Opinions on Jiren?

[Asura]

I read a comment this morning comparing Jiren to complex characters in Breaking Bad.

Maybe tomorrow I'll wake up and they'll be saying he's the next Citizen Kane of our time.

[TheBigBoy]

He's growing on me.

[FortuneSSJ]

He's still boring and there's nothing interesting to him.
A good backstory could save his character but Dragon Ball is not known for that, so unless his personality changes I think he's done. Toppo is the only interesting Pride Trooper.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I dont mind him. Hes written this way for a reason. Hes not supposed to be a hero or villain, he is here to compete for his universe not win over the audience.

[Lord Beerus]

I made this comment in my episode review of Super and I still stand by it: I like Jiren a lot.

I'm probably in the monitory, but I enjoy the non-expressive, stoic and somewhat altruistic nature of Jiren. He carries out this aura of person who always seem so confident in himself, with how he acted like the fight won after on major attack. He acted this way against Kale when he hit her with one blast during her rampage as SSJ Berserk and acted that way again in the double episode against SSJB Goku.

He seems to carry this supreme superiority complex about himself but he manages to balance that attitude so well with being so respectful and being the honourable martial artist he is to allow Goku to gather energy for his special attack (Genki Dama) as he wants to take on Goku with everything he has.

I enjoy that there there are no gimmicks surrounding Jiren, in terms of character or his design. He just as aloof and as no-nonsense as he carries himself out to be. And sometimes in those, less is more. And I find Jiren to be a good example of less being more.

But who knows how he could develop. We're not even halfway through the tournament yet. So his characterisation could go through some serious reshaping, and I would very much welcome that. But I'm satisfied with what I've gotten with him so far. He's a mysterious character who doesn't given away that much. And I appreciate that approach, too.

[fadeddreams5]

I dont mind him. Hes written this way for a reason. Hes not supposed to be a hero or villain, he is here to compete for his universe not win over the audience.

Isn't he literally supposed to be a superhero?

[Lord Beerus]

I dont mind him. Hes written this way for a reason. Hes not supposed to be a hero or villain, he is here to compete for his universe not win over the audience.

Isn't he literally supposed to be a superhero?

He's a deconstruction of a superhero, if anything. Along with the rest of the Pride Troopers. Toppo epitomises this. He has such a insanely black and white morality to what constitutes as "good" and what constitutes as "evil", and how all crimes and forms of evil, no matter how minor, should be dealt with the same immensely harsh punishment (death), that by some certain standards, you couldn't even call him or the rest of the Pride Troopers superheros.

[Asura]

I dont mind him. Hes written this way for a reason. Hes not supposed to be a hero or villain, he is here to compete for his universe not win over the audience.

Isn't he literally supposed to be a superhero?

He's a deconstruction of a superhero, if anything. Along with the rest of the Pride Troopers. Toppo epitomises this. He has such a insanely black and white morality to what constitutes as "good" and what constitutes as "evil", and how all crimes and forms of evil, no matter how minor, should be dealt with the same immensely harsh punishment (death), that by some certain standards, you couldn't even call him or the rest of the Pride Troopers superheros.

Wait, where did you get the impression that Toppo believes every crime should be punishable by death, even the most minor of offenses? I mean, this isn't Hot Fuzz.

And you can still have someone who isn't hero or villain while giving them some form of personality, or anything interesting about them all. I feel like people deal with a lot of ultimatums when it comes to Dragon Ball, like Jiren has to be this way, otherwise they wouldn't be able to drive the point of his character home. Or Vegeta has to not give Goku his energy just so he can swat away Ribrianne like a fly.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Isn't he literally supposed to be a superhero?

He's a deconstruction of a superhero, if anything. Along with the rest of the Pride Troopers. Toppo epitomises this. He has such a insanely black and white morality to what constitutes as "good" and what constitutes as "evil", and how all crimes and forms of evil, no matter how minor, should be dealt with the same immensely harsh punishment (death), that by some certain standards, you couldn't even call him or the rest of the Pride Troopers superheros.

