Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[SansrivaaL]

At this point I'm curious as to what madness it could take to close the thread, Goku being weaker than Namek Freeza still?

Goku turning SSJB having a mafuuba clash with buff Roshi.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I'm liking the powerscaling. Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan are looking to be high Buu-Saga levels of power in base form. Honestly, I just like the idea of a strong base and by extension Super Saiyan forms, and then god level. Keeps things simple whilst allowing our heroes to make significant gains.

Interestingly, however, when Gohan went to find Piccolo, the slug person who is not a demon said he'd re-train that weak body of Gohan's.

Piccolo stronger than Buu now? XD

But seriously, Piccolo is probably the next best martial arts teacher after Whis in terms of helping his student Gohan make gains.

[Speedster]

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

[SansrivaaL]

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

At least theres another one here who see's theres something wrong with all this BS instead of defending it.
Basically their counter argument to this is
Beerus slapped Bulma but it just knocked her out.
17 never trained but has a higher powerlevel than Freeza, if Freeza can train for months and improve that much, 17 had years.

[emperior]

I've made a Tier List of Super. The characters are listed in order of power, though characters in the same tier are very close, if not equal, in terms of power.
I only take into account the most recent power level (that's why Goku/Vegeta SSB > Golden Freezer)

Spoiler:

Goku SSB KKx2

Spoiler:

Vegeta SSB
Black SSR
Future Trunks SSJ Rage
Bergamo (Limit)
Toppo
Hit
Goku SSB

Spoiler:

Trunks SSJ2
Black
Future Zamasu
Golden Freezer
Goku SSJ3

Spoiler:

Vegeta SSJ2
Goku SSJ2
Gohan SSJ2
Zamasu
Magetta

Spoiler:

Vegeta SSJ
Goku SSJ
Cabba SSJ
Gohan SSJ

Spoiler:

Final Form Frost
Vegeta
Majin Buu
Goku
Bergamo
Gohan
Cabba
Lavender
Basil
Final Form Freezer

Spoiler:

Piccolo
Tagoma
Botamo
Kid Trunks SSJ
Goten SSJ
C-18

Spoiler:

Krillin
Tenshinan
Kid Trunks
Goten

[ekrolo2]

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

This is precisely my reaction to whenever says "Oh x character is holding back!" after they transform. Yeah, why don't they just hold back in their Base forms which are already leagues above their opponent as is the case with Goku and Krillin? What the actual fuck is the rationale for boosting one's self hundreds of times over then dropping back down to levels that Base can accomplish just fine?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

This is precisely my reaction to whenever says "Oh x character is holding back!" after they transform. Yeah, why don't they just hold back in their Base forms which are already leagues above their opponent as is the case with Goku and Krillin? What the actual fuck is the rationale for boosting one's self hundreds of times over then dropping back down to levels that Base can accomplish just fine?

The squabble between the Kaioshin of Universe 2 and 3 put it best, really.

Universe 3: POWER LEVELS!

Universe 2: Stop being a dummy, intelligence is the name of the game.

[namekiansaiyan]

I'm liking the powerscaling. Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan are looking to be high Buu-Saga levels of power in base form. Honestly, I just like the idea of a strong base and by extension Super Saiyan forms, and then god level. Keeps things simple whilst allowing our heroes to make significant gains.

Interestingly, however, when Gohan went to find Piccolo, the slug person who is not a demon said he'd re-train that weak body of Gohan's.

Piccolo stronger than Buu now? XD

But seriously, Piccolo is probably the next best martial arts teacher after Whis in terms of helping his student Gohan make gains.

Piccolo has probably been training since the last tournament as he knew this tournament was coming. Going on the tone of voice and what he said in episode 85 he seems to be a lot stronger than before.

[The gr]

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

I agree,the show didn't acknowledge goku was holding back, thus making his performance against krillin trivial, next week better answer this question.they could've have fixed This issue by goku fighting in his Base form with krillin and pull a vegeta, instant​ ko krillin with ssb.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

It was never explicitly stated by Cell that he was holding back any power when he sent Mr Satan flying into a mountain at the Cell Games. And Beerus didn't mention he was using 0.00001% of his power to slap Bulma and not instantly kill her.

