Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
"God don't have enough power to bring people back to life" said Piccolo to Buma and others, after Radditz, and it was said couple times, that Shenlong cannot grand wishes, that require more power than its creator have.
My Twitter: @kamil198811
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
While God is capable of creating a dragon with great power, that doesn't necessarily mean he can utilize those powers, too. I certainly can't compute faster than a robot because I built it.
Last edited by Nejishiki on Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:50 am
- Location: Spain
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
I don't have any problem with the Dragon Balls being able to do that, but I do think it would have been interesting, story-wise, if they had had that limitation. It would have made death seem less cheap in the Dragon World. Not that I have a problem with characters coming back from the dead, but since the only time they tried to ask Shenron to kill he said he couldn't, they could have had the same limitations as Aladdin's Genie ![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
I'm a webcomic artist! Check out http://tapastic.com/series/Hearts
Spoiler:
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Yes, but not after the second trimester because I'm morally opposed to it.
Last edited by Cipher on Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Unfortunately, Dragon Ball (specifically, the moment you're referencing) predates Disney's Aladdin. Toriyama can't be inspired by something that doesn't exist!UltimateHammerBro wrote:Not that I have a problem with characters coming back from the dead, but since the only time they tried to ask Shenron to kill he said he couldn't, they could have had the same limitations as Aladdin's Genie
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:50 am
- Location: Spain
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
In the alternate reality I'm talking about, Toriyama INSPIRED Disney's AladdinNejishiki wrote:Unfortunately, Dragon Ball (specifically, the moment you're referencing) predates Disney's Aladdin. Toriyama can't be inspired by something that doesn't exist!UltimateHammerBro wrote:Not that I have a problem with characters coming back from the dead, but since the only time they tried to ask Shenron to kill he said he couldn't, they could have had the same limitations as Aladdin's Genie
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
I'm a webcomic artist! Check out http://tapastic.com/series/Hearts
Spoiler:
- Cure Dragon 255
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5342
- Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Cipher wrote:Yes, but not after the second trimester because I'm morally opposed to it.
Where have you and your amazing posts been all my life? LOL
Spoiler:
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20300
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Yeah, but this is magic. Magic is inherently illogical.Nejishiki wrote:While God is capable of creating a dragon with great power, that doesn't necessarily mean he can utilize those powers, too. I certainly can't compute faster than a robot because I built it.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:50 am
- Location: Spain
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Yet not everything related to magic has to be illogical. If we accept that a dragon can be summoned by seven balls and grant a wish, and there are certain rules to the wishes he can grant, we've built an internal logic we can follow. It doesn't work in the real world, but it does in universe.ABED wrote:Yeah, but this is magic. Magic is inherently illogical.Nejishiki wrote:While God is capable of creating a dragon with great power, that doesn't necessarily mean he can utilize those powers, too. I certainly can't compute faster than a robot because I built it.
I'm a webcomic artist! Check out http://tapastic.com/series/Hearts
Spoiler:
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20300
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
It's fictional, so while within the world, you need to set up some rules, it's ultimately arbitrary because magic is illogical. Why can't Kami bring back people to life even though the Dragon Balls can? Ultimately it's just because the writer says so. That was my point, sorry if that wasn't clear.UltimateHammerBro wrote:Yet not everything related to magic has to be illogical. If we accept that a dragon can be summoned by seven balls and grant a wish, and there are certain rules to the wishes he can grant, we've built an internal logic we can follow. It doesn't work in the real world, but it does in universe.ABED wrote:Yeah, but this is magic. Magic is inherently illogical.Nejishiki wrote:While God is capable of creating a dragon with great power, that doesn't necessarily mean he can utilize those powers, too. I certainly can't compute faster than a robot because I built it.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- nickzambuto
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:53 pm
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
I don't see a problem with Kami possessing the knowledge and power to create a deity with abilities that surpass his own in certain respects. The dragon can not physically effect beings stronger than its creator without their permission; that's the only such rule placed on Shenron. It doesn't mean that Shenron can only do things Kami can already do.
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:50 am
- Location: Spain
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Yeah, I get it now.ABED wrote:It's fictional, so while within the world, you need to set up some rules, it's ultimately arbitrary because magic is illogical. Why can't Kami bring back people to life even though the Dragon Balls can? Ultimately it's just because the writer says so. That was my point, sorry if that wasn't clear.UltimateHammerBro wrote:Yet not everything related to magic has to be illogical. If we accept that a dragon can be summoned by seven balls and grant a wish, and there are certain rules to the wishes he can grant, we've built an internal logic we can follow. It doesn't work in the real world, but it does in universe.ABED wrote: Yeah, but this is magic. Magic is inherently illogical.
I agree that it's illogical after all, but it's not bad to have an explanation which makes sense within the universe of the series, even if we know that, out of universe, it's that way because Toriyama wants it to be that way.
I'm a webcomic artist! Check out http://tapastic.com/series/Hearts
Spoiler:
- floofychan333
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1377
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:03 pm
- Location: Ottawa, Canada
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
It's pretty much necessary by now to have the Dragon Balls revive people. If they repealed that now, then death would have real consequences and the series would be way different.
"All of you. All of you must have KILL all the SEASONS!" -Dough (Tenshinhan), Speedy Dub of Movie 9.
