Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[The gr]

Piccolo is indeed ultimate tier or around there, and i was right krillin is still below #18

Nah, he only caught Gohan because he let his guard down. I mean, his arm popped off just by touching Gohan.

True but he is around that tier, because I remember a episode sypnosis said this ultimate gohan is stronger than buu Saga ultimate, or he could be around Super buu or ssj3 Gotenks in terms of power

[TheMathemagician]

Well, I'll just update the list of characters.

It has been about 1 year since the end of the Black Saga (considering that in this Saga Bulma was not pregnant and only gave birth to a few episodes ago).
Of course, those who still continue training as Goku and Vegeta tend to always get stronger, since they give food to Whis in exchange for training.

Not considering angels and Zeno.

1-Vegetto
2-Merged Zamasu
3-Beerus / Champa
4-Goku (Kaioken)
5-Vegeta SSB / Hit
6-Toppo / Goku Black
7-Trunks (SSJ Rage)
8-Zamasu
9-Kyabe
10-Frost

As far as power goes, why is Toppo below Vegeta and Hit? If anything he's probably on their level or possibly higher.

[incarnati0n]

Piccolo is indeed ultimate tier or around there, and i was right krillin is still below #18

Nah, he only caught Gohan because he let his guard down. I mean, his arm popped off just by touching Gohan.

True but he is around that tier, because I remember a episode sypnosis said this ultimate gohan is stronger than buu Saga ultimate, or he could be around Super buu or ssj3 Gotenks in terms of power

Oh yeah, I think that is reasonable.

[LowRyder2005]

I guess this episode has finally put to rest a lot of ascended fanon theories about Tagoma and "Super Saiyan Ultimate" Gohan. Thankful I'll probably don't have to discuss this stuff anymore.

Anyway, we have to usual conundrum: Gohan started to fight seriously for about ten seconds ("I won't hold back", that is after going Ultimate). The episode theme, if you either understood Japanese or followed Herm's tweets, was all about how Gohan was mostly incapable of getting into the mindset of a proper fighter and how he was both careless/sloppy and limiting his power output at the same time.
I'd be inclined to think that most of Gohan's poor performance was to reflect this more than some power gap between him and Piccolo. I still don't think Piccolo should be that far off from Super Saiyan Gohan, at least.

[The gr]

Piccolo is indeed ultimate tier or around there, and i was right krillin is still below #18

Piccolo isn't Ultimate tier. Ultimate Gohan wasted the clones instantly and easily cut off Piccolo's arm by accident. He could only damage Ultimate Gohan by catching him caught off guard. Piccolo has certainly made some great gains, though. He's finally broken through the glass ceiling of the Cell arc and is now I'd say somewhere between Dabra and Super Perfect Cell, at the least. But he's nowhere near Ultimate Gohan tier or SSJ3 tier.

your lowbaling piccolo, look at this, lavenda is relative to a undrugged Basil, who is around majin vegeta ssj2,yet Gohan ss1 own him,in This episode Piccolo owns gohan in ss1 and ss2, but is defeated by a version of Gohan that is stronger than in the buu Saga,so is not hard to believe that piccolo is around ss3 or ultimate tier

[LowRyder2005]

Piccolo is indeed ultimate tier or around there, and i was right krillin is still below #18

Piccolo isn't Ultimate tier. Ultimate Gohan wasted the clones instantly and easily cut off Piccolo's arm by accident. He could only damage Ultimate Gohan by catching him caught off guard. Piccolo has certainly made some great gains, though. He's finally broken through the glass ceiling of the Cell arc and is now I'd say somewhere between Dabra and Super Perfect Cell, at the least. But he's nowhere near Ultimate Gohan tier or SSJ3 tier.

your lowbaling piccolo, look at this, lavenda is relative to a undrugged Basil, who is around majin vegeta ssj2,yet Gohan ss1 own him,in This episode Piccolo owns gohan in ss1 and ss2, but is defeated by a version of Gohan that is stronger than in the buu Saga,so is not hard to believe that piccolo is around ss3 or ultimate tier

There are actually many more assumptions in this, compared to his outlook.
Besides, it looks kind of more likely for Basil and Lavenda to be base Saiyans tier (about as strong as Kibith, for reference) given that we now know that Gohan was either in base or Super Saiyan form all along.

