Super Episode 113 (29 October 2017)

[SansrivaaL]

His not improving strength wise. His improving his fighting instincts sense he can't rely on pure power to win due to losing his stamina. You don't need to be at full power to be able to improve your fighting instincts, you only really need to cornered in some respect. Thats generally what I'm getting from the dialogue.[spoiler][/spoiler]

My thoughts as well, he's still in dire need of stamina he even says he doesnt have enough to maintain SSJ3 so he wasnt getting stronger power wise, it was more on the mind.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Subs really do make a difference!

At first, I thought this was just a 'middle of the road' tier but solid episode, but finding out what they're actually saying it turned out pretty amazing.

Caulifla mentioning that she has to pick up the slack for her team due to hit being out is a pretty nice development, as well as Goku being a mentor figure.

Then maybe next time wait an extra hour and watch the legal simulcast?

There is absolutely no reason to watch raw broadcasts anymore. It just ruins the first experience.

[HeroR]

Easily the best episode besides #109-110. Nice callbacks and to have Goku turn SS2 like it's not nothing was nice too. SS3 thing was pure fan service lol it felt like Toei saying yes we know this form exists here

Still hate the SS colouring but whatever.

So turned out people were wrong about Cauli and SS3, say it ain't so! Like these people ain't learned their lesson from last time.

People are still mad since she could still get it.

[SHINOBI-03]

Please tell me these "Teasers" aren't going to be the norm from now on. What's the point if we're going to see them in the episode anyway?

On the episode itself, I liked the fight. Half expected Caulifa to give up once she sees what Super Saiyan 3 looks like but guess the fight is going to be a bit longer now with Kale going berserk again.

[SansrivaaL]

Please tell me these "Teasers" aren't going to be the norm from now on. What's the point if we're going to see them in the episode anyway?

Those teasers started ever since the special began, now everytime I open up the TV I need to mute the damn tv and shut my eyes for a few seconds just to avoid it.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Easily the best episode besides #109-110. Nice callbacks and to have Goku turn SS2 like it's not nothing was nice too. SS3 thing was pure fan service lol it felt like Toei saying yes we know this form exists here

Still hate the SS colouring but whatever.

So turned out people were wrong about Cauli and SS3, say it ain't so! Like these people ain't learned their lesson from last time.

People are still made since she could still get it.

Vegeta said Cabba could get SSGSS if he trained hard. Doesn't mean anything unless they get the transformation. Technically any Saiyan can get any form so what the hell are people getting mad at?

Please tell me these "Teasers" aren't going to be the norm from now on. What's the point if we're going to see them in the episode anyway?

On the episode itself, I liked the fight. Half expected Caulifa to give up once she sees what Super Saiyan 3 looks like but guess the fight is going to be a bit longer now with Kale going berserk again.

Unless you live in Japan this shouldn't be an issue as the simulcast doesn't have them. Anyway it's probably easy to avoid.

[Freezerbaby]

Toei has completely forgot about this tournament being a battle royale, no vegeta vs toppo, no androids actions, no gohan-piccolo vs namekians, no freeza scenes...
Besides, almost all the figths goku is involved are about him holding back and letting his foes go all out just for fun,please, erasure of the universe is on the line, knock them off and move to the next, no wonder freeza is getting all this love from the fans, he beats up his opponent then kick him out in no time.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I really liked this episode.

Caulifla is a go-getter, most of all, so seeking Goku out so that she can improve herself is a natural action to take.

I really like how they emphasized Goku's martial arts background, and how this makes him such a good fighter. At the same time, I like how they acknowledge that Caulifla is a Saiyan with a lot of potential who constantly seeks to improve herself. She is indeed Goku's counterpart, much like how Cabba is Vegeta's.

The fight was weighty and fast-paced, with lots of good moves thrown around. And Kale joining is was also pretty nice to see.

[TysonWine]

I re-watched the episode, and it really hammered home a few points to me. I feel I should go over the episode to slowly build up why I felt it didn't really work. First of all, it starts with Goku quite clearly saying he can't use all of his power, as he's still weakened from his fight with Jiren. Caulifla then swoops in and knocks away all 3 robots individually in her base form. Afterwards, she states that, thanks to Cabba, she's recovered all of her strength and goes SSJ2. She asks Goku to teach her SSJ3, which he immediately agrees to. She asks why he doesn't transform, and he states it's because he's still tired from facing Jiren. The two then fight, with Caulifla flying in and attacking. All of her attacks miss and Goku is able to evade her almost flawlessly. He then outpaces her (as a tired, base form Goku no less) to counterattack. Whis interrupts and says strength is no match for true martial arts (which is BS if you consider DBZ, but whatever). Afterwards, he utilizes both the Afterimage technique and Instant Transmission to gain an edge over her in what was probably the better part of the fight, in my opinion.

