Will people give up if humans/androids can withstand attacks from Gods/Super Saiyan Blue?

[pacz360]

Do you honesty believe Toei put that much thought into this episode? Really? Can you sit here and say that those people over there writing the show had this in mind? Absolutely not. I guarantee you they're complacent with their jobs and straight up going through the motions. It's like how everyone reacted to Kylo Ren losing to two inexperienced Jedi apprentices. They went on about "how he got shot earlier and was using the force to tend to his wounds." Or something along those lines. Justifying why it was okay for a prodigy like him to get worked on by noobs.

You may have valid points, but can you honestly say that that's what the writers wanted you to see? That Goku was really really trying hard to hold back? No. What they were attempting to do was to try and give us a gauge to where Krillin is at compared to Goku. Hoping that nobody will notice this super big power boost they're giving him/Roshi/Tien. They are being Lazy. And even though they are being lazy, you have people like you guys sitting around formulating reasons why this and that happened. There are better ways to make Krillin stronger without having to give him some magic fairy dust.

A simple assembly of most of the fighters under the direction of whis would've done wonders. Seeing as how whis can manipulate a little bit of time, there's no reason for him to not be able to mimic rooms similar to the hyperbolic time chamber. Training everyone in an area where time runs slower. Not even a full year. I would've settled for 6 months of strict training with Whis. That would've been fine with me! But Krillin buying weight sets and stuff to get stronger is absolutely LAZY. And you people are defending it.

Krillin wasn't stronger than either goku nor gohan here in this Episode gohan was holding back in there fight and toss krillin ass to the cliff as if he owed him money.
Krillin was trying to ring out goku in there fight which is the point of this tournament.
Goku was straight up holding back in there fight it's fucking obvious here hell krillin had to shit himself to even make it budge and 18 had to save his ass.
I'm not going to pretend toei wasn't sloppy in this execution but trying to act like krillin was pressuring him is bullshit and you know it.
Not to mention where everybody in this forum crying seemed to forget about is that GOKU WAS HOLDING BACK!
seriously I advise you to drop this shit if its going to make you overreact about it.

I'm overreacting? You're the one who's consistently using profanity and being a drama queen. I am merely complaining about the lack of consistency and logic behind these boosts of power.

Don't even try and turn this on me you were damn well crying about how krillin can do anything to ssjb goku
Despite evidence showing you otherwise.
Going WTF KRILLIN GOD LEVEL despite goku going blue to see what could krillin do against someone in goku level
Despite the massive difference in power.

[Zamasu55]

This was great foreshadowing.

[TBMx]

Holding back by going SsjB ?

He only did that because he wants to see what Krillin would do against someone who is massively stronger than him.He quite literally says after he turns into a God "Krillin what will you do now?"Krillin is quite literally shaking in fear due to God ki giving off an immense amount of pressure.He wants to see how Krillin would do under these circumstances and this is also great training for Goku because their is a no killing rule so it helps him practice against people far below himself.

Notihng was wrong with the episode scaling wise

Saiyan Beyond God Goku already is massively stronger than him. Screw that base Goku long before he ever heard of super saiyan god was massively stronger than Krillin could ever become in his lifetime with a bunch of goddamn catalogue weight sets. Goku having to scream out more power while in Blue form is shark jumping nonsense, like having to try to swat an ant. If Krillin is all about tactics he doesn't need to be this strong anyway. They could just have the really strong guys, Goku, Vegeta, Jiran, Toppo, Hit etc doing their own thing relatively unconcerned with the lower tier of battles going on. But no, that's just not dumb enough. Way to devalue Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

[Black_Liger]

Honestly, I think completely forgetting about power levels and letting the humans be atleast on par with SSJ3 would do the franchise a lot of good... so many posibilities of using so many characters.

That makes 0 sense, if SSJ3 is that weak why would Goku ever need to to SSJ again?

Power is not everything. That's what the current arc is going for. But yeah, let's bridge the gap, let's make 'em all god level! even better XD

Honestly, I think completely forgetting about power levels and letting the humans be atleast on par with SSJ3 would do the franchise a lot of good... so many posibilities of using so many characters.
[/b]


It would be the best decision the franchise has ever made and I agree with you.

I would be an arm to be able to see Roshi fighting regularly again!

[julianix]

I knew super was suspect when I saw episode 5 and it looked like something I drew with my sons crayons. I've been here mostly for comic relief to be honest. Every now and then super gives you a solid episode and you get hope for the future but as of now I'm only here to see mystic gohan and my boy Majin Buu in action.

Basically only action based things.. I have no hope for the characters and the story. I mean look at vegeta. The guy is basically a walking punch line. He has no development besides being grumpy all the time.

[JulianStyles]

I've always maintained the "human" characters were far stronger than the idiots that kept them under one million. In the Android saga it made no sense for them to show up in the hundred of thousands. Tenshinhan,Krillin and Yamcha were all above 3 million at that time.

[GreatWyrmGold]

If you see these characters somehow withstanding and hurting characters on the level of Super Saiyan Blue or the other Gods, will people officially give up? At that point literally all form of logic or progression of power levels will be completely thrown out the window, and there will be no justification of how they can do something like that.

