Thoughts on Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

[8000 Saiyan]

There is no standard American accent. Even Southern accent is too broad.

Too broad for you maybe, but the "southern" term works just fine for getting the point across in this discussion. Arguing over which exact southern American state the accent comes from is just splitting hairs for no reason. Most people, especially those outside America, can easily infer what I mean when I descibe Rager's Satan as sounding "southern". Sorry if it bothers you that I'm not specific enough but it's not an issue I feel is worth further discussion.

I don't hear southern, I hear stereotypical pro wrestler. We don't even know where exactly he's from and it's a fictional world, the rules can be whatever the writer wants. I think your issue is that it breaks with convention, not becuase it's inherently wrong.

"Stereotypical pro wrestler" is an even more broad term than me saying "southern", and Funimation had no input from the original writers and creators of the product, it's just their interpritation.

I'm fine with breaking convention, alien DBZ characters with foreign accents don't bother me because I think they work rather well.

Rager's Satan isn't inherently wrong but I think the accent choice does nothing to really enhance the character and because of that, I've never really felt it justified it's own existence. Wrestlers might have influenced Toriyama on small elements of Satan's design (although to what extent has never been confirmed, as he's mentioned not being a fan of wrestling) but overall it's only a superficial connection at best as he still shares more in common with a martial artist than any wrestler (breaking tiles with a karate chop and wearing a gi for example).

Still sounds too old imo, but Brad's Gohan is def a standout from that dub.

Also, Ocean having good acting is subjective, I felt it had a rushed and awkward delivery half the time. There were moments where the actors sounded like they were more concerned to match the mouth flaps, Drummond had this problem with Vegeta a lot.

Alistair Abell's Trunks sounding "too old" is also a subjective opinion, one that I have never personally agreed with. As an older-looking teen with a brooding disposition (and one who takes himself seriously) I think the voice fits his age and personality fairly well. Need I remind you this is the same era that cast grown men as even younger looking teens in Gundam Wing. In my opinion he was appropriatley cast, his acting or misdirection was the only real issue.

And while we're on the subject of Alistair and what dub A did better than dub B, his version of the USSJ transformation scene wasn't as bad as Eric Vale's Z performance. Vale sounded like he was in pain during the entire thing. https://youtu.be/mK-rPpn8e08?t=1m9s

If you compare his take to Vale's, Abell sounds objectively older.

And as for that scene of Vale powering up, holy shit, that's bad.

[NitroEX]

If you compare his take to Vale's, Abell sounds objectively older.

True, but I wasn't saying that Abell doesn't sound older, I'm saying I don't think it matters for Future Trunks. If you listen to the Japanese voice, that also sounds a little older than Vale too.

[ABED]

You're the one splitting hairs. The southern accent comment was just an aside. The major point was there is no standard American accent.

"Stereotypical pro wrestler" is an even more broad term than me saying "southern",

It's really not. The stereotypical pro wrestling promo is something akin to Hogan or Savage. That loud over the top boisterous promo style is what many people associate with wrestling because they probably haven't seen much of it outside of Hogan and Savage. The breaking of the tiles has nothing to do with the voice. I fail to see your point. Whether he's influenced by wrestling isn't important. Mr. Satan is a showman and a braggart.

alien DBZ characters with foreign accents don't bother me because I think they work rather well.

Fine, I just wish you would realize this preference is incredibly arbitrary.

[Dbzfan94]

they would have changed Cell's VA when he transformed each time

Funimation didn't do that either. It was always Dameon Clarke. (By far the best English Cell)

[8000 Saiyan]

they would have changed Cell's VA when he transformed each time

Funimation didn't do that either.It was always Dameon Clarke. (By far the best English Cell)

I don't think anyone would argue that he's not the best.

[Robo4900]

Funimation didn't do that either. It was always Dameon Clarke.

Ah, my bad.

Still, their approaches to Cell were very different, and I seem to remember Dameon Clarke changing up his voice for the transformations a lot more than Dale Wilson did.

I don't think anyone would argue that he's not the best.

That's not quite true.

[8000 Saiyan]

Funimation didn't do that either. It was always Dameon Clarke.

Ah, my bad.

Still, their approaches to Cell were very different, and I seem to remember Dameon Clarke changing up his voice for the transformations a lot more than Dale Wilson did.

I don't think anyone would argue that he's not the best.

That's not quite true.

Oh, yeah, right. Some people prefer Wilson over him. I don't think Wilson's that bad, despite some terrible moments.

[Dbzfan94]

Funimation didn't do that either. It was always Dameon Clarke.

Ah, my bad.

Still, their approaches to Cell were very different, and I seem to remember Dameon Clarke changing up his voice for the transformations a lot more than Dale Wilson did.

I don't think anyone would argue that he's not the best.

That's not quite true.

Oh, yeah, right. Some people prefer Wilson over him. I don't think Wilson's that bad, despite some terrible moments.

Yeah, WIlson was just bad. Especially in Cell's death scene.

