he's not the one who defeated him.

A stronger version of Tao beat a stronger version of Chiatzu. Don't see why it would be much diffenve here unless you think Tao's metal parts gave him more of a boost than Ciaotzu's years of intense training.

Well I did said Chiaotzu is an untalented and easy-to-see-through fighter without his telekinesis and bukujutsu so Tao getting a cybernetic designed to kill Goku and Tien could reasonably surpass him.

I'm pretty sure I already pointed out how the 8 arm technique isn't really that impressive. It's nothing compared to one shoting Blue(who arguably has better feats than Chappa) with just his tongue.

But you never actually argued why it's not that impressive.

You know that's not what he meant...

Oh, really?:

Chapter: 115, P10.2
Context: Goku defeated King Chapa.
Jackie Chun: “That was simply…unbelievable…! To stop himself in midair…with a blast of expelled air…like a bomb…!!”
Yamcha: “I…I didn’t think anyone…could defeat King Chapa so easily…!”

We still can't say how much stronger.

Maybe... but most likely a lot by going how the others react.

The only person who said they thought Goku might lose is Yamcha. Yamcha is a scrub who is never right.

Except for Jackie Chun who said his fight would be an uphill battle and when was Yamcha ever proven to be an unreliable source? Last I checked Yamcha is a martial arts expert with tons of fighting knowledge and a bunch of cool techniques. Just get off that memeshit.

Damn, you say you're not biased yet you keep saying shit like this.

[Gog]

The Ultimate Fusion!

Froku!


VS

One Punch Man

[TysonWine]

Beerus is indeed stronger than Vegito and Merged Zamasu. Beerus and Whis' strength have been repeatedly retconned to remain ahead of Goku. That, and potara has been nerfed. This all comes down to the scene where Goku overpowered Merged Zamasu in their beam struggle. Not only did he win the beam struggle, but he also ruined an entire half of Merged Zamasu. It would've been interesting to see what damage would've been done if Zamasu didn't have semi-immortality and regeneration. Goku ain't winning a beam struggle against a serious Beerus. That being said, if potara had the same boost it did in the Buu saga, Vegito should've stomped Zamasu. Instead, they fought pretty evenly, and Vegito seemed frustrated when the final kamehameha didn't end things. Gowasu revealed that the fusion ended prematurely as a result of Vegito putting ALL his power into that attack, so Vegito wasn't holding back.

So, Goku's ability to hurt Merged Zamasu + Vegito's failure to outclass Merged Zamasu = a severely nerfed potara fusion.

Do I like it, no. If the time limit of the fusion was nerfed, it was unnecessary to also nerf the power boost. This could've been fixed easily. All they had to do was make Goku use Kaioken during his beam struggle with Merged Zamasu and everything makes sense. It was even on the writers minds, seeing as though Goku used Kaioken right after that to temporarily knock Merged Zamasu out and destroy his halo. Vegito wouldn't have needed to be nerfed, and it would've kept the retconning of Beerus' power to a more tolerable level.

Your argument may stand as well. When Beerus and Champa clash, the destructive capability is immense right away. Vegito and Merged Zamasu clash didn't threaten the city, let alone the universe. I personally don't like to use that argument (it is valid) because if we get to the point where every fight results in the destruction of the universe there's no where to go from there. Everything has down graded in terms of destructive capability sense BOG saga when Goku and Beerus clashes threatened the universe. Also, we're not sure if Beerus and Champa's status as Gods have anything to do with the universes being destroyed. It may have less to do with power and more of breaking the rule, performing an anomaly that shouldn't occur, because if they're Gods of different universes they shouldn't be in contact to fight in the first place. I mean, Goku does spar with Whis, and I'm pretty sure Beerus has sparred with Whis aswell, which should create more power than Beerus sparring with Champa.

The whole "Their power will destroy the universe!" seems to get thrown around as a crutch to stop a fight rather than showcase power. When Monaka (Beerus) sparred Base Goku their power was enough to blow up the planet. Once again, more destructive capability than Vegito and Merged Zamasu showed.

[ryan s]

I agree with what you said, i do believe it can be used because it has been referenced twice, the implication seems to be that they are at a point where they are so powerful they can't fight each other.

SSG was Goku not being able to control it

[Noah]

Super Saiyan Vegetto [Boo arc; no time limit] vs Magetta.
Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto [Boo arc; no strain or time limit] vs Super Saiyan God Goku [Super].
Super Saiyan Blue Vegetto [Super; no time limit] vs 50% Beerus [Super; No Haikai].

