Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Despite what has been announced in regards to this thing not seeing the light of day, I'd wager that it will in someway, shape, or form be put out there at some point.

Why?... Because it's more Dragon Ball. Not to mention that there is still a large, loyal following that's still attached to "the voices that started it all" in English-speaking regions. 200 pages of discussion going on in here should not be taken lightly for something that has been whisperings for the past several years.

If FUNimation were to get the rights to distribute it (if they haven't been secretly involved somehow already), then I can see an "out of the vault" type of thing happening during a "DB drought". It could be 5 years down the road, but I would actually be more surprised if it didn't happen. Or is it just my jaded wishful thinking... ?

FUNimation: "Look, we stumbled upon this while doing some cleaning. Now, the series as it was REALLY originally meant to be seen!"

Silly distribution practices...

[NitroEX]

If FUNimation were to get the rights to distribute it (if they haven't been secretly involved somehow already), then I can see an "out of the vault" type of thing happening during a "DB drought". It could be 5 years down the road, but I would actually be more surprised if it didn't happen.

FUNimation: "Look, we stumbled upon this while doing some cleaning. Now, the series as it was REALLY originally meant to be seen!"

Funimation has no incentive to do that unfortunately. Not only would it undercut their own in-house voice cast but Ocean's service cost (hiring union rate actors in Vancouver + added sound design & music) likely costs more than what Funimation are currently paying to dub DB in Texas, which is a right-to-work state not bound by union restrictions (along with keeping the "original" score, even to their own detriment). The fact that they chose to cast local talent and completely redub Escaflowne for the directors cut over rehiring the Ocean cast should speak for itself really. Whenever possible Funimation will choose their local talent over Ocean, and they aren't the type to frivolously spend money on two dubs either. They only choose to hire Ocean's cast when left with no other option, as was the case for the Black Lagoon OVA, which was a continuation of an Ocean dubbed series.

I personally don't think Funimation had any involvement in this dub. Keep in mind that they had no involvement in the Westwood Z dub or Blue Water dubs prior to this either. All we know is that Funimation knew of Ocean Kai's existence and used their video editing services for the Nicktoons version of Kai, aside from that there's basically nothing to suggest that they were the ones who commissioned it. It's also worth mentioning that the different pronunciation of Namek is another sign that this dub likely isn't produced by Funimation, after all, why would they change their established pronunciation?

[Robo4900]

Funimation could come to some kind of deal to allow whoever produced the dub to release a box set in some countries for a percentage of the profits. It would make a certain amount of business sense. The question is how good the production guys would be at negotiating such a deal.

[NitroEX]

Funimation could come to some kind of deal to allow whoever produced the dub to release a box set in some countries for a percentage of the profits. It would make a certain amount of business sense. The question is how good the production guys would be at negotiating such a deal.

As far as I'm aware that would fall under distributors such as MangaUK rather than Funimation. Unfortunately, MangaUK continues to turn a blind eye to any Ocean dubbed DB material. They didn't even bother acquiring the rights to the Rock the Dragon DVD collection. Maybe that's just a Toei thing but something tells me they aren't too knowledgeable when it comes to DB dubs either. I've tried asking them about Ocean's dub of Kai but as usual. got no response.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Yeah, I think what I was trying to get at though is that in the end... it's Dragon Ball. I understand that there have been many variable factors that have gotten in the way of an official announcement, but - I don't know - something as big as the DB franchise and its distribution history shows some of the unorthodox schemes that may be utilized in getting more stuff out there, in this case a "drought". I look at it as removing all of the finer details and speculations on the history of this dub, and narrowing it down to what it is -- the uncontainable entity that is Dragon Ball. It'll find a way. But yeah, that's the easy answer.

I tied FUNimation into this because it appears that they have a borderline monopoly on dubbing anime in the West, which would seem to favor their influence on the fate of this dub surfacing. It wouldn't make sense financially for FUNi to be involved directly, but indirectly... ? It's not like FUNi hasn't competed with themselves in the past (Season Sets, Dragon Boxes, Level Sets being available at virtually the same time, albeit through their in-house cast). And I'm sure that they have room to play with.

I guess for me it really just boils down to an anomaly occurring -- through the power of the DB brand -- with this dub potentially surfacing rather than sense being made as far as the technical/production/financial side of things goes. Like, it'll just drop out of the sky one day with little info on how or why.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Yeah, I think what I was trying to get at though is that in the end... it's Dragon Ball. I understand that there have been many variable factors that have gotten in the way of an official announcement, but - I don't know - something as big as the DB franchise and its distribution history shows some of the unorthodox schemes that may be utilized in getting more stuff out there, in this case a "drought". I look at it as removing all of the finer details and speculations on the history of this dub, and narrowing it down to what it is -- the uncontainable entity that is Dragon Ball. It'll find a way. But yeah, that's the easy answer.