[ekrolo2]

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

This is precisely my reaction to whenever says "Oh x character is holding back!" after they transform. Yeah, why don't they just hold back in their Base forms which are already leagues above their opponent as is the case with Goku and Krillin? What the actual fuck is the rationale for boosting one's self hundreds of times over then dropping back down to levels that Base can accomplish just fine?

The squabble between the Kaioshin of Universe 2 and 3 put it best, really.

Universe 3: POWER LEVELS!

Universe 2: Stop being a dummy, intelligence is the name of the game.

Which doesn't make sense when PLs are clearly the deciding factor. Even the new stuff reaffirms this with how Goku beats Hit, he comes up with a legitimate strategy to counter Hit's primary advantage then Hit's power grows and Goku needs to make his grow even bigger to not get stomped. It all devolved back into who's got the bigger number by the end anyway.

[zamasu121]

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

It was never explicitly stated by Cell that he was holding back any power when he sent Mr Satan flying into a mountain at the Cell Games. And Beerus didn't mention he was using 0.00001% of his power to slap Bulma and not instantly kill her.

Bulma is clearly god tier, it's pretty obvious since Beerus didn't mention he was holding back

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

It was never explicitly stated by Cell that he was holding back any power when he sent Mr Satan flying into a mountain at the Cell Games. And Beerus didn't mention he was using 0.00001% of his power to slap Bulma and not instantly kill her.

Bulma is clearly god tier, it's pretty obvious because Beerus didn't mention he was holding back

He even had to wind up to do so, and was smirking because he got to use his full power

[buutenks]

I prefer this, over everyone but Vegeta getting left in the dust.

And i really really hope 17 will match ssj blue without even trying. Would be a nice upgrade for him. Plus the outcry will be hilarious.

Also, i think u all are clinging way to much to Buu saga PL, Buu saga lvl of power is weak in the whole multiverse. each new arc brings in stronger characters, and now they are making the characters that werent very strong relevant.

Oh and clearly base Goku is super strong, he isnt Buu saga base level or what not. He is easily in the upper tier of the Buu saga(buuhan++ level) just in base form.

And Fit Buu proly far surpassed Buuhan.

Now i want fem Broly to be ssj blue++ level and all will be complete.

[SaiyanGod117]

If Goku's base is Buuhann level than why did he have trouble with Krillin?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

If Goku's base is Buuhann level than why did he have trouble with Krillin?

Because Toei and Toriyama are trying to beat us over the head with the idea that skill and strategy are what will be the most important in a battle royal of eighty fighters on a single fighting stage of various power levels and abilities where the only way to win is to ring out other fighters.

[buutenks]

If Goku's base is Buuhann level than why did he have trouble with Krillin?

Pretty sure thats a feat for krillin, not the other way around.

[Marlowe89]

Also, i think u all are clinging way to much to Buu saga PL, Buu saga lvl of power is weak in the whole multiverse. each new arc brings in stronger characters, and now they are making the characters that werent very strong relevant.

I don't think anybody's "clinging" to it per se but that's just what the show is presently conveying. Goku's base strength is indeed significantly above what it was in the Buu saga to the point that he's on par with Buu now without needing Super Saiyan 3 or even Super Saiyan at all, but that hardly makes the Buu arc power levels irrelevant when factoring in Buu's performance at the exhibition match and a multitude of other things within the past few episodes. The ceiling of relevant strength reaches up to God level and beyond, but for the protagonists this only appears to be whenever Blue is triggered.

In regards to Super Saiyan transformations, I don't think the anime is currently at all different from the manga or even RoF where it was rather specifically implied that only Super Saiyan Blue surpassed Super Saiyan God. The hierarchy is simply 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> God -> Blue, and I'm almost certain that the writers are actively trying to keep this consistent throughout all mediums.

[SaiyanGod117]

If Goku's base is Buuhann level than why did he have trouble with Krillin?

Pretty sure thats a feat for krillin, not the other way around.

So how did he reach Buuhan level?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

If Goku's base is Buuhann level than why did he have trouble with Krillin?

Pretty sure thats a feat for krillin, not the other way around.

So how did he reach Buuhan level?

He didn't. He made smart use of distraction and predicted specific actions from Goku to throw him off-guard and attempt a ring out. It was only at the very end of their spar that it even became something close to a power struggle, and even then it wasn't really about power anyways.