Now, everything up until this point hasn't really been all that bad. The two main points, however, are that Goku has stated multiple times that he's fatigued and that Caulifla apparently is little more than a brawler. Keep this in mind as I continue here. So, Caulifla manages to block one of Goku's IT attacks. He compliments her and they go into a series of close-range attacks. The two are even and end up clashing fists, with worn-out base Goku clashing evenly with Caulifla. Whis interjects again, saying that Caulifla has a massive amount of potential, and fighting Goku is bringing all of that potential out (keep in mind that this is all happening over the course of a few seconds; not days, not hours, not even minutes, but a few seconds). Beerus questions Whis, claiming "Didn't you say she was just a brawler?" Whis responds by acting aloof; "Oh, did I say that?"

So now we've backpedaled on the "Caulifla is just a simple brawler" idea. Continuing on, they keep fighting equally until Caulifla eventually lands a kick. Goku then goes SSJ2 (it's definitely SSJ2, you can see the lightning effects) and the two fight... and it's just as equal as it was prior to transforming. The fight looks almost exactly the same as before he transformed, albeit now he has golden hair. Seriously, their attacks continue to be equal in strength, Caulifla still manages to get in a hit and the two clash ki blasts, with them canceling out. Goku then apparently has the gall to say that she's apparently gained mastery over SSJ2, despite their fight being literally less than a minute in-universe: "I know I told you that you'll need to master Super Saiyan 2 first, but this is beyond what I imagined."

This is where everything comes together, in my opinion. Despite being seemingly "fatigued," Goku flawlessly avoids everything Caulifla throws at him initially and simultaneously continues to grow stronger and stronger. He even knocks her around as if he's toying with her; in fact, he may well be. But that runs counter to being "fatigued;" so why hammer home this point if you're going to basically immediately dismiss it? Caulifla is stated to be a simple brawler, but she is apparently so "filled with potential" that she can overcome that in a few seconds and immediately counter Goku. Why introduce the concept if you're going to immediately do a 180 on it? Finally, they have Goku transform, but there is no visible indication to any improvement on Goku's part upon powering up. What is the point, then? Why indicate a jump in power if visually he appears to do just as well as he was doing before transforming?

That leads to the ultimate point on why this episode didn't really work for me: nothing felt important. It all felt like pure filler to just eat up a bit of time. A setup to the eventual fusion that's coming. I gained nothing from the episode save seeing Goku be more enjoyable as a character than he was for most of the tournament. I gained nothing from this episode. And now I've spent all this time making this point on why I gained nothing from this episode. Guess the joke's on me. Anyway, I hope this can better clarify why I felt this episode didn't work for me.

Watched the episode again, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm getting tired of the arc. I've got tournament fatigue. All this fighting is leaving me bored, and nothing new happened in this episode. Nobody got a power-up, nobody got eliminated, no new characters were introduced, and nobody was really challenged in any interesting way. Caulifla isn't trying to knock Goku out, I understand her motivations, she feels like if U6 is going to stand a chance that she needs to get stronger and that Goku is her only chance of gaining more power at this point in the tournament. But this episode was just filler. One long brawl that didn't amount to anything. I have other issues with it like Goku's stamina, power scaling being all. over. the place, etc, but the main problem for me is, this arc is dragging along as it is and one whole episode of fighting in which there aren't any stakes and no actual results is more of what this arc doesn't need.

Excellent post. It tackles a few of the episode's main issues without having to talk about any sort of "power levels" or "multipliers" that seem to be people's main sticking points.

I agree with all of this. Caulifla being a brainless brawler that has to learn the tools of the trade could've been good for potential growth, but it's literally thrown away in two seconds, because of her potential. I had no problem with the explanation of why base Goku was doing well against SSJ2 Caulifla, but they didn't stick with it. I would think SSJ2 Goku would overwhelm her, based on what he could do in his base but the battle was the same because Caulifla's power apparently doesn't stop rising no matter what.

I said before this battle took place that it has to end in someone getting eliminated or be interrupted. There's no way we can spend three episodes on this fight with no eliminations or interruptions because we wouldn't be going anywhere. It would feel like filler, just to past the time. Goku let the girls walk away once already, and I'm not sure I want the entirety of the fusion to just fight him. I like Goku and I don't dislike the girls, and while I don't mind them being involved, it doesn't feel like their battle is taking place during the tournament. I know that sounds weird and it's hard for me to explain, but without the cuts to the Gods talking, I wouldn't know it was a battle royal. Remember when the TOP first started and we visually saw everyone contributing, we knew where we were. However, the combination of the Saiyans sparring without mean intentions and the lack of other characters being shown feels like they're in their own world. Almost like we're taking a break from the tournament within the tournament.