Um...you do remember that we're talking about the franchise where training for a year sometimes increases your power by an order of magnitude and sometimes barely increases it at all, Saiyans being beaten up and then healing can increase their power by a factor between about 1.5 and about 30, and the most memorable means of getting stronger is to change your hair color? And don't get me started on kaiokens, kamehamehas, and kienzans.
I've never understood why Dragon Ball fans say that Frieza being four and a half times stronger than his strongest minion, and having transformations that increase his power more than 200 times over, makes perfect sense, only to turn around and say that some new development completely breaks the power scale. That's the strongest cognitive dissonance I've seen outside of conspiracy theorists and young-earth creationists.

[jplaya2023]

the way goku handled 17 in non canon multiverse is a lot more realistic then what happened in super.

[Fionordequester]

I'm going to repost this, since there's still a lot of intense debate about this topic. I'm not saying I'm right in the analysis I drew up, but, I figure it's still a possibility to keep in mind.

HOW TO JUSTIFY #17 POTENTIALLY RIVALING GOKU: by Fionordequester

#17's strength actually makes sense, with some creative thinking. Think about it; most powerful humans seems to have a Power Level of about...10? I think? I think that's what Hercule had? And we can assume that #17 and #18 were fairly powerful as far as regular humans went before getting roboticized. Maybe they had a Power Level of 8 or so? They used to be gang leaders, so they probably did a fair bit of fighting.

So anyway, they get their cybernetics...and now they're suddenly trouncing Super Saiyans! FRICKEN SUPER SAIYANS! We don't know exactly how strong Vegeta was as a Super Saiyan, but let's just say his Power Level was 200,000,000. Just for the sake of argument. And then #18 had a Power Level of 220,000,000 and #17 had 250,000,000.

So take 240,000,000 and divide it by 8. THAT'S A FRICKEN 30,000,000x MULTIPLIER! That's how potent Gero's cybernetics would've had to be! So imagine taking that same multiplier and applying it to, say, Krillin instead! Imagine how ludicrously strong a post-Namek Krillin would be with THAT kind of multiplier!

So my point is this; #17 can still train the human parts of his body. And then his cybernetics would be multiplying whatever gains his human parts were making. So what if that 30,000,000x multiplier is applied to every extra point of Power Level that #17 gets? Ergo...

-------------------------------------

-If I get 5 Power Level points for eating Broccoli for 10 years, then #17 would get 150,000,000

-If I were to do as many push-ups as I could do for a year, and that gave me 2 Power Level points, then #17 would get 60,000,000.

-If I were to take up jogging, and that gave me 7 Power Level points after 7 years, then #17 would get 210,000,000.

-------------------------------------

So with all that in mind, is it really a surprise that #17 would be able to gain Saitama levels of strength progression? Some might question why Dr. Gero bothered with Cell if #17's potential was that absurd, but, I'd say there's a simple answer to that. #17 and #18 were rebellious; VERY rebellious, to the point that they killed Gero.
So naturally? Dr. Gero's going to want to have a safety measure, just in case #17 and #18 got too out of control.

[Ki Breaker]

I'm going to repost this, since there's still a lot of intense debate about this topic. I'm not saying I'm right in the analysis I drew up, but, I figure it's still a possibility to keep in mind.

I like it.. a lot..
But there's a small problem, we don't know if the strength the reactor gave is multiplicative or additive..
If it's additive the whole logic fails

[precita]

Even if 17 got stronger he still shouldn't be above SSJ2 level at most, maybe SSJ3 if we're pushing it and even then that feels unrealistic. But Super Saiyan Blue, which is above Super Saiyan God, and this is after Goku got even stronger in his Blue form after training for Zamasu? Literally unbelieveable.

[HybridSaiyan]

Was anyone else annoyed at the fact Goku just charged in on 17 without giving him a choice? Like..he literally powered up to SSJ and attacked 17 without him agreeing to anything. Seems a little OOC for Goku.

[lord godly da don]

#17 training is more efficient than goku and vegeta training simply because he doesn't have to take as many breaks
For example goku and vegeta have to take breaks to eat ( which they need to eat a lot) sleep ( which is a good 8 hours) and breaks to regain energy and stamina so depending on how hard they train goku and vegeta are only getting 4-6 hours of real training a day

While on the other hand #17 can train for 23 hours 45 mins (this is low balling) a day only taking breaks to hydrate

So stop with the bs comparison between him and goku and vegeta training it's not equal and why do people keep saying he should only be ssj2 ssj3 level wtf does that mean are you implying that all ssj2s and ssj3 are the same level plus when was it ever started that he had limited potential

Most of you that are complaining don't even make good arguments to back it up
If you don't like it just say you don't like it but don't say it doesn't make sense because it does and I wasn't even thinking hard and figured this shit out

[AloversGaming]

I knew super was suspect when I saw episode 5 and it looked like something I drew with my sons crayons. I've been here mostly for comic relief to be honest. Every now and then super gives you a solid episode and you get hope for the future but as of now I'm only here to see mystic gohan and my boy Majin Buu in action.

