How can Vegeta counter the Kaioken?

[nickzambuto]

Vegeta is supposed to be Goku's rival. And thus far in Super, Toei has been pretty consistent on mentioning that they are equal in every arc, with moments where one of them needs to fail while the other succeeds always having some explanation (I.E. Goku lost to Freeza while Vegeta succeeded only because he was blindsided, Vegeta lost easily to Hit while Goku did much better only because Vegeta lost most of his ki). It genuinely seems like Toei is portraying them as equals, every character in the story acts like they are equals, including Vegeta who seems pretty content with their relationship... but as fans, we know that the Kaioken changes everything.

If you were the writer, how would you handle this situation? Would you let Vegeta increase to a higher base power while Goku spends time focusing on mastering the Kaioken, thus their battles take on a similar relationship to how it was in the Saiyans arc? Or would you give Vegeta some kind of technique to counter the Kaioken outright?

[Lionel]

Vegeta can't compensate for the power disparity using that "genius talent" of his? I don't mean talent in the sense as it's generally referred to in this series. It would mean dexterity, strategic cleverness, and technical ingenuity; something to make up for his insufficient power. Since this is Dragon Ball, I think incorporating a classic core trait of his would be ideal. What would it be? Zenkais? Sentient Oozaru state? I like the latter more - meshing it with SSJB would put Vegeta exactly on par with Goku once again, barring any possible future usage of Kaioken x20.

[nickzambuto]

Vegeta can't compensate for the power disparity using that "genius talent" of his? I don't mean talent in the sense as it's generally referred to in this series. It would mean dexterity, strategic cleverness, and technical ingenuity; something to make up for his insufficient power. Since this is Dragon Ball, I think incorporating a classic core trait of his would be ideal. What would it be? Zenkais? Sentient Oozaru state? I like the latter more - meshing it with SSJB would put Vegeta exactly on par with Goku once again, barring any possible future usage of Kaioken x20.

Since Goku was based on Wukong the Monkey King, this would make Vegeta the Monkey God by comparison. Just another jab at Kakarotto that Vegeta can be smug about.

[sintzu]

The problem with the Kaioken is that it's not in Toriyama's outline so there's nothing Vegeta can do to counter it simply because it doesn't exist. I don't know if you read the manga but they're as equal as can be in it.

[Desassina]

He could probably turn into a Blue Oozaru Vegeta. In the anime, obviously, where Super Kaioken Blue is something of an extra.

[nickzambuto]

The problem with the Kaioken is that it's not in Toriyama's outline so there's nothing Vegeta can do to counter it simply because it doesn't exist. I don't know if you read the manga but they're as equal as can be in it.

Oh I didn't know that. But what about Goku's Mastered Blue technique that he used to fight Zamasu? That also gives him an edge over Vegeta, even in the manga.

[dbgtFO]

Oh I didn't know that. But what about Goku's Mastered Blue technique that he used to fight Zamasu? That also gives him an edge over Vegeta, even in the manga.

Give Vegeta a couple of days and I am sure he'll master it too.

[sintzu]

Oh I didn't know that. But what about Goku's Mastered Blue technique that he used to fight Zamasu? That also gives him an edge over Vegeta, even in the manga.

Give Vegeta a couple of days and I am sure he'll master it too.

[spoiler]He did, he uses it in the new chapter.[/spoiler]

[dbgtFO]

[spoiler]He did, he uses it in the new chapter.[/spoiler]

Dude, I know, but now you spoiled it

[Captain Strawberry]

Well... I guess I can say, with his mind and skill? We sort of saw something like this with Goku vs Merged Zamasu in the manga though Vegito did injure Zammy.

[sintzu]

Dude, I know, but now you spoiled it

Sorry.

I put it in a spoiler.

[dbgtFO]

Dude, I know, but now you spoiled it

Sorry.

I put it in a spoiler.

Well I already knew, it's more for the sake of nickzambuto and people who might not want to be spoiled.

[nickzambuto]

Well... I guess I can say, with his mind and skill? We sort of saw something like this with Goku vs Merged Zamasu in the manga though Vegito did injure Zammy.