[8000 Saiyan]

Ah, my bad.

Still, their approaches to Cell were very different, and I seem to remember Dameon Clarke changing up his voice for the transformations a lot more than Dale Wilson did.


That's not quite true.

Oh, yeah, right. Some people prefer Wilson over him. I don't think Wilson's that bad, despite some terrible moments.

Yeah, WIlson was just bad. Especially in Cell's death scene.

I don't get how the voice director never said: "Yeah, Dale, that sucked. Let's go with another take."

[NitroEX]

You're the one splitting hairs. The southern accent comment was just an aside. The major point was there is no standard American accent.

I'm not saying there's a standard American accent! That being said, it is pretty evident that on American produced film and television the tendency is to have actors lean towards a certain type of accent that is closer to a North American speaking style. Obviously this could just be a byproduct of most mainstream productions being filmed or recorded in California (and even sometimes in Vancouver), but for whatever reason, that has more or less become the most common for American actors. If I turn on some random American TV show (whether it be sitcom, drama, talk show, cartoon, whatever) or a big budget film the main characters are more often than not going to sound varying degrees of North American. I'm sure someone who lives in America will hear a greater diversity of accents on the day to day but for global consumers of their media that is the type most commonly shown, at least in my experience. I'm not trying to say other accents are bad either, I enjoy them all when they're used appropriately in media but it's clear as day that a plain North American accent is treated as the "blank slate" (for a lack of a better word) in media.

Why do you think a globally popular and succesful character like Spider-Man is never portrayed as having a New York accent despite growing up in New York? The film studios know that the accent might alienate global audiences or bring with it preconceived notions of Peter Parker based on just the way he talks. The solution is always to give them a more plain speaking style except in cases where they actually want their character to be profiled in a certain way or to add more flavour to their personality.

It's really not. The stereotypical pro wrestling promo is something akin to Hogan or Savage. That loud over the top boisterous promo style is what many people associate with wrestling because they probably haven't seen much of it outside of Hogan and Savage. The breaking of the tiles has nothing to do with the voice. I fail to see your point. Whether he's influenced by wrestling isn't important. Mr. Satan is a showman and a braggart.

A stereotypical wrestler would vary between different generations. Not everyone can be expected to have grown up with Hogan and Savage, especially younger people. To them they may think of someone like Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, John Cena, Batista, Undertaker, Ultimate Warrior, Goldberg, Sting etc. As popular and wide reaching as the classic wrestlers were it's unrealistic to think that most would associate something from the 80s as the default.

Being a showman and a braggart isn't synonymous with sounding like a pro wrestler. Breaking tiles and wearing a gi informs us that his character has more in common with a martial artist than a wrestler, in fact, the loud boisterous Satan is constantly shown to be just a fake persona he puts on for the crowd. The wrestling connections are only superficial and shouldn't be the basis for his voice in my opinion.

Fine, I just wish you would realize this preference is incredibly arbitrary.

I think the same of your justifications for the voice, maybe you have a fondness for a particular wrestling persona but I have never personally found Rager's approach that fitting for Satan.

[ABED]

Nitro, I have already mentioned that point about TV and film execs not particularly liking "regional" accents. They think audiences find it off putting. There's no rationale besides that. I was the one that mentioned that and they don't know, they assume it will alienate foreign and even domestic audiences. The most recent Peter does give of a slight Queens accent.

A stereotypical wrestler

Stereotypical, stereotypical, STEREOTYPICAL. I don't know why you are bringing up specific wrestlers from today. I'm talking about what the popular conception of a pro wrestling promo is. Stereotypes are based in ignorance, so clearly, people who haven't watched it would have an inaccurate picture in their head. I think you underestimate how ubiquitous Hogan was and how cemented his image was in people's minds, including how people perceived pro wrestling. Of course it's not accurate, hence stereotype. And where did I ever claim being a showman and a braggart is synonymous with being a pro wrestler? You are making all sorts of odd leaps.

What exactly does a martial artist sound like? That's non specific. Wrestler is far more specific as they are inherently showmen.

I think the same of your justifications for the voice, maybe you have a fondness for a particular wrestling persona but I have never personally found Rager's approach that fitting for Satan.

It's not about a fondness for any particular wrestler, just that when I hear a showman like that, I hear stereotypical pro wrestler. Rager's approach isn't different from Gori's. The only difference is he speaks English. As for my justifications being arbitrary, yes they are, but I can admit that. You are trying to make some objective argument to why Rager should sound less southern.

Okay, to bring it back to Drummond - I have zero problem with his stereotypical evil performance. He does it with panache.

[8000 Saiyan]

One of the things I love about Drummond's Vegeta is that he seems like he really loves the sound of his own voice, like penguintruth said.

[MR.Mark]

Ah, my bad.

Still, their approaches to Cell were very different, and I seem to remember Dameon Clarke changing up his voice for the transformations a lot more than Dale Wilson did.


That's not quite true.