- Super Vegetto trashes Magetta without even breaking a sweat
- I have them as equals but without the strain, Vegetto might win this one with some difficult.
- Merged Zamasu should be around 80% Beerus in my POV, so Vegetto Blue stomp him

If Gohan managed to defeat Lavender, I think Cell would probably do it too. It is implied current Gohan is weaker than SS2 Kid Gohan and Cell was about as strong as Kid Gohan.

Implied where, mate? This is not Boo arc Gohan, what we know is that he became weaker than his 'Mystic' self back then, but is not because he is using SSJ again that he's now have the same power level as his early Boo arc self.

[dragon boss z]

If that were the case then they would've commented specifically on him not needing to touch her in order to win and again, they wouldn't even be that impressed let alone stunned if it wasn't meant to be much. Heck, Muten Roshi even speculated that Goku had to put a lot of energy into that shockwave fist move (which we can see clearly for ourselves).

Also, Goku used the same move against Piccolo.

Actually I just went back and looked at it and nobody really said it was amazing or anything. Only Krillin and Yamcha looked surprised and Roshi looked a little surprised, but that's about it. And I'm not saying the attack wouldn't work in combat vs a fighter on the same level, it's just move of a catch your opponent off guard attack than a finisher.

#18 already saw him knock out Killa (a world-class fighter) like he was nothing so she already know from the jump he was no ordinary human (in fact, he was inhuman *rimshot*).

Even in real life pro fighters get one shot sometimes.

Not to mention she basically called Vegeta a weakling while she noted Trunks was quite strong so it's obvious base level kids are stronger than Android arc SSJ Vegeta.

She was trash talking Vegeta. Frieza talked a lot of smack to ssj Goku and said things like he could win in 30 seconds and how Goku was only the second strongest in the universe. That doesn't make those statements true. Saying the kids in ssj are stronger than android saga ssj Vegeta is one thing, but to say their bases are? That's just crazy talk. Especially when it's already confirmed base BoG Goku is weaker than Frieza in base.

Seeing as Tien wasn't convinced Chun and Goku had surpassed his master despite their clear superiority in the first round of the tournament to Krillin and Yamcha... it's certainly bigger than 10% I'd say.

You would also think that Vegeta and Dadoria's power gap was bigger than 10%, but it wasn't.

Maybe Krillin just not as skilled as Tao... and it's not like he's not the one who defeated him.

Ya, like I said I think Krillin could put up a good fight with Tao. Which is why Goku's dominance is what led Tsuru to believe Goku could of actually won.

Well I did said Chiaotzu is an untalented and easy-to-see-through fighter without his telekinesis and bukujutsu so Tao getting a cybernetic designed to kill Goku and Tien could reasonably surpass him.

He never seemed that strong either. He just had special powers that helped him win his fights. without those powers Krillin would of almost instantly won.

But you never actually argued why it's not that impressive.

Yes I did. I said even a real life human can move their hand so fast you can see its after image. You would probably only have to move you arms a couple dozen times faster than a real person can to do that. And considering Roshi can casually catch bullets from a machine gun, I don't see how it's that impressive. I mean it's obviously impressive compared to most people. Not compared to Tao who moved around mach 8 on his stone pillar and killing super humans with just his tongue.

Oh, really?

Yes... Roshi was clearly saying that the technique was unbelievable.

Chapter: 115, P10.2
Context: Goku defeated King Chapa.
Jackie Chun: “That was simply…unbelievable…! To stop himself in midair…with a blast of expelled air…like a bomb…!!”
Yamcha: “I…I didn’t think anyone…could defeat King Chapa so easily…!”

Yep. Clearly saying how the mouth blast was impressive. I don't see anywhere implying that he thought it was an unbelievable strategy.

Maybe... but most likely a lot by going how the others react.

Well gaining just 50% more power could be considered an extreme amount.

Except for Jackie Chun who said his fight would be an uphill battle and when was Yamcha ever proven to be an unreliable source? Last I checked Yamcha is a martial arts expert with tons of fighting knowledge and a bunch of cool techniques. Just get off that memeshit.

Roshi was just saying it was a tough fight to be the first one. I doubt he ever thought Goku would lose.

Damn, you say you're not biased yet you keep saying shit like this.