"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu
"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu
- SingleFringe&Sparks
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1642
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 pm
- Location: Mt. Paozu/East District
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Well, I do think that the near limitless revival thing is making death pointless, to now it's gotten to the point why they even get worried or care if people die in front of them while knowing this. I mean when you could only bring back a character once, it did have weight if the were killed again, but then you could argue that the limit of one time would hold the series back from the fact that killing the Z-fighters is the only real source of tension and motivation to "get serious" most of the characters have. I really don't know what the alternative would be.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Elder Kai said in Manga, that when Dragon Balls are used outside Namek, they create chaos in the universe, GT picked that idea with Shadow Dragons, maybe Super will do something similar?SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:Well, I do think that the near limitless revival thing is making death pointless, to now it's gotten to the point why they even get worried or care if people die in front of them while knowing this. I mean when you could only bring back a character once, it did have weight if the were killed again, but then you could argue that the limit of one time would hold the series back from the fact that killing the Z-fighters is the only real source of tension and motivation to "get serious" most of the characters have. I really don't know what the alternative would be.
My Twitter: @kamil198811
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015
- Lord Frieza
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3801
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Well you have three options if the series was to continue as it did
One: the Dragon Balls act as the fix all, resurrection machine.
Two: You have to keep coming up with new ways to keep bringing someone back to life.
Three: You characters keep surviving stuff that should have been more then sufficiently fatal.
All of them take away the threat of death and would be contrived but at least the Dragon Balls are a full time part of the series and to not require a continues set up every time someone dies. Plus death, while only temporary, still holds some meaning withing the context of the story and you dont have pull any "you just wait till it grows back" moments.
Let the bad guys abuse the Dragon Balls to. Frieza's resurrection was the beginning of this but it really kicks off in the Zamasu arc.
One: the Dragon Balls act as the fix all, resurrection machine.
Two: You have to keep coming up with new ways to keep bringing someone back to life.
Three: You characters keep surviving stuff that should have been more then sufficiently fatal.
All of them take away the threat of death and would be contrived but at least the Dragon Balls are a full time part of the series and to not require a continues set up every time someone dies. Plus death, while only temporary, still holds some meaning withing the context of the story and you dont have pull any "you just wait till it grows back" moments.
Well it kind of has already. But rather then create some limitation or secret dark consequence, Super opted to go in the other direction.coola wrote:Elder Kai said in Manga, that when Dragon Balls are used outside Namek, they create chaos in the universe, GT picked that idea with Shadow Dragons, maybe Super will do something similar?SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:Well, I do think that the near limitless revival thing is making death pointless, to now it's gotten to the point why they even get worried or care if people die in front of them while knowing this. I mean when you could only bring back a character once, it did have weight if the were killed again, but then you could argue that the limit of one time would hold the series back from the fact that killing the Z-fighters is the only real source of tension and motivation to "get serious" most of the characters have. I really don't know what the alternative would be.
Let the bad guys abuse the Dragon Balls to. Frieza's resurrection was the beginning of this but it really kicks off in the Zamasu arc.
- TheUltimateNinja
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4020
- Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
DB would be vastly improved if the entire series was like the Ocean Dub's Saiyan Arc.Lord Frieza wrote:All of them take away the threat of death and would be contrived but at least the Dragon Balls are a full time part of the series and to not require a continues set up every time someone dies. Plus death, while only temporary, still holds some meaning withing the context of the story and you dont have pull any "you just wait till it grows back" moments.
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Tbh I'm surprised Bardock wasn't actually changed into a brilliant scientist in DB- with all these changes we've seen there.TheUltimateNinja wrote:DB would be vastly improved if the entire series was like the Ocean Dub's Saiyan Arc.Lord Frieza wrote:All of them take away the threat of death and would be contrived but at least the Dragon Balls are a full time part of the series and to not require a continues set up every time someone dies. Plus death, while only temporary, still holds some meaning withing the context of the story and you dont have pull any "you just wait till it grows back" moments.
Do whatever you like, ghost.
- SingleFringe&Sparks
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1642
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 pm
- Location: Mt. Paozu/East District
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Lord Frieza wrote:Well it kind of has already. But rather then create some limitation or secret dark consequence, Super opted to go in the other direction.
Let the bad guys abuse the Dragon Balls to. Frieza's resurrection was the beginning of this but it really kicks off in the Zamasu arc.
Its why I liked the Fusion reborn thing where the afterlife goes in turmoil. Something in regards to managing Souls and the two realms should be connected.
Its just weird how that isn't at all effected. Though I hate the plots of just all the villains come through hell and stuff we've seen more than once, but just something that gets in between them wishing back so many people at once to fix everything or reviving the same people over again so easily.
Its obvious Ocean lampshaded a lot more than they mistranslated/censored in that irony.TheUltimateNinja wrote:DB would be vastly improved if the entire series was like the Ocean Dub's Saiyan Arc.Lord Frieza wrote:All of them take away the threat of death and would be contrived but at least the Dragon Balls are a full time part of the series and to not require a continues set up every time someone dies. Plus death, while only temporary, still holds some meaning withing the context of the story and you dont have pull any "you just wait till it grows back" moments.
- Tenshinhan can grow extra arms.
- They are being sent to "another dimension" and Piccolo casually asked Gohan to just wish him back when its over in the ocean scene.
- Being sent to another dimension sounds like it has more weight than kinda "dying" as the actual series portrays it.
- Minus was a Krypton-Vegeta retcon.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.
Re: Should Dragon Balls be able to bring people back to life?
Yes, how else would the stories continue?coola wrote:"God don't have enough power to bring people back to life" said Piccolo to Buma and others, after Radditz, and it was said couple times, that Shenlong cannot grand wishes, that require more power than its creator have.