Goku also says that Gohan should be "stronger" the Gohan he had seen at the tournament. I don't know yet if this is supposed to mean that Gohan was weaker than usual or that he had to become stronger, though.

[The gr]

Piccolo isn't Ultimate tier. Ultimate Gohan wasted the clones instantly and easily cut off Piccolo's arm by accident. He could only damage Ultimate Gohan by catching him caught off guard. Piccolo has certainly made some great gains, though. He's finally broken through the glass ceiling of the Cell arc and is now I'd say somewhere between Dabra and Super Perfect Cell, at the least. But he's nowhere near Ultimate Gohan tier or SSJ3 tier.

your lowbaling piccolo, look at this, lavenda is relative to a undrugged Basil, who is around majin vegeta ssj2,yet Gohan ss1 own him,in This episode Piccolo owns gohan in ss1 and ss2, but is defeated by a version of Gohan that is stronger than in the buu Saga,so is not hard to believe that piccolo is around ss3 or ultimate tier

There are actually many more assumptions in this, compared to his outlook.
Besides, it looks much more likely for Basil and Lavenda to be base Saiyans tier (about as strong as Kibith, for reference) given that we now know that Gohan was either in base or Super Saiyan form all along.

Basil is not around kibito tier,I say he is around the ss2 tier, because he is shown some impressive feats, like survival an attack from an angry buu and his drugged form tanked a full powered attack from buu,is not hard to believe that lavenda and Basil are relative to each other in terms of power

[Lord Beerus]

your lowbaling piccolo, look at this, lavenda is relative to a undrugged Basil, who is around majin vegeta ssj2,yet Gohan ss1 own him,in This episode Piccolo owns gohan in ss1 and ss2, but is defeated by a version of Gohan that is stronger than in the buu Saga,so is not hard to believe that piccolo is around ss3 or ultimate tier

There are actually many more assumptions in this, compared to his outlook.
Besides, it looks much more likely for Basil and Lavenda to be base Saiyans tier (about as strong as Kibith, for reference) given that we now know that Gohan was either in base or Super Saiyan form all along.

Basil is not around kibito tier,I say he is around the ss2 tier, because he is shown some impressive feats, like survival an attack from an angry buu and his drugged form tanked a full powered attack from buu,is not hard to believe that lavenda and Basil are relative to each other in terms of power

Basil can't be SSJ2 tier or anywhere near it. Majin Boo was no selling everything Basil was throwing at him, and Majin Boo in return, was kicking Basil's ass. Even when Basil took the drug and powered up, a single Kamehameha from a serious Majin Boo left Basil so damaged and fatigued he couldn't fight anymore. I'd wager that Basil is Base Saiyan tier at best.

[LowRyder2005]

your lowbaling piccolo, look at this, lavenda is relative to a undrugged Basil, who is around majin vegeta ssj2,yet Gohan ss1 own him,in This episode Piccolo owns gohan in ss1 and ss2, but is defeated by a version of Gohan that is stronger than in the buu Saga,so is not hard to believe that piccolo is around ss3 or ultimate tier

There are actually many more assumptions in this, compared to his outlook.
Besides, it looks much more likely for Basil and Lavenda to be base Saiyans tier (about as strong as Kibith, for reference) given that we now know that Gohan was either in base or Super Saiyan form all along.

hell no, Basil is not around kibito tier,I say he is around the ss2 tier, because he is shown some impressive feats, like survival an attack from an angry buu and his drugged form tanked a full powered attack from buu,is not hard to believe that lavenda and Basil are relative to each other in terms of power

I mentioned Kibith because he is said to be about even with a base Gohan from the Buu saga (which could still be stronger than the current Gohan, as far as we know; we'd definitely need something more concrete to prove he's stronger than ever).
I don't really get your train of thought, though. Basil and Lavenda are near in power, according to you. Gohan had basically the edge in base on Lavenda: how can the non-drugged Basil be Super Saiyan 2 tier?

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

So Ultimate is officially a transformation which increases Gohan's strength and apparently controls the weather too
So, Ultimate Gohan >>> SS2 Gohan = Piccolo > SS Gohan > Base Gohan and Gohan's meant to somewhat relative to Buu in his base, jeez Piccolo got a massive boost..