Wait, where did you get the impression that Toppo believes every crime should be punishable by death, even the most minor of offenses? I mean, this isn't Hot Fuzz.

And you can still have someone who isn't hero or villain while giving them some form of personality, or anything interesting about them all. I feel like people deal with a lot of ultimatums when it comes to Dragon Ball, like Jiren has to be this way, otherwise they wouldn't be able to drive the point of his character home. Or Vegeta has to not give Goku his energy just so he can swat away Ribrianne like a fly.

Ultimately, the question falls to whether or not such things are what's needed/wanted for the character.

In my own personal opinion, Jiren doesn't need those things. I quite like how he himself believes that only his power is what people should concern themselves with. I love a good quirky character as much as the next guy, but sometimes I don't want another Goku Black, Beerus, or Freeza. Sometimes, I just want a Jiren, a guy that's there to have the biggest stick and be the next big opponent to try and surpass.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I dont mind him. Hes written this way for a reason. Hes not supposed to be a hero or villain, he is here to compete for his universe not win over the audience.

Isn't he literally supposed to be a superhero?

I mean in terms of this tournament mostly. To be fair we dont know if Jiren is a hero like Superman or if hes more layered or what personality wise.

He doesnt seem like a man of many words.

[Lord Beerus]

Isn't he literally supposed to be a superhero?

He's a deconstruction of a superhero, if anything. Along with the rest of the Pride Troopers. Toppo epitomises this. He has such a insanely black and white morality to what constitutes as "good" and what constitutes as "evil", and how all crimes and forms of evil, no matter how minor, should be dealt with the same immensely harsh punishment (death), that by some certain standards, you couldn't even call him or the rest of the Pride Troopers superheros.

Wait, where did you get the impression that Toppo believes every crime should be punishable by death, even the most minor of offenses? I mean, this isn't Hot Fuzz.

And you can still have someone who isn't hero or villain while giving them some form of personality, or anything interesting about them all. I feel like people deal with a lot of ultimatums when it comes to Dragon Ball, like Jiren has to be this way, otherwise they wouldn't be able to drive the point of his character home. Or Vegeta has to not give Goku his energy just so he can swat away Ribrianne like a fly.

Because Toppo openly admits that he punishes all evil, small, normal or big, with the same kind of punishment. And we see how he punishes evil in Episode 85. In fact, Toppo even proudly announces "Death to evildoers!" during his fight with Goku in the Zen Exhibition Match, while he is in the process of bear-hugging Goku to death.

Those are pretty Knight Templar-ish statements to make for a member of a group that are basically considered the Justice League of Universe 11.

[GodKaio-Ken]

He's a deconstruction of a superhero, if anything. Along with the rest of the Pride Troopers. Toppo epitomises this. He has such a insanely black and white morality to what constitutes as "good" and what constitutes as "evil", and how all crimes and forms of evil, no matter how minor, should be dealt with the same immensely harsh punishment (death), that by some certain standards, you couldn't even call him or the rest of the Pride Troopers superheros.

Wait, where did you get the impression that Toppo believes every crime should be punishable by death, even the most minor of offenses? I mean, this isn't Hot Fuzz.

And you can still have someone who isn't hero or villain while giving them some form of personality, or anything interesting about them all. I feel like people deal with a lot of ultimatums when it comes to Dragon Ball, like Jiren has to be this way, otherwise they wouldn't be able to drive the point of his character home. Or Vegeta has to not give Goku his energy just so he can swat away Ribrianne like a fly.

Because Toppo openly admits that he punishes all evil, small, normal or big, with the same kind of punishment. And we see how he punishes evil in Episode 85. In fact, Toppo even proudly announces "Death to evildoers!" during his fight with Goku in the Zen Exhibition Match, while he is in process of bear-higging Goku to death.

Those are pretty Knight Templar-ish statements to make for a member of a group that are basically considered the Justice League of Universe 11.

Stole a candy bar? Justice Flash.

Robbed a bank while armed? Justice Flash.

[Lord Beerus]

Wait, where did you get the impression that Toppo believes every crime should be punishable by death, even the most minor of offenses? I mean, this isn't Hot Fuzz.

