"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:56 am

TheQuazz wrote:Yeah, I don't think I explained myself well. Of course "interactions" are essential to a story, how are we supposed to know anything about the characters if they don't talk? What I'm taking issue with are interactions for interaction's sake, people are just looking forward to Freeza interacting with everybody whether or not it's a part of a good narrative or not. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how adding Freeza into the mix is going to make the story any better.
Interactions isn't just talking. Interactions are an action or an influence caused by another characters. And people are interested in seeing what actions people take by having to work with Freeza or what actions Freeza him self will take being forced to confront all these new characters and situation. One that he has never been put in before.

Will it make it a better story? There isn't really any way to tell. It could bomb super hard, but people are interested in the possibility that it could be fun. People thought the conversation between Goku and Freeza today was great because of their history and how the characters handled themselves around each other. Freeza was snarky and scheming and Goku was in control and kinda trollish. Great interaction.
Last edited by Boo Machine on Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:57 am

TheQuazz wrote:Yeah, I don't think I explained myself well. Of course "interactions" are essential to a story, how are we supposed to know anything about the characters if they don't talk? What I'm taking issue with are interactions for interaction's sake, people are just looking forward to Freeza interacting with everybody whether or not it's a part of a good narrative or not. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how adding Freeza into the mix is going to make the story any better.
It can't make it worse... probably. Anyway, I think the misunderstanding on your part is thinking that everyone wants to watch Freeza kick back in a lawn chair and talk about the weather for his whole 24 hours. Meanwhile, Zeno erases the universe because everyone was too interested in Freeza's silky, interactive voice to attend the tournament.

People are more interested to see Freeza's schemes with Frost, how his personality and teamwork affects the performance of the team. Will he come back to life and restore his empire once the tournament is over? If so, how immediately will he be killed and how long will the sword be this time?
Last edited by Jinzoningen MULE on Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:59 am

TheQuazz wrote:they didn't even acknowledge that Gotenks exists. "Oh, but Gotenks is waaay to risky and uncooperative!" And Freeza isn't?! Besides, it could be a good opportunity to give Gotenks some kind of development, maybe he had to be trained or something? I don't know, anything's better than FREEZA again. The show could have at least made some kind of excuse for Gotenks themselves, but no, we're stuck with whatever crap people come up with to defend a decision obviously driven more by corporate greed than actually creativity or a desire to tell a good story.
As repetitive as the card of bringing back Freeza from the grave is and how annoyed I am at Boo being shafted, it's a significantly more interesting choice than Gotenks. Mainly because of the potentially interesting interactions he will have with other universes and how insanely condescending he will be towards others participating in the tournament. It does also add fuel to the whole idea of Universe 7 being the main offender as other universes perceive it to be. Seeing as how the team will have to deal with working together with a barely reformed asshole is also interesting.
Last edited by Freeza9000 on Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by precita » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:00 am

Losing Boo still stings, and I really wish Roshi just decided to go as a spectator instead of a fighter.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:03 am

precita wrote:Losing Boo still stings.
I could understand initially, but why is it a problem now? Aside from a few interesting cuts of animation, there's no way anything interesting would have come out of him being there. As much as I love Boo, he's best used for comedy and minor threats.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by precita » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:07 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
precita wrote:Losing Boo still stings.
I could understand initially, but why is it a problem now? Aside from a few interesting cuts of animation, there's no way anything interesting would have come out of him being there. As much as I love Boo, he's best used for comedy and minor threats.
Boo as a fighter is the only thing he should be used for now, and we're not getting it. All his unique attacks and abilities that no other character has, it's just a real shame.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheQuazz » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:09 am

Freeza9000 wrote:
TheQuazz wrote:they didn't even acknowledge that Gotenks exists. "Oh, but Gotenks is waaay to risky and uncooperative!" And Freeza isn't?! Besides, it could be a good opportunity to give Gotenks some kind of development, maybe he had to be trained or something? I don't know, anything's better than FREEZA again. The show could have at least made some kind of excuse for Gotenks themselves, but no, we're stuck with whatever crap people come up with to defend a decision obviously driven more by corporate greed than actually creativity or a desire to tell a good story.
As repetitive as the card of bringing back Freeza from the grave is and how annoyed I am at Boo being shafted, it's a significantly more interesting choice than Gotenks. Mainly because of the potentially interesting interactions he will have with other universes and how insanely condescending he will be towards others participating in the tournament. It does also add fuel to the whole idea of Universe 7 being the main offender as other universes perceive it to be. Seeing as how the team will have to deal with working together with a barely reformed asshole is also interesting.
Although Freeza may be more interesting than Gotenks (which I don't agree with, Gotenks dicking around could be as damaging to U7's reputation as Freeza. Not to mention they could have tried to develop Gotenks a bit, we don't see him at EoZ so it's not like it'd contradict anything), it doesn't excuse the fact that Super was too damn lazy to even acknowledge he exists at all. Not to mention that shafting Boo was a conscious decision made by the "writers", and Boo as a character is pretty much entirely pointless unless he gets some kind of development in this arc. I know the original series was written years ago, but from a narrative standpoint what's the point of saving Boo if all he's going to do is dick around and fall asleep? Just so Mr Satan can get a happy ending?
Last edited by TheQuazz on Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Cipher » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:11 am