Basically only action based things.. I have no hope for the characters and the story. I mean look at vegeta. The guy is basically a walking punch line. He has no development besides being grumpy all the time.

While there's a bit too much submissive Vegeta in Super, I sure hope you don't consider Vegeta's character to have been all that well written in Z. He got dumbed down and whined in endless episodes post-Namek. His character took a massive nosedive in the Android and Buu arcs. Smart, cunning, Vegeta was dead. Super's Vegeta is far better written in many aspects.

[Boo Machine]

Was anyone else annoyed at the fact Goku just charged in on 17 without giving him a choice? Like..he literally powered up to SSJ and attacked 17 without him agreeing to anything. Seems a little OOC for Goku.

It's not like Goku forced him into it. 17 was staring straight at him when he transformed, and rather than have any objection or surprise,17 just stood there. There was even enough time for them to chat and goku made his intentions very clear. 17 was even ready enough to dodge the first punch. If 17 had any objections, he had enough time to voice them 3 times over.

[HybridSaiyan]

Was anyone else annoyed at the fact Goku just charged in on 17 without giving him a choice? Like..he literally powered up to SSJ and attacked 17 without him agreeing to anything. Seems a little OOC for Goku.

It's not like Goku forced him into it. 17 was staring straight at him when he transformed, and rather than have any objection or surprise,17 just stood there. There was even enough time for them to chat and goku made his intentions very clear. 17 was even ready enough to dodge the first punch. If 17 had any objections, he had enough time to voice them 3 times over.

17 was calm and collected, mainly due to his insane power leap. He didn't fear Goku at all so Isn't that why he was just gazing at him bemused like? It just came off as disrespectful to me.

Anyways, I had a right chuckle when 17 was lecturing Goku about not killing innocent people. Ahaha.

[Boo Machine]

Was anyone else annoyed at the fact Goku just charged in on 17 without giving him a choice? Like..he literally powered up to SSJ and attacked 17 without him agreeing to anything. Seems a little OOC for Goku.

It's not like Goku forced him into it. 17 was staring straight at him when he transformed, and rather than have any objection or surprise,17 just stood there. There was even enough time for them to chat and goku made his intentions very clear. 17 was even ready enough to dodge the first punch. If 17 had any objections, he had enough time to voice them 3 times over.

17 was calm and collected, mainly due to his insane power leap. He didn't fear Goku at all so Isn't that why he was just gazing at him bemused like? It just came off as disrespectful to me.

Anyways, I had a right chuckle when 17 was lecturing Goku about not killing innocent people. Ahaha.

I think it might have been disrespectful if 17 out right declined and goku jumped him anyway. Otherwise I think 17 was ready for it. Why else would Goku be there?

I know what you mean. It sounded like something I'd imagine Goku would have had to tell 17. Funny that 17 assumes Goku goal was to kill on sight.

[julianix]

It was actually worse. He got in a few good hits on Gohan and held his own against a SsjB Goku for a few seconds.

Gtfo krillin didn't do shit to gohan at all he had to use solar flare x100 to get one good shot at him.
Also goku was straight up holding back so don't try that shit.

What say I? Same as in the other thread oh and no it isn't as ridiculous as you assumed. You just don't like Kuririn and clearly aren't thinking more deeply...

thank you it's obvious but this fanbase likes to forget and bitch about it like it never happened before

Do you honesty believe Toei put that much thought into this episode? Really? Can you sit here and say that those people over there writing the show had this in mind? Absolutely not. I guarantee you they're complacent with their jobs and straight up going through the motions. It's like how everyone reacted to Kylo Ren losing to two inexperienced Jedi apprentices. They went on about "how he got shot earlier and was using the force to tend to his wounds." Or something along those lines. Justifying why it was okay for a prodigy like him to get worked on by noobs.

You may have valid points, but can you honestly say that that's what the writers wanted you to see? That Goku was really really trying hard to hold back? No. What they were attempting to do was to try and give us a gauge to where Krillin is at compared to Goku. Hoping that nobody will notice this super big power boost they're giving him/Roshi/Tien. They are being Lazy. And even though they are being lazy, you have people like you guys sitting around formulating reasons why this and that happened. There are better ways to make Krillin stronger without having to give him some magic fairy dust.

A simple assembly of most of the fighters under the direction of whis would've done wonders. Seeing as how whis can manipulate a little bit of time, there's no reason for him to not be able to mimic rooms similar to the hyperbolic time chamber. Training everyone in an area where time runs slower. Not even a full year. I would've settled for 6 months of strict training with Whis. That would've been fine with me! But Krillin buying weight sets and stuff to get stronger is absolutely LAZY. And you people are defending it.

This guy gets it. Toei didn't really put much thought or care into its power scale, or consistency for that matter. It's fine I get It, but it is annoying how we have people justifying this crap left and right. Goku was holding back just doesn't cut it anymore.

By the way the kylo Ren example is on point. Did they honestly think that we wouldn't notice something like that? Kylo freaking Ren getting worked over by some 1st time ever non trained Rey and some dude with zero force abilities. I mean that's just a slap to the face, but ok..justify it with some nonsense to compensate lazy and lack of thought writing.