Considering that the nearly all new characters characters for the Universe 6/7 tournament arc (Zuno, Kaioshin of Universe 6, Hit, Cabba, Botamo, Frost, Magetta and Monaka) debuted in the manga two months before they appeared in the anime, (Zuno, Kaioshin of Universe 6, Hit, Cabba, Botamo, Frost, Magetta and Monaka debuted in Chapter 7 of the manga which was released in V-Jump on 12/19/2015, while in the anime, those characters debuted in Episodes 31 and 32 which were released on 14/2/2016 and 21/2/2016) I think it's safe to say that Toyotaro definitely got a heads up on what the new characters looked like from Toei's staff considering all he gets from Toriyama is basically a sheet of paper with words on them. And considering the anime would need to be first to know on what the new central characters would look like so they can sort out what kind of voice actors, based on the appearance of the character, would best suited for them, as well as figuring out how to expand the material to accommodate the new characters.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:So what? Toei was ahead of the manga in the Universe 6 & Future Trunks arcs, both in production and release. Toyotaro didn't just have Toriyama's story drafts, he also had his TV to watch the new episodes.Lord Beerus wrote:Given how much the production scale of manga and anime are widely different in circumstances, with the anime staff having to write and prepare episodes to be animated several months in advance, the staff at Toei most likely would have received not only the full plot outline from Toriyama before Toyotaro did, but also all the new character designs, miscellaneous drawings and conceptual art, as they would need a lot of time in advance to get their shit ready for when a new arc with new contents going to happen. Because just based on the new character designs, Toei would have organise hiring new voices actors, composing new music and bringing in more animators for certain episodes. All of that take months of preparations. Toyotaro doesn't have worry about all that stuff. He just needs to focus on getting from plot point A to plot point B for 30-40 pages worth of material within a month. Toei are under much more pressure to produce more material on a weekly basis, so they need every detail they can get from Toriyama way ahead of time.
Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
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Lord Beerus
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Re: Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
Of course Toyotaro got information prior the release of the episodes, especially when the manga was ahead of the anime. What's your point?Lord Beerus wrote:Considering that the nearly all new characters characters for the Universe 6/7 tournament arc (Zuno, Kaioshin of Universe 6, Hit, Cabba, Botamo, Frost, Magetta and Monaka) debuted in the manga two months before they appeared in the anime, (Zuno, Kaioshin of Universe 6, Hit, Cabba, Botamo, Frost, Magetta and Monaka debuted in Chapter 7 of the manga which was released in V-Jump on 12/19/2015, while in the anime, those characters debuted in Episodes 31 and 32 which were released on 14/2/2016 and 21/2/2016) I think it's safe to say that Toyotaro definitely got a heads up on what the new characters looked like from Toei's staff considering all he gets from Toriyama is basically a sheet of paper with words on them. And considering the anime would need to be first to know on what the new central characters would look like so they can sort out what kind of voice actors, based on the appearance of the character, would best suited for them, as well as figuring out how to expand the material to accommodate the new characters.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
DBZGTKOSDH is right, educated guesses are just that, guesses no matter how educated they are.
If we don't deal in facts it's just a slippery slope to what we end up considering facts.
As a wise man once said, if there is even 1% chance of being wrong, we must take it as an absolute certainty!(paraphrased)
If we don't deal in facts it's just a slippery slope to what we end up considering facts.
As a wise man once said, if there is even 1% chance of being wrong, we must take it as an absolute certainty!(paraphrased)
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Baggie_Saiyan
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Re: Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
You can't bring something back that didn't go away. Nothing in official material EVER explicitly 100% stated as fact that Goku and Vegeta couldn't go yellow SS again, nothing at all. Fans jumped the gun and assumed so based on a vague Toriyama quote where even he was unsure himself!Lord Beerus wrote:I think it needs to to be clarified that bringing back SSJ, SSJ2 and SSJ3 was Toriyama's intention. Not that of Toei. In both mediums of Dragon Ball Super (the anime and the manga), the interpretation of the events of Universe 6/7 Tournament and Future Trunks arc, which is based of a plot outline given to them from Toriyama, Goku and Vegeta use the golden line of SSJ transformations again.
Re: Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
As others said, there's nothing that 100% said that the golden line would go under but I probably should've since it's caused a lot of issues with regards to how Goku & Vegeta's powers even work.
In F it works like this: Base = God, Blue = SS.
Now? It's this: 1čadgmaćldfkf+03t+kaćegm,aćdlbmadlćgkaćdlrkwq0riršokavbćadohjadšfwoieq+0eogdpmadvaodmšgmadmgšoeqjšqeojtšqerkt
In F it works like this: Base = God, Blue = SS.