I tied FUNimation into this because it appears that they have a borderline monopoly on dubbing anime in the West, which would seem to favor their influence on the fate of this dub surfacing. It wouldn't make sense financially for FUNi to be involved directly, but indirectly... ? It's not like FUNi hasn't competed with themselves in the past (Season Sets, Dragon Boxes, Level Sets being available at virtually the same time, albeit through their in-house cast). And I'm sure that they have room to play with.

I guess for me it really just boils down to an anomaly occurring -- through the power of the DB brand -- with this dub potentially surfacing rather than sense being made as far as the technical/production/financial side of things goes. Like, it'll just drop out of the sky one day with little info on how or why.

I agree, whenever people say this dub has missed its window I think yes, it would have been a better move financially for it to have come out before Super at the end of the day it's still Dragon Ball. Look at Funimation's dub of The Final Chapters, it is YEARS overdue, granted not as long as this dub, but it is a similar scenario where even though the novelty has warn off people will still eat it up because of brand name recognition. There's a very vocal crowd of fans who would jump at the chance to experience the show all over again, and having the original, iconic voices for Vegeta and Piccolo return would be a huge selling point even after all this time, especially because for one of those actors it will be his first crack at an accurate dub (Drummond) as well as being the first time since the Pioneer trilogy for the other (McNeil), and there's a good chance this dub will have very similar, if not identical scripts to Funimation.

I also want to see this dub by some miracle drop one day. I'm not sure how that could happen, I guess we just need to keep reaching out to companies like MangaUK, Canadian networks, CSC, etc.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

I hear ya. I've been most intrigued for the obvious ones, like someone that can actually pull off and be dedicated to playing Goku that isn't Schemmel. And a well directed Drummond for the first time in DB. We all know the high regard that's been there for McNeil. I'm from the states, but I have gone back and watched through the Westwood dub a few years ago -- man, was that jarring going from the 'Rock the Dragon' era to that. That whole production had rush-job all over it.

I'm sure that I'm parroting what others have said over the years here, but I feel that this thing not surfacing would be doing that talented group a huge disservice. I'm of the mind that looks at the in-house Season 3 and beyond dub only existing because it was the original Ocean cast that was able to sell that product through their performances that helped to elevate it enough to eventually get more exposure through Toonami back then -- not saying that DB couldn't sell itself though. I know that they are technically not owed anything being the paid pros that they are, but I personally think that they should at least be given another 'nother shot. Since the production overhaul of 1999, I still to this day have not been that impressed by the FUNi in-house cast -- No disrespct to those guys/ladies for doing their best. FUNimation as a company, however, has done some amazing things in making DB easily available for us, even though some of its distribution methods have been questionable at times (cancelled sets).

Anyway, I hope to see this thing one day, then we'll know for sure where the measuring stick for a well-produced English DB dub is at. While I'm anxious to hear another take on these characters, I think my biggest concern would be the replacement soundtrack.

And Lalania Lindbjerg will always be my Bulma...

*It feels so surreal discussing about this 20 years later*

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Look at Funimation's dub of The Final Chapters, it is YEARS overdue, granted not as long as this dub, but it is a similar scenario where even though the novelty has warn off people will still eat it up because of brand name recognition.

Several differences here. Firstly, a Funimation dub of Kai already exists and has done extremely well, setting the precedent not only for airing that version if at all possible. Secondly, despite popular belief, the dub of Kai 2.0 was well within a normal time-scale for a dub, there's nothing comparable to a product that's been recorded and abandoned for the better part of a decade.

I know it's fun to keep up hope, but let's not let it be false hope.

[Robo4900]

Funimation could come to some kind of deal to allow whoever produced the dub to release a box set in some countries for a percentage of the profits. It would make a certain amount of business sense. The question is how good the production guys would be at negotiating such a deal.

As far as I'm aware that would fall under distributors such as MangaUK rather than Funimation. Unfortunately, MangaUK continues to turn a blind eye to any Ocean dubbed DB material. They didn't even bother acquiring the rights to the Rock the Dragon DVD collection. Maybe that's just a Toei thing but something tells me they aren't too knowledgeable when it comes to DB dubs either. I've tried asking them about Ocean's dub of Kai but as usual. got no response.

How did you manage to contact them? Any time I try to E-Mail them, I get a message from Gmail saying it didn't go through.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Look at Funimation's dub of The Final Chapters, it is YEARS overdue, granted not as long as this dub, but it is a similar scenario where even though the novelty has warn off people will still eat it up because of brand name recognition.