TheQuazz wrote:Yeah, I don't think I explained myself well. Of course "interactions" are essential to a story, how are we supposed to know anything about the characters if they don't talk? What I'm taking issue with are interactions for interaction's sake, people are just looking forward to Freeza interacting with everybody whether or not it's a part of a good narrative. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how adding Freeza into the mix is going to make the story any better.
The conflict (personal and interpersonal) promised by Freeza's participation means I get to care about things the characters are doing, rather than things things the characters are simply experiencing.

With this development, the story is about two personalities (Goku and Freeza's, as of this moment) driving the story along, rather than an event the characters simply have to respond to.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:12 am

TheQuazz wrote:Although Freeza may be more interesting than Gotenks (which I don't agree with, Gotenks dicking around could be as damaging to U7's reputation as Freeza. Not to mention they could have tried to develop Gotenks a bit, we don't see him at EoZ so it's not like it'd contradict anything), it doesn't excuse the fact that Super was too damn lazy to even acknowledge he exists at all.
As for Gotenks, he couldn't last the duration of the tournament, and once he split into two people, he could be disqualified, or worst case, the universe could be disqualified. Not to mention that Gotenks has fundamental character flaws, and has never won a single battle because of them, despite his enormous power. I stand by my opinion that he could never be a viable option.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:12 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
precita wrote:Losing Boo still stings.
I could understand initially, but why is it a problem now? Aside from a few interesting cuts of animation, there's no way anything interesting would have come out of him being there. As much as I love Boo, he's best used for comedy and minor threats.
I think that it would've been less irksome if Tenshinhan or Roshi were the ones replaced.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by precita » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:13 am

Also imagine if Freeza saw Buu? He would be like, "THAT'S the creature my father told me to stay away from and fear?"

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheQuazz » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:38 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote: As for Gotenks, he couldn't last the duration of the tournament, and once he split into two people, he could be disqualified, or worst case, the universe could be disqualified. Not to mention that Gotenks has fundamental character flaws, and has never won a single battle because of them, despite his enormous power. I stand by my opinion that he could never be a viable option.
Okay, this is embarrassing. I can't believe fusion's time limit slipped my mind like that. Yeah I concede, Freeza makes more sense than Gotenks.
Cipher wrote:The conflict (personal and interpersonal) promised by Freeza's participation means I get to care about things the characters are doing, rather than things things the characters are simply experiencing.
With this development, the story is about two personalities (Goku and Freeza's, as of this moment) driving the story along, rather than an event the characters simply have to respond to.
I never really thought about it like that before and I can see what you're getting at, but I don't think Super's going to handle Freeza in a way that adds any conflict between the members of the team. From the looks of it, the characters are still reacting to the event, just with the added wackiness of former enemies teaming up.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by vashter » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:10 am

I don't know if this has been said... when Cail was carrying Kale, Kale eyes was close and smiling same way Gohan was carried by goku during training, yall realize that? that crazy... just leaving us a hints

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kishido » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:36 am

Caulifla <3

Still 2 questions

1. If there is no sudden change in the rules earth DBs are still able to revive the same person only ONCE.
Frieza already has been so even if he gets them he will gain shit from them.
So has Goku fooled him or have he himself forgotten this one as well?