Yamcha didn't even have any personal experience with Chappa before. Even if he was a reliable analyzer, how could he analyze someone he's never seen in combat before?

And Goku arguably even went harder than he did on Panput than Chappa. Goku's face was more serious and Tien and Tsuru were surprised at Goku's power.




And then Roshi said he was Trully formidable, but only for the normal man's level.

Goku, Krillin, Yamcha, Tien, and Krillin have gone beyond the normal level, as stated by Roshi. I doubt he puts Chappa in that category. Chappa seems to be treated more like a Panput level opponent. If he really was that much better, why not have Chappa in the tournament instead of Panput? Though I do think Chappa is above Panput considering he actually lasted longer and threw some moves of his own, though Goku could of ended it whenever.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super Sonic vs All of the Angels including the Daishinkan + All of the Hakaishin

[Gog]

Super Sonic vs All of the Angels including the Daishinkan + All of the Hakaishin

Super Sonic gains a new asshole from the complete rape this battle will be. And if not Sonic will as Super Sonic isn't a permanent form. But seriously why would you did you do this to Sonic?

Anyway

One Punch Man VS Froku.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super Sonic vs All of the Angels including the Daishinkan + All of the Hakaishin

Super Sonic gains a new asshole from the complete rape this battle will be. And if not Sonic will as Super Sonic isn't a permanent form. But seriously why would you did you do this to Sonic?

Super Sonic, with the help of Shadow and Silver, was able to defeat Solaris who is superior to Zeno. Honestly the Gods are probably the ones who get annihilated here.

[Gog]

Super Sonic vs All of the Angels including the Daishinkan + All of the Hakaishin

Super Sonic gains a new asshole from the complete rape this battle will be. And if not Sonic will as Super Sonic isn't a permanent form. But seriously why would you did you do this to Sonic?

Super Sonic, with the help of Shadow and Silver, was able to defeat Solaris who is superior to Zeno. Honestly the Gods are probably the ones who get annihilated here.

Feats for Solaris otherwise what's to stop him from being just a mountain tier scrub? Honestly as of right now the god's resurrect Freeza because they can't be bothered handing Super Sonic's golden arse back to him.

[jamiljamtheman]

I'm sure this has been asked a million times before, but is Movie-5 Cooler even as strong or stronger than Namek-Frieza? (I would classify this as M5-Cooler vs Namek-Frieza)

I always thought that he would be, given that the movies tend to have strong villains, but upon rewatching the movie recently I realized that:

- In his "final" (as in, like Frieza's final) form, at best he is toe-to-toe with base Goku. Now, I haven't actually watched the full Frieza arc, but from the part I saw in Kai I recall final form Frieza giving Goku quite the run for his money, hence Goku having to transform in order to gain an upper hand. But, in the same form, it seems Cooler would have been handled pretty well by base Goku, perhaps with help from Kaio Ken.

- When Cooler transforms into his true final form, he does completely overpower base Goku, even when Goku used Kaio Ken. But, once Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan it's game over for Cooler. Cooler simply could not hold up against Super Saiyan Goku, and had to use distraction and wit to gain any semblance of an upper hand. Again, I do remember that Frieza (in a form technically below Cooler's, mind you) and Super Saiyan Goku battled for a long time and I can't imagine it was this one-sided if it was that long.

This leads me to believe that, according to Movie 5, either: Goku has become ridiculously stronger since the Namek battle, or Cooler is most definitely weaker than Frieza despite having an extra transformation. So I'm curious how Cooler even holds up against his brother.

(I specified Movie 5 because in Movie 6, Meta-Cooler more than holds his own against two Super Saiyans and that seems pretty obviously stronger than Namek-Frieza to me)

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super Sonic gains a new asshole from the complete rape this battle will be. And if not Sonic will as Super Sonic isn't a permanent form. But seriously why would you did you do this to Sonic?

Super Sonic, with the help of Shadow and Silver, was able to defeat Solaris who is superior to Zeno. Honestly the Gods are probably the ones who get annihilated here.

Feats for Solaris otherwise what's to stop him from being just a mountain tier scrub? Honestly as of right now the god's resurrect Freeza because they can't be bothered handing Super Sonic's golden arse back to him.

Solaris is capable of consuming all existing timelines and destroying time itself, it's also a nigh omni-present transcendent life form that exists in the past, present and future at the same time. By contrast Zeno can only destroy 1 timeline at a time and isn't a transcendent being.