"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[kinisking]

I feel like one of the only ones, but I don't mind this chapter at all.
One issue I've noticed people are having is with Blue's energy drain, but it's not new, it was actually mentioned in the Uni 6 Tourny against Hit. Goku mentions that transforming takes a lot of energy, so he's saving it for later. When he transforms into SSJG, Vegeta states that Goku is still trying to save energy which pretty much confirms that the transformation that Goku was talking about was blue.

M Black is nowhere near as good as A Black. It seems like M Black is much more like Zamasu (manga) so I guess it makes sense, but even if it makes sense to me, it still doesn't make a difference. A Black was the man.

I love how Vegeta actually figured out something that Goku hasn't. For once he's the inventor (kinda), but by far, my favourite thing in the chapter, and the manga is that Goku isn't some mentally changed fool. It's not just about the forgetting, in the anime Goku is totally retarded! The part where he's talking to Zamau in this one is similar to how he tried to talk to Buu before Babidi shut it down with threats to Buu, but still Goku realised that Buu was going to kill Babidi at some point which means he could actually read situations like he did here. On the plus side, it looks like anime Super Goku (Uni Survival) isn't as dumb as in the previous arcs.

In the manga version the villians are written worse but I think the heroes are written better. I wish the manga and anime could work together to create the best possible ideas. I'm not a fan of them being so different.

[Noah]

Muh sides.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Wow, that's an interesting read, it makes me wonder if the idea of this arc was purely Toriyama or Toyotaro in its majority.

[Kanassa]

Muh sides.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Wow, that's an interesting read, it makes me wonder if the idea of this arc was purely Toriyama or Toyotaro in its majority.

Do we know if Toriyama has read Toyo's previous works? I don't really know the backgrund context to how he came to write for the manga.

Also, why are people writing off the Spirit Sword coming into play? The humans aren't really needed for it as the manga could easily just have it so Goku and Vegeta's contribution is enough, Hell, maybe Gowasu and Shin will contribute this time (Seriously, they didn't try and give Trunks their Ki when at least Shin should of realised what was happening)

[ekrolo2]

Gohan's lack of panel time should probably clue people in as to how much Toriyama includes him in the outlines.

[Kanassa]

Gohan's lack of panel time should probably clue people in as to how much Toriyama includes him in the outlines.

I'm still going with my theory that Toei is doing damage control with Gohan because they know how much Toriyama is gonna fuck him over in the arc.

[Ki Breaker]

Still think it looks bad on him?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Grimlock]

Still think it looks bad on him?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

That image is bad but no, Super Saiyan God doesn't look bad on Vegeta at all.

[Alruneia]

Still think it looks bad on him?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

"Still" doesn't even apply, but that image makes me want to reconsider...

[Kanassa]

Still think it looks bad on him?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Without the rest of his body in view, it looks... Meh.

[Ki Breaker]

How did you guys not like it
It looked wonderful to me

[Kanassa]

How did you guys not like it
It looked wonderful to me

It looks bland in him. Red just doesn't go with Vegeta.

[sintzu]

Do you think the Gohan-kun promo might only apply to the anime and not the manga? Gosh, I hope that won't be the case...

After the manga's Black arc I think anything's possible.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

I'll always like the anime's explanation of Vegeta achieving God on his own. This is the same person that achieved Super Saiyan by sheer willpower, and it's not like the rest of the cast won't reach BoG-era God level by the end of Super anyway.

[batistabus]

Another great chapter! I love God Vegeta more than I thought I would. The coupon gag is hilarious and this is infinitely better than the anime's take. I don't mind Toyotaro reusing concepts from his manga...they're interesting concepts, and his fan manga is why he was chosen to draw Super.

As far as the villains, I much prefer the manga's Future Zamasu, but I'm unsure about Black. I suppose it makes more sense for Black to act like this, but I just love Nozawa's performance.

[FortuneSSJ]

Once again Toei had the balls to do something creative while Toyotaro doesn't.

What's creative about relying on Goku and Trunks for everything ? Having Vegeta as the main character while those 2 do nothing ? that's something you'll NEVER see Toei do but Toyotaro did it so if anyone has balls it's him. I'd go as far as to say that what we're seeing in the manga is more or less what Toriyama wrote but Toei were too afraid to go with it.

I think there's a misunderstanding here.

When I say Toei is creative, I mean they always try to bring new attacks to the table - SSB + Kaioken, Black's unique attacks (Ki Blade - Ki Sword - KI Scythe), SSI FT Trunks and Genki Sword. While Toyotaro plays too safe and comes out as boring to me. SSB+Kaioken doesn't exist in the manga, Black just uses Goku's/Kaioshin abilities and FT Trunks doesn't unlock anything new (Masenko/Taiyoken aren't new moves).

I wasn't talking about who characters are getting the spotlight there.