Now? It's this: 1čadgmaćldfkf+03t+kaćegm,aćdlbmadlćgkaćdlrkwq0riršokavbćadohjadšfwoieq+0eogdpmadvaodmšgmadmgšoeqjšqeojtšqerkt
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
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Lord Beerus
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Re: Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
The whole point our mini debate what that I stated that the (re)inclusion of the golden line of Super Sayain was Toriyama's intention and not that of Toei. And I brought up what we know about what goes on behind the scenes of the anime and manga to support that claim:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Of course Toyotaro got information prior the release of the episodes, especially when the manga was ahead of the anime. What's your point?Lord Beerus wrote:Considering that the nearly all new characters characters for the Universe 6/7 tournament arc (Zuno, Kaioshin of Universe 6, Hit, Cabba, Botamo, Frost, Magetta and Monaka) debuted in the manga two months before they appeared in the anime, (Zuno, Kaioshin of Universe 6, Hit, Cabba, Botamo, Frost, Magetta and Monaka debuted in Chapter 7 of the manga which was released in V-Jump on 12/19/2015, while in the anime, those characters debuted in Episodes 31 and 32 which were released on 14/2/2016 and 21/2/2016) I think it's safe to say that Toyotaro definitely got a heads up on what the new characters looked like from Toei's staff considering all he gets from Toriyama is basically a sheet of paper with words on them. And considering the anime would need to be first to know on what the new central characters would look like so they can sort out what kind of voice actors, based on the appearance of the character, would best suited for them, as well as figuring out how to expand the material to accommodate the new characters.
- All Toyotaro gets from Toriyama is piece of paper with words on it (The plot outline for Super)
- Toyotaro, up until he started collaborating with Toriyama in designing the characters for the Universal Survival arc, didn't get any kind of character designs or conceptual art from Toryama. Even though Toriyama is responsible for coming up with the original designs for any given new characters in the major arcs of Super.
- Toyotaro stated in the past that he received information from the anime staff. What other information could he receive when he's already given the plot outline from Toriyama himself? Character designs and other concept art. How could that be the information? Because the manga is a promotional tool for the anime. And what better way to advertise the anime then to give a sample of what the central new characters and settings look like before they make their big debut in the central product (the anime).
- Toyotaro doesn't deviate form the major plot points in Toriyama's story draft. And there are several fights and scenarios in the anime that happen in both mediums which are exact same. Right down to in some cases being what transformations are used and when they are used.
Sorted that out for you.dbgtFO wrote:DBZGTKOSDH is right, educated guesses are just that, guesses no matter how educated they are.
If we don't deal in facts it's just a slippery slope to what we end up considering facts.
As a deranged, violent psychopath who gets triggered by hearing his mother's name once said, if there is even 1% chance of being wrong, we must take it as an absolute certainty!(paraphrased)
Spoiler:
Re: Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
Hey, I'll have you know, that while off his rocker at times, he certainly had some nuggets of wisdom!Lord Beerus wrote:Sorted that out for you.dbgtFO wrote:DBZGTKOSDH is right, educated guesses are just that, guesses no matter how educated they are.
If we don't deal in facts it's just a slippery slope to what we end up considering facts.
As a deranged, violent psychopath who gets triggered by hearing his mother's name once said, if there is even 1% chance of being wrong, we must take it as an absolute certainty!(paraphrased)
[spoiler]or not
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
These are Toyotaro's sources: Toriyama's story drafts, information from the anime staff, the information he gets as an audience of the anime (from the point U6 arc went beyond the manga until the Future Trunks arc), and his own imagination. Yes, he doesn't deviate from major plot points, but he is allowed to add his own ideas, and he is also allowed to borrow ideas from the anime, just like Toei. You keep making big posts overanalizing & repeating again and again what we already know, what I already know and what I take into account when I'm answering you, trying to tell me why your safe assumptions are facts. We don't know everything, you are making assumptions, so stop treating your safe assumptions as facts. Jesus Christ, this is common sense.Lord Beerus wrote:The whole point our mini debate what that I stated that the (re)inclusion of the golden line of Super Sayain was Toriyama's intention and not that of Toei. And I brought up what we know about what goes on behind the scenes of the anime and manga to support that claim:
- All Toyotaro gets from Toriyama is piece of paper with words on it (The plot outline for Super)
- Toyotaro, up until he started collaborating with Toriyama in designing the characters for the Universal Survival arc, didn't get any kind of character designs or conceptual art from Toryama. Even though Toriyama is responsible for coming up with the original designs for any given new characters in the major arcs of Super.
- Toyotaro stated in the past that he received information from the anime staff. What other information could he receive when he's already given the plot outline from Toriyama himself? Character designs and other concept art. How could that be the information? Because the manga is a promotional tool for the anime. And what better way to advertise the anime then to give a sample of what the central new characters and settings look like before they make their big debut in the central product (the anime).
- Toyotaro doesn't deviate form the major plot points in Toriyama's story draft. And there are several fights and scenarios in the anime that happen in both mediums which are exact same. Right down to in some cases being what transformations are used and when they are used.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei
Since these things have happened both in the manga and in the anime, it's quite natural to conclude that it was Toriyama's decision. But whether it originated with Toriyama or not is of no consequence, the problem is that he did it in the first place.
Those minor instances such as Grade 3 Trunks or bulky Freeza did probably originate with Toei, on the other hand.
Those minor instances such as Grade 3 Trunks or bulky Freeza did probably originate with Toei, on the other hand.