Mortal stronger than a GoD

[GodKaio-Ken]

All 4 of aravinthan's points are based on the faulty premise that Beerus arm wrestled with this mortal.

No they arent at all actually. They work 100% on the premise that every Hakaioshin hasnt beaten Beerus and that of the limited that have he would recognize them in the tournament and at least be worried.

Again...i think it is Jiren but the staff royally screwed the presentation. We will see.

[Simere]

All 4 of aravinthan's points are based on the faulty premise that Beerus arm wrestled with this mortal.

No they arent at all actually. They work 100% on the premise that every Hakaioshin hasnt beaten Beerus and that of the limited that have he would recognize them in the tournament and at least be worried.

None of his points have anything to do with the GoD:


1. Beerus and Whis didn`t recognize pride troopers uniform, which they will wear while fighting or doing their duty.

Why would he think Beerus would recognize the pride trooper uniform? Because he's assuming Beerus has met the mortal in question, and if it were Jiren, then he would know the uniform.

2. Even after Goku shared about Toppo`s info on Jiren, Whis and Beerus did not speak anything suspicious.

Here he's saying that Beerus would suspect that Jiren was the mortal who beat him, and because he didn't say anything that means it's not Jiren.

3. Beerus had a arm wrestling match with that mortal ,lets say X.

Here he flat out says his mistaken premise.

4. Even after seeing Jiren in epi 96, no one recognized that guy, at least not yet.

Again, here he's still assuming Beerus would recognize Jiren because he thinks he's met him before.

If you think logically, Jiren is not the guy who defeated Beerus.

He restates his mistaken premise.

[GodKaio-Ken]

All 4 of aravinthan's points are based on the faulty premise that Beerus arm wrestled with this mortal.

No they arent at all actually. They work 100% on the premise that every Hakaioshin hasnt beaten Beerus and that of the limited that have he would recognize them in the tournament and at least be worried.

None of his points have anything to do with the GoD:


1. Beerus and Whis didn`t recognize pride troopers uniform, which they will wear while fighting or doing their duty.

Why would he think Beerus would recognize the pride trooper uniform? Because he's assuming Beerus has met the mortal in question, and if it were Jiren, then he would know the uniform.

2. Even after Goku shared about Toppo`s info on Jiren, Whis and Beerus did not speak anything suspicious.

Here he's saying that Beerus would suspect that Jiren was the mortal who beat him, and because he didn't say anything that means it's not Jiren.

3. Beerus had a arm wrestling match with that mortal ,lets say X.

Here he flat out says his mistaken premise.

4. Even after seeing Jiren in epi 96, no one recognized that guy, at least not yet.

Again, here he's still assuming Beerus would recognize Jiren because he thinks he's met him before.

If you think logically, Jiren is not the guy who defeated Beerus.

He restates his mistaken premise.

*sigh* It doesnt matter whether Beerus personally recognizes him. The idea is that Beerus would know the G.O.D from U11 beat him which would imply the character was on that team.

I cant put it any more basic that...do you understand? You can remove Beerus knowing him personally and it leads to the same conclusion. That is what i meant.

[HeroR]

I highly doubt it's Jiren. KKx10 Goku is still nowhere near Beerus, and Jiren can be only say, like 1,5x stronger than Goku in that state. Doesn't mean he has to be taken as stronger than Gods of Destruction.

Also it's worth mentioning that not every instance of Goku using Kaioken in SSj Blue was 10x. Sometimes it was just a regular 2x, which I believe Goku used against Toppo, and the latter erroneously assumed that was all Goku's capable of. So current KKx10 SSj Blue Goku can in fact be able to fight on par with Jiren or probably even have an advantage.

That was during the Champa Saga and Goku has gotten much stronger since then since he fought a stronger Hit without the Kaioken.

[Simere]

*sigh* It doesnt matter whether Beerus personally recognizes him.

It matters as to the validity of aravinthan's argument; which is completely dependent on Beerus knowing him. It doesn't matter if you both have the same conclusion(you don't, actually), your arguments are completely different. And his is demonstrably false.

The idea is that Beerus would know the G.O.D from U11 beat him which would imply the character was on that team.

That's a fine idea, but why are you bringing it up? aravinthan's idea is that he knows the mortal.

You can remove Beerus knowing him personally and it leads to the same conclusion.

You can't remove Beerus knowing him from aravinthan's argument.

I say again: aravinthan's argument is completely married to the premise of Beerus knowing the mortal. Providing alternate arguments that better support the conclusion doesn't change this. It's still just as wrong.

That is what i meant.

Is it what aravinthan meant? I can't put it any more basic than that.

[bleed0range]

It's gotta be Jiren. Just based off the fact that he was able to sense the blocks movement in the last episode and moved so fast Goku didn't even see him get behind him. Beerus has barely shown he can do that to Goku. In fact, Beerus seemed nervous at the prospect of SSJ Blue Kaioken x10 and when he watched Goku and Golden Freeza fight in the last episode, he had an awe struck look on his face. I think Goku is getting close to passing him in strength. However, I get the feeling that when he does he will never own up to Goku that he has and keep putting off another rematch.

[Hellspawn28]

I don't think it is Jiren. It could be someone from U1 or U12 since those two are the top highest rank Universes.

[Gog]

I don't think it is Jiren. It could be someone from U1 or U12 since those two are the top highest rank Universes.