Several differences here. Firstly, a Funimation dub of Kai already exists and has done extremely well, setting the precedent not only for airing that version if at all possible. Secondly, despite popular belief, the dub of Kai 2.0 was well within a normal time-scale for a dub, there's nothing comparable to a product that's been recorded and abandoned for the better part of a decade.

I know it's fun to keep up hope, but let's not let it be false hope.

I know the broadcast of Funi's Kai 2.0 dub does not make it any more likely the Ocean dub will air, far from it, but I think both dubs are a case where Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball and even if the product is delayed it will still matter from the perspective of the fandom. I still think its doubtful this dub will be released but if it was it would still be a product the fans would be willing to watch and discuss, the same way there are fans outside Canada, the Netherlands, the UK and Ireland that watched the Westwood, Blue Water and Big Green dubs in their entirety. Even now we've seen certain efforts been made to give the Bang Zoom dub of Super exposure outside Asia. Dragon Ball fans go out of their way to consume the series and its various dubs. The same will be the case for this dub in the unlikely event its ever released. I'm sure if it ever happened we would see comparison videos for the two Kai dubs, discussions on which cast did a better job, the replacement score vs Yamamoto and the Kikuchi placement. Not to mention all the actors will be able to talk freely about their work on this dub, and we'll get never before heard takes on Goku and Freeza by great voice actors. The fact that a niche product, like this dub generated 204 pages of discussion without ever seeing the light of day (other than the theme song) speaks for itself. This dub is a goldmine of curiosity that would more than satisfy the hunger for more Dragon Ball and a new way of experiencing the first three arcs, especially if everything was well done. Whether it matters to broadcasters is a different story and seemingly the problem with this dub's absence to begin with, although given all Ocean Kai has going for it the refusal of any kids network to give it a chance is just plain ignorance or a lack of understanding of how much Dragon Ball matters to a lot of people.

[NitroEX]

Funimation could come to some kind of deal to allow whoever produced the dub to release a box set in some countries for a percentage of the profits. It would make a certain amount of business sense. The question is how good the production guys would be at negotiating such a deal.

As far as I'm aware that would fall under distributors such as MangaUK rather than Funimation. Unfortunately, MangaUK continues to turn a blind eye to any Ocean dubbed DB material. They didn't even bother acquiring the rights to the Rock the Dragon DVD collection. Maybe that's just a Toei thing but something tells me they aren't too knowledgeable when it comes to DB dubs either. I've tried asking them about Ocean's dub of Kai but as usual. got no response.

How did you manage to contact them? Any time I try to E-Mail them, I get a message from Gmail saying it didn't go through.

At the time I just used the contact form on their website. The address for that appears to be info@mangauk.com although it wouldn't surprise me if they don't read these. Apparently you stand a better chance of getting a response by contacting them via Twitter and Facebook so it might be best to try that as well. The two guys who appear to be running things, Jerome Mazandarani and Andrew Hewson appear to be the main guys in charge of things at both MangaUK and their own company, Animatsu. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try and contact them through there as well.

[MistaL]

Okay, so I've gone through everything we know again with a fine toothed comb and even found some new info I wasn't aware of.

The new info is basically well thought out theories from anime fans who seem to be really into tracking the economic and financial situations regarding dubs.

Also, a tweet from Lee Tockar, replying to a question on when it will air from the 8th December 2016.

Best theory I saw was that Funi were actually putting the money up for this alternate dub to put on the Canadian market. But weren't much more hands on with it than that.

Also, Lee Tockar's response was, "Your guess is as good as mine! I really don't know. I hope they release it. I know I read the lines."

That's concerning. If what GodGoku has said is true, then you know, maybe things have changed since December but right now that tweet I is the actual latest from him on the matter.

Sooooo, basically, few options:

1) Toonami returns to Canada
2) Corus Entertainment air more anime which hopefully becomes more popular in the mainstream
3) Ocean & whoever financed the dub try and collaborate with Funi to get a box set

Right now I'm just trying positive thinking on the the back of sheer blind faith… well, that and building Ocean cast effigies in my closet o_O

Ayoo, that tweet was replying to me! I hope we get some official word soon. It's been far too long!

[8000 Saiyan]

Okay, so I've gone through everything we know again with a fine toothed comb and even found some new info I wasn't aware of.

The new info is basically well thought out theories from anime fans who seem to be really into tracking the economic and financial situations regarding dubs.

Also, a tweet from Lee Tockar, replying to a question on when it will air from the 8th December 2016.

Best theory I saw was that Funi were actually putting the money up for this alternate dub to put on the Canadian market. But weren't much more hands on with it than that.