[Totamo]

Muh sides.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Wow, that's an interesting read, it makes me wonder if the idea of this arc was purely Toriyama or Toyotaro in its majority.

Do we know if Toriyama has read Toyo's previous works? I don't really know the backgrund context to how he came to write for the manga.

Also, why are people writing off the Spirit Sword coming into play? The humans aren't really needed for it as the manga could easily just have it so Goku and Vegeta's contribution is enough, Hell, maybe Gowasu and Shin will contribute this time (Seriously, they didn't try and give Trunks their Ki when at least Shin should of realised what was happening)

dude or dudet, trunks is by no means as relevant in the manga as the anime. He ain't getting nothing.

[sintzu]

I wasn't talking about who characters are getting the spotlight there.

I know, I just think that chosing Vegeta as the main character over Goku and Trunks is a lot more bold of a move than creating new attacks.

[batistabus]

I apologize for the double post, but I feel like I need to do more to defend this chapter.

Edit: Oh nice, not a double-post anymore. Anyway...

On Vegeta becoming God...
[spoiler]Apparently many people like that in the anime Vegeta was able to learn god ki without the God transformation. I understand that, but I have two problems with that.

1.) God ki belongs to gods, it's not just a super powerful ki (in-universe, plotwise it serves a similar purpose of increased strength).

2.) It takes away from what Goku went through in Battle of Gods and into RoF. He hated that he wasn't able to achieve the power on his own, but he accepted it knowing that it was the only way for him to reach this new stage of growth. If he could achieve it through training all along, that moment of acceptance loses significance.

Even if we do maintain that Vegeta learned how to use god ki without God, if Super Saiyan Blue is the power of Super Saiyan God combined with Super Saiyan, doesn't it stand to reason that tapping into that power could yield that transformation anyway? While Toriyama may have stated in an interview that Goku would be able to use god ki without needing the form, that doesn't seem to be the way things have played out. Again, if Super Saiyan Blue is the power of Super Saiyan God combined with Super Saiyan, if Goku is just Super Saiyan, it doesn't seem that he's using god ki.[/spoiler]

On Vegeta's new technique...
[spoiler]When Goku/Vegeta returned from the future for a day, events played out similarly to the manga. Goku went to Kame Houe to learn the Mafuba, while Vegeta went to the Room of Spirit and Time to "train". Goku learned the Mafuba...and Vegeta acomplished nothing. He does not appear to be significantly stronger, and is less effective with his father-son Garlic-ho than Goku is with a Kamehameha. Vegeta identified a weakness with SSB, trained relentlessly for a year to overcome them, and then was able to surpass Rosé. I personally think this strategy is really cool.

Now, what does this say about Super Saiyan Blue? The anime presents it as incredibly powerful, while also tranquil enough to not strain the body. It seems like the ultimate transformation (especially when paired with Kaioken), and it seems like there is no need for another transformation at this point. However, many have noticed that the Limit Break x Survivor opening seems to imply a new "form" (I use form VERY loosely here). From the first moment I saw this opening, I assumed that Goku had finally learned to master god ki in a passive state, without the need of any sort of transformation (similar to Gohan's "ultimate" form). If these transformations are as draining as the manga portrays them, then such a state would certainly be useful.[/spoiler]

On "power scaling"...
[spoiler]I'm not sure why problems with "power scaling" would ruin a product for someone. I have read that people are upset about the manga's power-scaling...but I'm not sure what there is to complain about, ESPECIALLY compared to the anime. Because Zamasu was able to surprise-kick Vegeta?[/spoiler]

Goku's portrayal and vs Zamasu...
[spoiler]Goku is oblivious sometimes, but he is not a straight-up one-dimensional moron like the anime portrays him for this arc. The manga does a great job of portraying Goku properly, I don't think many would argue this. The anime seems to take a portion of Toriyama's outline and run with it...but it doesn't seem like they understand the character very well. Toriyama writes "Goku doesn't bring the talisman, so the Mafuba fails", so to fill time, Toei makes him break the pot, forget the senzu, and forget the talisman. Toyotaro takes that same plotpoint and turns it into a cheesy (hilarious) perverted gag. For some people, it seems that there's no way that Goku forgetting the talisman would make them happy, but because it exists in both versions, it seems it was Toriyama's idea. Like I said, he's not a complete moron, but he can certainly be absent minded, especially in a rush. Isn't that what Sun Wukong means? Head in the clouds?[/spoiler]

[Cabba]

Muh sides.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Wow, that's an interesting read, it makes me wonder if the idea of this arc was purely Toriyama or Toyotaro in its majority.

I always wondered this
Where can i read the complete Dragon Ball AF manga. Can someone provide me with a link via PM or something

[mfwlegend3]

Can someone provide me with a link via PM or something

Got you fam.