Considering how much this arc is trying to hype up Jiren, it is pretty likely that it is Jiren in the first place. Of course his ability just seems to be he's really good at prediction, and he may not even be the strongest member of his team without it.

[Legion]

It's gotta be Jiren. Just based off the fact that he was able to sense the blocks movement in the last episode and moved so fast Goku didn't even see him get behind him. Beerus has barely shown he can do that to Goku. In fact, Beerus seemed nervous at the prospect of SSJ Blue Kaioken x10 and when he watched Goku and Golden Freeza fight in the last episode, he had an awe struck look on his face. I think Goku is getting close to passing him in strength. However, I get the feeling that when he does he will never own up to Goku that he has and keep putting off another rematch.

What? he fought Goku only in BoG arc and he stomped him without even trying We have never seen Beerus full power against Goku.

Beerus was just surprised that Frieza and Goku were equals in their fight.

[aravinthan]

All 4 of aravinthan's points are based on the faulty premise that Beerus arm wrestled with this mortal.

Sorry but how is that faulty, Whis was the one who made that statement. If Beerus said it, there is a lot of chance that he is lying.I never saw Whis lie about anything before.

[TheOne]

I think it's pretty obvious that the mortal they are speaking of is NOT jiren.

Clearly if it was Jiren, Whis would've used U11s God of destructions name instead of making it so mysterious.

They are setting up for someone further down the road for Goku and friends. Just because Jiren is being built up right now does not make him the guy Whis was talking about. It's necessary to hype someone up for the sake of the arc. Story wise it would absolutely make no sense to have Goku face someone who is stronger than Beerus if he hasn't even come close to Beerus just yet.

If you're still doubting Beerus isn't that far ahead of Goku in the anime, just look back at the episode where Frieza and Goku took on Sidras Destruction attack. Even if Goku was Blue, he would've struggled just as much as Frieza did. And that was just a fraction of Sidras power. Beerus knocked it away with just a blow of air. That gap is still large despite what they show on tv. Goku and Vegetas gains aren't what they use to be. I'm pretty sure just like everything else in life, the gains start to slow down the higher up you get.

Back on topic, there's no legitimate evidence to show that Jiren is The Guy. I also can't see the Grand Priest allowing a mortal, who is stronger than their God of Destruction(s) to risk being erased in this tournament.

[dbgtFO]

All 4 of aravinthan's points are based on the faulty premise that Beerus arm wrestled with this mortal.

Sorry but how is that faulty, Whis was the one who made that statement. If Beerus said it, there is a lot of chance that he is lying.I never saw Whis lie about anything before.

You misunderstood Whis.
Whis said a mortal in another universe was stronger than the God of Destruction of that universe and that GoD was stronger than Beerus(Beerus says only in arm wrestling).

You then said the mortal was the one who beat Beerus in armwrestle.

[aravinthan]

All 4 of aravinthan's points are based on the faulty premise that Beerus arm wrestled with this mortal.

Sorry but how is that faulty, Whis was the one who made that statement. If Beerus said it, there is a lot of chance that he is lying.I never saw Whis lie about anything before.

You misunderstood Whis.
Whis said a mortal in another universe was stronger than the God of Destruction of that universe and that GoD was stronger than Beerus(Beerus says only in arm wrestling).

You then said the mortal was the one who beat Beerus in armwrestle.

Ohhhh

[GodKaio-Ken]

*sigh* It doesnt matter whether Beerus personally recognizes him.

It matters as to the validity of aravinthan's argument; which is completely dependent on Beerus knowing him. It doesn't matter if you both have the same conclusion(you don't, actually), your arguments are completely different. And his is demonstrably false.

The idea is that Beerus would know the G.O.D from U11 beat him which would imply the character was on that team.

That's a fine idea, but why are you bringing it up? aravinthan's idea is that he knows the mortal.

You can remove Beerus knowing him personally and it leads to the same conclusion.

You can't remove Beerus knowing him from aravinthan's argument.

I say again: aravinthan's argument is completely married to the premise of Beerus knowing the mortal. Providing alternate arguments that better support the conclusion doesn't change this. It's still just as wrong.

That is what i meant.

Is it what aravinthan meant? I can't put it any more basic than that.

I'm not concerned with what he meant anymore lol I care more that you understand what I'm personally saying. Lets disconnect from him

[TheOne]

I don't think it is Jiren. It could be someone from U1 or U12 since those two are the top highest rank Universes.

Considering how much this arc is trying to hype up Jiren, it is pretty likely that it is Jiren in the first place. Of course his ability just seems to be he's really good at prediction, and he may not even be the strongest member of his team without it.

He IS the strongest member of his team. You don't sneak up behind Goku like that without being an exceptional fighter.

Toppo also stated if he's equal with Goku, then he stands no chance against Jiren. You can't get the upper hand on Goku with just having predication.

The statement about the mortal that's stronger than their God of Destruction is clearly meant as an indicator of a future arc. Not the current.

[perucho1990]

I dont think the mortal is Jiren because it would mean he would be stronger than Genkidama Trunks, Vegetto and Merged Zamasu.

And also Goku would have to surpass all 3 of them to keep up with Jiren.

[Simere]

I'm not concerned with what he meant anymore lol I care more that you understand what I'm personally saying. Lets disconnect from him

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. It holds water.