And you can still have someone who isn't hero or villain while giving them some form of personality, or anything interesting about them all. I feel like people deal with a lot of ultimatums when it comes to Dragon Ball, like Jiren has to be this way, otherwise they wouldn't be able to drive the point of his character home. Or Vegeta has to not give Goku his energy just so he can swat away Ribrianne like a fly.

Because Toppo openly admits that he punishes all evil, small, normal or big, with the same kind of punishment. And we see how he punishes evil in Episode 85. In fact, Toppo even proudly announces "Death to evildoers!" during his fight with Goku in the Zen Exhibition Match, while he is in process of bear-hugging Goku to death.

Those are pretty Knight Templar-ish statements to make for a member of a group that are basically considered the Justice League of Universe 11.

Stole a candy bar? Justice Flash.

Robbed a bank while armed? Justice Flash.

Dammit. Now I can't get the image of Toppo blasting a 10 year old for stealing a candy bar from a store out of my head.

[KayDash]

I dont mind him. Hes written this way for a reason. Hes not supposed to be a hero or villain, he is here to compete for his universe not win over the audience.

Isn't he literally supposed to be a superhero?

I mean in terms of this tournament mostly. To be fair we dont know if Jiren is a hero like Superman or if hes more layered or what personality wise.

He doesnt seem like a man of many words.

Maybe the Pride Troopers rather have him as a friend then an enemy, and invited him to their hero group.

Btw, they already hinted in these episodes that Jiren probably got his strenght from some unusual methods, and he also intends to win the Super Dragon Balls. I'm pretty sure we will see more of his personality as the story arc progresses.
To be honest, I actually enjoy a "villain" who acts instead of the usual egoistic trash-talking.

[sintzu]

So far he's one of the most boring characters ever introduced by Toriyama. He has 0 personality and barely says anything. It makes me question weather or not he was written by Toriyama or just designed by him.

[Scorpio Kardia]

Well he has like a super high power level with lots of zeros and not even Goku can beat him (yet). He is also drawn in some pretty awkward ways at times, it must be because of all those big gorilla like muscles, which means he totally lifts and that he is very manly. What else is there? Oh hmmm...I thought his eye attack was kind of cool. There I admit it!

[BlueBasilisk]

Because Toppo openly admits that he punishes all evil, small, normal or big, with the same kind of punishment. And we see how he punishes evil in Episode 85. In fact, Toppo even proudly announces "Death to evildoers!" during his fight with Goku in the Zen Exhibition Match, while he is in process of bear-hugging Goku to death.

Those are pretty Knight Templar-ish statements to make for a member of a group that are basically considered the Justice League of Universe 11.

And Belmod and Khai's actions in this most recent episode lend a lot of credence to the idea that Universe 11's ideas of justice are somewhat...skewed, let's say. In fact, Belmod's personality seemed entirely in-line with his manga counterpart's from the most recent chapter.

[Asura]

Sometimes, I just want a Jiren, a guy that's there to have the biggest stick and be the next big opponent to try and surpass.

So then you don't want an actual character, you just want a wall for Goku to surpass? That's pretty boring, and if a character's only purpose is to just be a wall for Goku to surpass without anything inherently interesting about him in terms of abilities, personality, etc. then I guess that makes Jiren a pretty bad antagonist, doesn't it? If the sole reason he exists is just so Goku can surpass him and not really even be much of a character in his own regard, then yeah that's a pretty bad antagonist.

I'm sure they'll obviously give him more character and more backstory as the tournament goes on, but some of this stuff should have been revealed to us already. I enjoyed how Jiren was just a looming entity during most of the tournament and my impression was they were going to hold out on personifying him and giving him more lines until his fight with Goku, but they still didn't do that. He's cool because of how strong he is, and that's about all that there is to him and his character. I understand that people like and respect his strength, but in terms of actual character he has none. It's just like you said, so far he's just a big stick, not a character.