Also, Lee Tockar's response was, "Your guess is as good as mine! I really don't know. I hope they release it. I know I read the lines."

That's concerning. If what GodGoku has said is true, then you know, maybe things have changed since December but right now that tweet I is the actual latest from him on the matter.

Sooooo, basically, few options:

1) Toonami returns to Canada
2) Corus Entertainment air more anime which hopefully becomes more popular in the mainstream
3) Ocean & whoever financed the dub try and collaborate with Funi to get a box set

Right now I'm just trying positive thinking on the the back of sheer blind faith… well, that and building Ocean cast effigies in my closet o_O

Ayoo, that tweet was replying to me! I hope we get some official word soon. It's been far too long!

Hey, Lee! Big fan of your work. Let me ask you this: did you and your fellow voice actors record an uncut version of Kai?

[MistaL]

Okay, so I've gone through everything we know again with a fine toothed comb and even found some new info I wasn't aware of.

The new info is basically well thought out theories from anime fans who seem to be really into tracking the economic and financial situations regarding dubs.

Also, a tweet from Lee Tockar, replying to a question on when it will air from the 8th December 2016.

Best theory I saw was that Funi were actually putting the money up for this alternate dub to put on the Canadian market. But weren't much more hands on with it than that.

Also, Lee Tockar's response was, "Your guess is as good as mine! I really don't know. I hope they release it. I know I read the lines."

That's concerning. If what GodGoku has said is true, then you know, maybe things have changed since December but right now that tweet I is the actual latest from him on the matter.

Sooooo, basically, few options:

1) Toonami returns to Canada
2) Corus Entertainment air more anime which hopefully becomes more popular in the mainstream
3) Ocean & whoever financed the dub try and collaborate with Funi to get a box set

Right now I'm just trying positive thinking on the the back of sheer blind faith… well, that and building Ocean cast effigies in my closet o_O

Ayoo, that tweet was replying to me! I hope we get some official word soon. It's been far too long!

Hey, Lee! Big fan of your work. Let me ask you this: did you and your fellow voice actors record an uncut version of Kai?

I'm not Lee, haha. I said his tweet was in response to mine. I asked him if he knew anything, and the tweet quoted was a reply to my tweet. Sorry to confuse you.

[SX10]

Hey MistaL!

I messaged him recently (before I went looking and saw his reply to your tweet) and totally no reply I fee we will definitely see this dub, god knows when. Sad that no one can tell us anything definitive.

[Robo4900]

There will be no DVD release of any of Ocean's Dragon Ball dubs in the UK.

So, Canada is probably our only hope for a box set.

As for TV airings... Anyone have an E-Mail address or Twitter for CN UK? I can't seem to find one that works.

[NitroEX]

I figured that'd be the case... The bastards.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I honestly don't see why MangaUK can't just do a Collector's Edition-type release. Their Dragon Ball releases have pretty much no way of distinguishing themselves by content or aesthetically from Funimation's releases other than some different cover arts for the DB and DBZ (Season 8 ) sets. Unless Funimation somehow locked down their dub for home video rights in the UK the Ocean and Blue Water dubs are MangaUK's opportunity. It would also be an excuse for the hardcore collectors to import from the UK.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Unless Funimation somehow locked down their dub for home video rights in the UK...

Bingo.

The only way the Ocean dub of Kai will ever get a home video release is if FUNimation OKs it, and there are a number of hurdles in the way of that happening.

[NitroEX]

Unless Funimation somehow locked down their dub for home video rights in the UK...

Bingo.

The only way the Ocean dub of Kai will ever get a home video release is if FUNimation OKs it, and there are a number of hurdles in the way of that happening.

Doesn't make sense. Why would Funimation have any control over the UK? It's more likely to be Toei Europe or MangaUK (the current UK distributors of Dragon Ball home video) who are to blame here. Funimation could be to blame for the Canada situation as that does fall under North American territory, although, that didn't seem to hinder the previous Ocean & Blue Water dubs making it to TV over there. That's probably just the TV execs being assholes finicky, as per usual.

If I had to take a serious guess why this is the case for the Z/GT dubs; MangaUK probably just don't want to fork over the money necessary to secure those dubs from AB Groupe (who've now been acquired by Mediawan). Plus there's also the fact that Ocean's Z dub is incomplete, though that didn't stop Funimation from cashing in on the RTD set... Nostalgia sells regardless but I guess that's beside the point.

As for Kai, who knows really. I guess it could be another Toei blockade or perhaps AB Groupe once again hold the rights to Ocean's dub like they did last time? It's really hard to say without any further leads on the company who commissioned it.