[Gafonso6]

Please tell me these "Teasers" aren't going to be the norm from now on. What's the point if we're going to see them in the episode anyway?

On the episode itself, I liked the fight. Half expected Caulifa to give up once she sees what Super Saiyan 3 looks like but guess the fight is going to be a bit longer now with Kale going berserk again.

Unless you live in Japan this shouldn't be an issue as the simulcast doesn't have them. Anyway it's probably easy to avoid.

Daisuki has them and AnimeLab too.

[Olympian]

So Kale was fighting as a regular Super Saiyan in this episode? In her Beserk form she was able to walk through a blast from Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

So you're saying this stage should put her on Blue level, but it's likely not going to be like that.

You were told Goku just used a fraction of his Blue power then, you refused to believe

it's also a plus that power levels don't matter as much anymore.

Are you sure about that? The same was the case in Dragon Ball Z filler, such as Yamcha > Olibu and many more. This only introduces chaos and confusion.

It`s been that way for a long time. Buu arc also had Goten with no combat/battlefield experience attain the Saiyan form outta nowehere for sake of plot.

It doesn`t matter in the end, all these guys are prodigies.

[Kinokima]

Please tell me these "Teasers" aren't going to be the norm from now on. What's the point if we're going to see them in the episode anyway?

On the episode itself, I liked the fight. Half expected Caulifa to give up once she sees what Super Saiyan 3 looks like but guess the fight is going to be a bit longer now with Kale going berserk again.

Unless you live in Japan this shouldn't be an issue as the simulcast doesn't have them. Anyway it's probably easy to avoid.

Daisuki has them and AnimeLab too.

So does Crunchyroll starting with this episode. But at least with CR it is easy enough to skip with the ff 15 sec button.


Anyways I enjoyed this episode. It was a really fun fight and I enjoy seeing strong female characters in DB. I also like that the episode highlighted Goku’s experience and Caulifla’s potential.


I also think it was great that the entire episode was dedicated to this whole fight because it makes the episode runs more smoothly. But it also annoys me that for some reason they can’t do that with every episode. Fights feeling too short and choppy are one of my main issues with the TOP.

However I do still feel 3 episodes dedicated to just Goku, Cauflia and Kale is too much. Especially when we still have so many characters left. It seems a bit overkill. Although I would have found it funny if Goku and Caulifla blow out those 2 fighters who blew away out of bounds. Too bad that didn’t happen (they didnt really seem like important characters so I don’t think everyone needs to have a big exit).


I am looking forward to the fusion but at this point I am more excited to find out what characters will be featured in ep 116 and beyond.

[Tombstone1988]

I like Goku and I don't dislike the girls, and while I don't mind them being involved, it doesn't feel like their battle is taking place during the tournament. I know that sounds weird and it's hard for me to explain, but without the cuts to the Gods talking, I wouldn't know it was a battle royal. Remember when the TOP first started and we visually saw everyone contributing, we knew where we were. However, the combination of the Saiyans sparring without mean intentions and the lack of other characters being shown feels like they're in their own world. Almost like we're taking a break from the tournament within the tournament.

I get what you mean, as this is one of my gripes as well. We are in the middle of deciding the fates of 8 universes; this entire episode felt like they were just training in the ROSAT or something. I don't mind not seeing everyone during every episode, but it's a little bizarre that the other universes (particularly Universe 3) are just sitting around letting Goku train with Universe 6. Oh, but they were knocked away, so I guess they gave up on taking out Goku. Yeah, that definitely makes sense. /sarcasm

Recovering stamina by fighting doesn't make sense either, even by Dragon Ball's twisted logic.

This times a thousand. This is completely contrary to Dragon Ball's normal logic. Are we just going to forget about the fight against Kid Buu now? Also, if fighting recovers stamina, shouldn't Piccolo have been able to fight against 17 indefinitely and not, you know, gradually losing strength? I don't recall Goku gaining strength/stamina the longer his fight with Perfect Cell went on. In fact, he seemed pretty exhausted by the end of it. Almost like it took a lot out of him. And wasn't it Super itself that hammered home the idea of "Goku and Vegeta aren't always transforming in order to conserve stamina?" Yet he freely goes SSJ2 when trying to recover stamina? Don't you think that's just the tiniest bit contradictory?