[The gr]

There are actually many more assumptions in this, compared to his outlook.
Besides, it looks much more likely for Basil and Lavenda to be base Saiyans tier (about as strong as Kibith, for reference) given that we now know that Gohan was either in base or Super Saiyan form all along.

hell no, Basil is not around kibito tier,I say he is around the ss2 tier, because he is shown some impressive feats, like survival an attack from an angry buu and his drugged form tanked a full powered attack from buu,is not hard to believe that lavenda and Basil are relative to each other in terms of power

I mentioned Kibith because he is said to be about even with a base Gohan from the Buu saga (which could still be stronger than the current Gohan, as far as we know; we'd definitely need something more concrete to prove he's stronger than ever).
I don't really get your train-of-thought, though. Basil and Lavenda are near in power, according to you. Gohan had basically the edge in base on Lavenda: how can the non-drugged Basil be Super Saiyan 2 tier?

is the Same case as hit wether as base goku is not​ close to hit,gohan was owning him because he could react better than his opponent and his sense has been heightned and that's the reason why base goku nails some damage to hit, because he reacted faster than him

[RafaelLeon]

So Ultimate is officially a transformation which increases Gohan's strength and apparently controls the weather too

Transformations have controlled the weather since Goku's debut as a Super Saiyan.

[dbzfan7]

I like how with Piccolo, despite normally a drastic gain, I find it far easier and able to swallow than with 17. A reasonable growth to have some impact at least.

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

So Ultimate is officially a transformation which increases Gohan's strength and apparently controls the weather too

Transformations have controlled the weather since Goku's debut as a Super Saiyan.

But can Goku stop the rain and wind whilst transforming?

[Freeza9000]

So Ultimate is officially a transformation which increases Gohan's strength and apparently controls the weather too

Transformations have controlled the weather since Goku's debut as a Super Saiyan.

But can Goku stop the rain and wind whilst transforming?

But hey, nobody complained about how Cell's ascension to his perfect form caused massive shitstorms on Earth.

[Lord Beerus]

So, Ultimate Gohan >>> SS2 Gohan = Piccolo > SS Gohan > Base Gohan and Gohan's meant to somewhat relative to Buu in his base, jeez Piccolo got a massive boost..

When was Gohan made comparable or relative to Majin Boo in his base form?

[Freeza9000]

Piccolo's power boosts were established to be pretty OP, so I don't really mind it in this episode.

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

Transformations have controlled the weather since Goku's debut as a Super Saiyan.

But can Goku stop the rain and wind whilst transforming?

Buy hey, nobody complained about how Cell's ascension to his perfect form caused massive shitstorms on Earth.

That's true, you guys win

[LowRyder2005]

hell no, Basil is not around kibito tier,I say he is around the ss2 tier, because he is shown some impressive feats, like survival an attack from an angry buu and his drugged form tanked a full powered attack from buu,is not hard to believe that lavenda and Basil are relative to each other in terms of power

I mentioned Kibith because he is said to be about even with a base Gohan from the Buu saga (which could still be stronger than the current Gohan, as far as we know; we'd definitely need something more concrete to prove he's stronger than ever).
I don't really get your train-of-thought, though. Basil and Lavenda are near in power, according to you. Gohan had basically the edge in base on Lavenda: how can the non-drugged Basil be Super Saiyan 2 tier?

is the Same case as hit wether as base goku is not​ close to hit,gohan was owning him because he could react better than his opponent and his sense has been heightned and that's the reason why base goku nails some damage to hit, because he reacted faster than him

If anything, I'm rather convinced SS1/SS2 Gohan vs. Piccolo was meant to reflect that there were some outside factors like - y'know - "battle instincts" and psychological blocks coming into play, compromising Gohan's performance. It's basically what the fight is all about. Gohan vs. Lavenda looked like your pretty regular fisticuffs in which Lavenda was already losing.
At this point, I guess it'd be simpler for you to argue that Lavenda was not going all out.

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

So, Ultimate Gohan >>> SS2 Gohan = Piccolo > SS Gohan > Base Gohan and Gohan's meant to somewhat relative to Buu in his base, jeez Piccolo got a massive boost..

When was Gohan made comparable or relative to Majin Boo in his base form?

My apologies, I meant Buu Saga levels, I'm tired