2.Is this the reason Cell and Co can't be revived?
Frieza never repent and so his sould wasn't reformed and purified... That's why he is still there
So has Cell repent and so others as well?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TysonWine » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:41 am

TheQuazz wrote:I cannot, for the life of me, understand this "interaction" crap. Why do people want characters interacting with each other over a good story? Yeah, Freeza talked to Goku like how Freeza would talk to Goku, so what? Oh boy, Freeza's going to be really wacky having to work with all these former enemies! This is stuff that excites little children, demand a little bit more from your entertainment. I still can't get over the fact that they dropped a potentially interesting character from the cast only to shove in Mr Merchandise-Seller, and people act like it's somehow a good idea that benefits the show. The way this has been implemented is so cynical, they just throw Freeza right in like he's the only possible way to save the universe, they didn't even acknowledge that Gotenks exists. "Oh, but Gotenks is waaay to risky and uncooperative!" And Freeza isn't?! Besides, it could be a good opportunity to give Gotenks some kind of development, maybe he had to be trained or something? I don't know, anything's better than FREEZA again. The show could have at least made some kind of excuse for Gotenks themselves, but no, we're stuck with whatever crap people come up with to defend a decision obviously driven more by corporate greed than actually creativity or a desire to tell a good story. Speaking of which, the story of Super (you know, the thing that's actually important in a series) has been very lacklustre recently too. I don't think anything's been better than serviceable since the Krillin episode, every event has just kind of happened on screen without any kind of character development or heart to it. The animation and music have been good I guess, but nothing makes me feel any emotion whatsoever. Whenever I tune in to Super it just feels like I'm dead for 20 minutes. Some things have been offensively stupid too, like the Kale stuff today. Wow, a shy and fragile girl getting really mad and turning into a raging brute, what a creative idea for a character! These recent episodes have really been a wake-up call that I've been wasting too much of my time caring about a show for little kids with as much intelligence and substance as a little kids' show and with fans that have the same requirements for good entertainment as little kids. Silly me for thinking that whoever's responsible for Super actually tried to make a good show after the whole "reboot" it got after the Black arc. I've given Dragon Ball way too many second chances, nothing made since the Bardock Special (and maybe Battle of Gods) has actually been good enough to warrant my time, yet I still keep coming back expecting the series to magically produce some kind of worthwhile content. Well, it hasn't. So unless one of my friends tells me that something really damn good happens in this arc, I'm done with Dragon Ball. No point in obsessing over something that has stagnated in mediocrity for over 25 years. (This is probably a contender for the worst post ever, but I sunk too much time into it to not Submit it)
We're childish for wanting to see how Frieza interacts with the cast and influences the narrative, yet you want to see...Gotenks.

"This is stuff that excites little children"
"a show for little kids with as much intelligence and substance as a little kids' show and with fans that have the same requirements for good entertainment as little kids"

This guy, the one who said the above quotes wants to see...Gotenks. Because we all know, Gotenks will bring the maturity and seriousness to the series...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:51 am

Kishido wrote:Caulifla <3

Still 2 questions

1. If there is no sudden change in the rules earth DBs are still able to revive the same person only ONCE.
Frieza already has been so even if he gets them he will gain shit from them.
So has Goku fooled him or have he himself forgotten this one as well?

2.Is this the reason Cell and Co can't be revived?
Frieza never repent and so his sould wasn't reformed and purified... That's why he is still there
So has Cell repent and so others as well?
1. Yeah, I think Goku is just letting Freeza screw himself over.

2. It's a good question, Cell is nowhere near as evil as Freeza, so I wouldn't be surprised if a few years in hell would lead to him repenting, especially since we now know that each person has their own hell. I wonder if the whole "Buu was pure evil so he was able to be reincarnated quickly" think means that if something is pure evil they don't need to repent to be reincarnated.
I'm curious what Cell's Hell is/was like, the first thing that came to mind was a hell that hammers into his head that he's not perfect.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:13 am

ArchedThunder wrote: I'm curious what Cell's Hell is/was like, the first thing that came to mind was a hell that hammers into his head that he's not perfect.
He's simply trapped in a display case in an old dusty museum, while crowds flock to see the OTHER androids who are so much more perfect than him.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:15 am

Kanassa wrote: He's simply trapped in a display case in an old dusty museum, while crowds flock to see the OTHER androids who are so much more perfect than him.
Or he's strapped to a table while people come into the room, one by one, in single file and whisper in his ear "You're not perfect"

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:20 am

I can't remember but didn't Cell die outside of Earth? If so he might not even be in hell.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:22 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I can't remember but didn't Cell die outside of Earth? If so he might not even be in hell.
No, he died on Earth.
Also I'm pretty sure that the meaning of what Yemma said was simply that each planet, or maybe region, has their own ogre dude who judges people when they die, not that Earth is the only place with Hell.

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