[Li'l Lemmy]

I'm calling it now, Caulifa and Kale will come to U7 and become mainstays of the cast for the rest of the series.

Please God no.

I hope that they go away after this, or that we at least get a break from them in the next arc. Caulifla makes me want to burn my hand on a stove.

[dbgtFO]

I'm calling it now, Caulifa and Kale will come to U7 and become mainstays of the cast for the rest of the series.

Please God no.

I hope that they go away after this, or that we at least get a break from them in the next arc. Caulifla makes me want to burn my hand on a stove.

They will come and then they will "accidentally" kill off Goten and Trunks and nobody will care enough to wish them back. Only in filler episodes do we get to see them hanging out on Kaio's planet and telling the others to wish them back, when the gang needs to use the Dragon Balls for some stupid wish, they don't actually need the Dragon Balls for.
Future is bleak for Goten and kid Trunks fans

[LightBing]

I know they "justified" Goku being in base and giving a beating to Caulifla. That doesn't fly with me, you can't just ignore well established rules to this degree. .

They sure as hell can. This isn't a video game. There aren't any rules that state that "if Enemy saiyan is in state [ NUM ] then user saiyan must be =< state to engage or face loss" . Even if it was a rule, it's a shitty rule and I'm glad they're ignoring it and that someone doesn't need straight up power for a guarenteed win and can rely on their decades of skill and abilities.

Goku is the better fighter and they showed that without having to resort to Hair color to indicate it.

They can if their intention is to alienate the audience. The show has gone down the rabbit hole, there's no rules in anything. One week Goku might be at death's door and the next he's taking 20 people at the same time like it was nothing.

In this aspect in particular it's about finding a middle ground. I'm on board to give more leeway about how skill and other factors matter, it only improves the show like the Master Roshi episode proves, but we need rules in the narrative otherwise nothing matters.

Like I said Goku being SSJ would be a great compromise, why they didn't do it I don't know. I guess people just swallow everything if it aligns with their preferences.
Cant wait until Goku pulls a sword out of his ass if swordsman's becomes a fad or turns into a "Neko Goku" to be more cute.

[Lord Beerus]

Very good episode.

The introspective from Whis about the fundamentals of martial arts really hammered home just ho unrefined of a fighter Caulifla is and how much of seasoned veteran Goku is. It's another one of those instances of where skill trumps power in Super and I really enjoy how much the show plays up to that aspect.

The fight itself between Goku and Caulifla was very enjoyable. I enjoyed the dynamics between Caulifla and Goku, and I really enjoyed how much Caulifla managed to adapt very well to her fight with Goku to hold her own. Caulifla continues to ooze so much personality with how confident she is battle, how she learns to adapt to scenario where her back is against the wall, her self belief that she can continue to break glass ceilings and hopefully defeat opponents stronger than her.

Kale is really starting grow on me more, too. Primarily because she's showing more enthusiasm and general enjoyment in battle. Her tag teaming with Caulifla was joy to watch and was long overdue.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I'm calling it now, Caulifa and Kale will come to U7 and become mainstays of the cast for the rest of the series.

Please God no.

I hope that they go away after this, or that we at least get a break from them in the next arc. Caulifla makes me want to burn my hand on a stove.

They will come and then they will "accidentally" kill off Goten and Trunks and nobody will care enough to wish them back. Only in filler episodes do we get to see them hanging out on Kaio's planet and telling the others to wish them back, when the gang needs to use the Dragon Balls for some stupid wish, they don't actually need the Dragon Balls for.
Future is bleak for Goten and kid Trunks fans

Not sure if sarcasm or serious. .-.

[HeroR]

Please God no.

I hope that they go away after this, or that we at least get a break from them in the next arc. Caulifla makes me want to burn my hand on a stove.

They will come and then they will "accidentally" kill off Goten and Trunks and nobody will care enough to wish them back. Only in filler episodes do we get to see them hanging out on Kaio's planet and telling the others to wish them back, when the gang needs to use the Dragon Balls for some stupid wish, they don't actually need the Dragon Balls for.
Future is bleak for Goten and kid Trunks fans

Not sure if sarcasm or serious. .-.

Goku is going to take Cali and Kale home with him thanks to a special request from Zen'o. That way, he finally get the children he always wanted instead of the losers he was stuck with.

[julianix]

Why did ssj2 Goku not destroy Caulifa and kale? It goes against all logic. Even tired and messing around Gokus ssj2 should be well above theirs. This show is getting ridiculous.

Dbs just confirmed that ssj is a set level...

So current ssj2 Goku is the same strength as dbz ssj2 Goku. No other way this makes sense.