And people will use the excuse that it's too early to say these things and that we'll learn more about him later, but the problem is we should have started learning a little more about him now. We should have started to feel out some kind of personality by now. He should be saying more than three words every fourth episode by now. I can't get invested in a character if he doesn't become interesting until the very end of the arc.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Sometimes, I just want a Jiren, a guy that's there to have the biggest stick and be the next big opponent to try and surpass.

So then you don't want an actual character, you just want a wall for Goku to surpass? That's pretty boring, and if a character's only purpose is to just be a wall for Goku to surpass without anything inherently interesting about him in terms of abilities, personality, etc. then I guess that makes Jiren a pretty bad antagonist, doesn't it? If the sole reason he exists is just so Goku can surpass him and not really even be much of a character in his own regard, then yeah that's a pretty bad antagonist.

I'm sure they'll obviously give him more character and more backstory as the tournament goes on, but some of this stuff should have been revealed to us already. I enjoyed how Jiren was just a looming entity during most of the tournament and my impression was they were going to hold out on personifying him and giving him more lines until his fight with Goku, but they still didn't do that. He's cool because of how strong he is, and that's about all that there is to him and his character. I understand that people like and respect his strength, but in terms of actual character he has none. It's just like you said, so far he's just a big stick, not a character.

And people will use the excuse that it's too early to say these things and that we'll learn more about him later, but the problem is we should have started learning a little more about him now. We should have started to feel out some kind of personality by now. He should be saying more than three words every fourth episode by now. I can't get invested in a character if he doesn't become interesting until the very end of the arc.

That's perfectly fine to think what you think.

I'm merely of the opinion that we don't always need enthralling engagement for every single character we're introduced to keep us viewers invested. For me, Jiren works as a narrative device AND a character BECAUSE he's not flashy or particularly enthralling. He's a force of nature to be reckoned with, something that's intimidating but doesn't necessarily need to give you a backstory or exchange banters and quips.

I don't need Jiren himself to be interesting by normal standards because what's interesting about him is how he influences the rest of the cast and the overall narrative. He's the ultimate wall, the immovable object where you shouldn't concern yourself with his personality quirks, but rather just how imposing this guy is. Many times, I've heard the argument that the series has always been predicated on power, and that to not be consistent with that is to violate a core tenant of the franchise. Well, this guy is all about that power that people say is a core tenant of the series.

Besides that, Jiren is very clearly not the main antagonist, so to speak. He doesn't present himself as one, nor does the narrative treat him as that. Instead, it's the stakes of this tournament itself that's the main antagonist for our heroes.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Sometimes, I just want a Jiren, a guy that's there to have the biggest stick and be the next big opponent to try and surpass.

So then you don't want an actual character, you just want a wall for Goku to surpass? That's pretty boring, and if a character's only purpose is to just be a wall for Goku to surpass without anything inherently interesting about him in terms of abilities, personality, etc. then I guess that makes Jiren a pretty bad antagonist, doesn't it? If the sole reason he exists is just so Goku can surpass him and not really even be much of a character in his own regard, then yeah that's a pretty bad antagonist.

I'm sure they'll obviously give him more character and more backstory as the tournament goes on, but some of this stuff should have been revealed to us already. I enjoyed how Jiren was just a looming entity during most of the tournament and my impression was they were going to hold out on personifying him and giving him more lines until his fight with Goku, but they still didn't do that. He's cool because of how strong he is, and that's about all that there is to him and his character. I understand that people like and respect his strength, but in terms of actual character he has none. It's just like you said, so far he's just a big stick, not a character.

And people will use the excuse that it's too early to say these things and that we'll learn more about him later, but the problem is we should have started learning a little more about him now. We should have started to feel out some kind of personality by now. He should be saying more than three words every fourth episode by now. I can't get invested in a character if he doesn't become interesting until the very end of the arc.

People love Caulifla and Kale just for being female Saiyans. The show isnt full of well written characters in general...even since original Dragon Ball.

Toriyama has always written very interesting scenarios but weak characters IMO.

That doesnt mean all his characters are bad before some people get upset. Hes a fun writer with many strengths...just saying his characters have never really been amazing generally. Especially when it comes to backstory.