Oh, yeah, right. Some people prefer Wilson over him. I don't think Wilson's that bad, despite some terrible moments.

Yeah, WIlson was just bad. Especially in Cell's death scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56ZA0dza3JY

Watch out Wakamoto...

[DragonBallKing]

Oh, yeah, rlight. Some people prefer Wilson over him. I don't think Wilson's that bad, despite some terrible moments.

Yeah, WIlson was just bad. Especially in Cell's death scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56ZA0dza3JY

Watch out Wakamoto...

Pretty good but still not on Portuguese Dodoria's level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQVov2BNIcw
It's just beautiful

[8000 Saiyan]

Oh, yeah, right. Some people prefer Wilson over him. I don't think Wilson's that bad, despite some terrible moments.

Yeah, WIlson was just bad. Especially in Cell's death scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56ZA0dza3JY

Watch out Wakamoto...

Wilson would have had a great career in opera if he hadn't been a voice actor.

[TheGreatness25]

I don't get how the voice director never said: "Yeah, Dale, that sucked. Let's go with another take."

Oh how many scenarios this could actually apply to. You know, if someone watching the booths actually gave a crap, maybe some of the lines would not sound as horrendous as they did. I would also throw in that there was nobody that said: "Yeah, that sucked... Can we change this line right here? Thanks." I know that the actors were not all there at the same time and probably didn't know what they were reacting to, but still. There must have been someone who just didn't care at all. "How'd that sound, boss?" "Huh? Wha--? Oh... Uh... Yeah, that was great... Just... wonderful... I really think we'll catch the world by storm with that 'Cat Loves Food' thing, Chris! Good job on that delivery! God, I need a drink."

[8000 Saiyan]

I don't get how the voice director never said: "Yeah, Dale, that sucked. Let's go with another take."

Oh how many scenarios this could actually apply to. You know, if someone watching the booths actually gave a crap, maybe some of the lines would not sound as horrendous as they did. I would also throw in that there was nobody that said: "Yeah, that sucked... Can we change this line right here? Thanks." I know that the actors were not all there at the same time and probably didn't know what they were reacting to, but still. There must have been someone who just didn't care at all. "How'd that sound, boss?" "Huh? Wha--? Oh... Uh... Yeah, that was great... Just... wonderful... I really think we'll catch the world by storm with that 'Cat Loves Food' thing, Chris! Good job on that delivery! God, I need a drink."

And nobody told the Ocean voices for the Androids: "Yeah guys, more emotion and less monotone."

[TheGreatness25]

And nobody told the Ocean voices for the Androids: "Yeah guys, more emotion and less monotone."

lol I'm totally baffled by the late Ocean/Westwood dub. It's like... how did it happen? What went wrong? You take their work from the "Saiyan Conflict" and "Namek Saga," and you compare it to their later work. How the hell did it degenerate so badly? The Ocean dub did such a great job in those first episodes. I actually recently re-watched those early episodes and yes, the editing is crap, some name changes and pronunciations are weak, and I could take or leave the dialog, but the actors themselves were so good. They sounded professional, they sounded well-cast, and most importantly, they didn't sound cheap. And then... somehow... I don't know how, but somehow... it became what it became. Now if Funimation had directors who were too busy sleeping off their alcohol binge to care, then the Westwood team must have straight up checked out of the building.

[8000 Saiyan]

And nobody told the Ocean voices for the Androids: "Yeah guys, more emotion and less monotone."

lol I'm totally baffled by the late Ocean/Westwood dub. It's like... how did it happen? What went wrong? You take their work from the "Saiyan Conflict" and "Namek Saga," and you compare it to their later work. How the hell did it degenerate so badly? The Ocean dub did such a great job in those first episodes. I actually recently re-watched those early episodes and yes, the editing is crap, some name changes and pronunciations are weak, and I could take or leave the dialog, but the actors themselves were so good. They sounded professional, they sounded well-cast, and most importantly, they didn't sound cheap. And then... somehow... I don't know how, but somehow... it became what it became. Now if Funimation had directors who were too busy sleeping off their alcohol binge to care, then the Westwood team must have straight up checked out of the building.

Whoever was behind the production of the dub probably didn't care and wanted this dub on Canadian and European television as fast as possible. Oh, what I would give for a documentary behind this dub. What would be the proper title for it?

[TheGreatness25]

Whoever was behind the production of the dub probably didn't care and wanted this dub on Canadian and European television as fast as possible. Oh, what I would give for a documentary behind this dub. What would be the proper title for it?

"Dragon Slayer" or "How to Make Funimation Look Good."

Look, I get that it might have been a rush job, but you don't need to be slow and meticulous to give good direction. Even if all they had to work with was one take, they could have still been like, "Well in this scene you're shocked... And... go!" If they needed to use crappy stock music, couldn't they use less crappy stock music? And if they just had to write a new theme song, couldn't it have been a less crappy theme song? The entire thing was a bust and the only thing that makes me want to watch it is pure curiosity and nostalgia for voices like Brian Drummond.