I'm asking specifically. What strategy could Vegeta use?

[DBZ Macky]

Well... I guess I can say, with his mind and skill? We sort of saw something like this with Goku vs Merged Zamasu in the manga though Vegito did injure Zammy.

I'm asking specifically. What strategy could Vegeta use?

Catching him off-guard and/or throwing dirt in his eyes could work. If they brought back Goku's Kaio-Ken from the Saiyan/Namek arcs, then they could at least bring back the cunning Vegeta from the Saiyan/Namek arcs.

[nickzambuto]

Well... I guess I can say, with his mind and skill? We sort of saw something like this with Goku vs Merged Zamasu in the manga though Vegito did injure Zammy.

I'm asking specifically. What strategy could Vegeta use?

Catching him off-guard and/or throwing dirt in his eyes could work. If they brought back Goku's Kaio-Ken from the Saiyan/Namek arcs, then they could at least bring back the cunning Vegeta from the Saiyan/Namek arcs.

Cheap tactics might allow Vegeta to get in one or two free shots, but that's hardly enough when Goku can become up to 10 times stronger. Vegeta needs a longer-term counter, something more sustainable than just fighting dirty.

[theherodjl]

I'd have Vegeta master that rage he demonstrated from Bulma being slapped, he could encase his passionate anger within SSJB and then his hair, eyes, and aura would turn a violet, purplish color. Making it SSJV or Rage Master Vegeta I guess.
His power could fire up as much as his anger allows him, his SSJ strength briefly became more powerful than Ultimate Gohan so I think he could have a x10 boost covered.

[Captain Strawberry]

Well... I guess I can say, with his mind and skill? We sort of saw something like this with Goku vs Merged Zamasu in the manga though Vegito did injure Zammy.

I'm asking specifically. What strategy could Vegeta use?

He could try something like this: Do a barrage of the fully volley attack as a distraction and feint to fire a Final Flash?

Also keep in kind, Vegeta is pretty tanky. He can tank massive amounts of pain and damage.

Vegeta probably needs some sort of prediction or reflexes technique

[mallaard]

I'd have Vegeta master that rage he demonstrated from Bulma being slapped, he could encase his passionate anger within SSJB and then his hair, eyes, and aura would turn a violet, purplish color. Making it SSJV or Rage Master Vegeta I guess.
His power could fire up as much as his anger allows him, his SSJ strength briefly became more powerful than Ultimate Gohan so I think he could have a x10 boost covered.

I like this idea. Trunks did something similar with his weird sorta-Blue Super SSJ Rage mode recently, so maybe Vegeta could do it too, only he would already be in the full-on SSB state so his mode would be much higher than Trunks'. Maybe the Rage mode could be considered a specialty of the Vegeta family, and finally be a trick that he'd have over Goku?

[FoolsGil]

Develop a technique that prevents ki surging via Kaioken, or better yet, develop a technique that causes ki blowout when Kaioken is used.

[nickzambuto]

Well... I guess I can say, with his mind and skill? We sort of saw something like this with Goku vs Merged Zamasu in the manga though Vegito did injure Zammy.

I'm asking specifically. What strategy could Vegeta use?

He could try something like this: Do a barrage of the fully volley attack as a distraction and feint to fire a Final Flash?

Also keep in kind, Vegeta is pretty tanky. He can tank massive amounts of pain and damage.

Vegeta probably needs some sort of prediction or reflexes technique

Vegeta would need to work on mastering the Final Flash, because that technique requires quite a hefty chargeup. But this is definitely feasible.

Develop a technique that prevents ki surging via Kaioken, or better yet, develop a technique that causes ki blowout when Kaioken is used.

We've seen Beerus target pressure points that shut down ki flow. If Vegeta can learn these techniques, similar to how they block Chakra flow in Naruto, then he'll have the perfect counter to Kaioken. He can block Goku's ki and make activating the Kaioken suicide because Goku will explode, like when you put a potato in a tailpipe.