How Califla made Gohan look pathetic

[IGhostUlt]

I don't think this comparison is fair. From the very beginning Gohan personality and attitude towards fighting was meant to contrast Goku's battle loving nature. But he was never described as this battle genius the way Caulifla has been, nor has he ever shown her level of childish enthusiasm.

What rubbish! They are both useless fighters.

FALSE. Gohan is nowhere near a useless fighter. Stop sipping on that haterade

[Cabba]

Goten barely has a character,his main use was to fusion fodder and Trunks sidekick,so i don't think its accurate to say its out of character for him.

You dont need a fleshed out saga dedicated to one character to understand his traits
Goten introduction was that of a Goku like personality, chichi said as much, his personality being similar to goku was reference until the tournament
He was also introduced as kid Goku who likes fights, and was exceedingly good at such short age taking Gohan and Goku by surprise, then all of sudden all this progress went to the trash for plot reasons at EoZ
Part of the reason I'm hoping EoZ gets retcconned or at least written over with future events

Gohan on the other hand... It made perfect sense for him to become a scholar and quit fights this fits 100% with his character

Where did you see that?Or is it that hard for you to see people say anything negative about your favourite character even if its true?

Gohan had more protagonism in the ending of the ToP, he likely has a big fight coming after the nameks. Cauliflas time to shine ends at 114 after she fuses is all about Kefura until she hopefully gets ringed out by Goku

Nah, Goten was Goten. He's little like Goku. Goten is literally a normal child with Saiyan DNA. Goku was freaking martial arts Tarzan. Big difference. Goten has his family which has changed his life from Goku's a lot. When you think about it, his personality at the EoZ makes perfect sensse and is likely what Toriyama planned for him all along.

Nah, Gotens introduction was that of Kid Goku. Chichi said his personality reminded her a lot of Goku, Gohan also commented on this and said indeed he was a lot like his father
Goten shared Gokus carless nature, natural talent in combat and interest in fights, had he continued the path he was in the majin arc, he would have become as strong as Gohan if not more, and not wasted his life away

Goku like qualities? Well, I do recall he liked to eat and looked exactly like his pop with a similar age.

His carlesss nature, and personality both chichi and Gohan commented on this, he reminded them a lot of Goku. You can refuse to accept it all you want, dont change the fact that it was actually stated, so as far as the script goes Goten personality was similar to Gokus

And his character arc revolved around having the bigger potential out of everyone which culminates in the Cell finale. He`s had a character arc. A long one and during a time where Toryama killed Goku twice when the manga was supposed to end.

Thats the thing, he was touted to have a this so called potential for the passing of the torch moment, Akira later realized Gohan was ill suited for the position of main hero and that Goku was the best fit, so now you see Goku being hyped for his potential and prodigy in combat

Whats more, in the cell arc, the big saga for Gohan the moment that siganaled the passing of the torch, hammered yet again the message that Gohan did not like to fight 16 told him to fight so he could defend earh and live in peace so he could become a scholar, so yeah if DBZ ended at Cell, there would never have been anymore villains stronger than cell. Gohan fought for peace and thats it, he had no intention to push himself further going forward

By the time the original Z anime ends, they had to drag his arse to the Bodukai where he loses to his little niece.

And that was a complete travesty which i hope gets retconned, i dont even like Goten that much at his best he doesnt make to my top 5 favorites. i just feel it was out of place and a disservice to his character
He basically became yamcha 2.0

[Meshack]

Caulifla and Gohan are two different characters. First off, Caulifla is a full-blooded Saiyan so her instinct for fighting will be higher than Gohan’s because he’s half Earthling and doesn’t like to fight like his dad.

[Cabba]

Caulifla and Gohan are two different characters. First off, Caulifla is a full-blooded Saiyan so her instinct for fighting will be higher than Gohan’s because he’s half Earthling and doesn’t like to fight like his dad.

In all fairness Cauli doesn't seem all that interested in fights either, she is just power hungry/junky

[Olympian]

His carlesss nature, and personality both chichi and Gohan commented on this, he reminded them a lot of Goku. You can refuse to accept it all you want, dont change the fact that it was actually stated, so as far as the script goes Goten personality was similar to Gokus

I.e, none really of its own.

Thats the thing, he was touted to have a this so called potential for the passing of the torch moment, Akira later realized Gohan was ill suited for the position of main hero and that Goku was the best fit, so now you see Goku being hyped for his potential and prodigy in combat

There was no "this so called potentail": He had it. Every character mentioned it as he was growing up and Goku being written off twice before editors or Toryama himself went back actually shows that so called potential was there and explored throught several arcs.

Whats more, in the cell arc, the big saga for Gohan the moment that siganaled the passing of the torch, hammered yet again the message that Gohan did not like to fight 16 told him to fight so he could defend earh and live in peace so he could become a scholar, so yeah if DBZ ended at Cell, there would never have been anymore villains stronger than cell. Gohan fought for peace and thats it, he had no intention to push himself further going forward

And that is the character arc. See, there`s actually character in it whether fans of his or fans in general ended up liking it or not.

What is Goten`s?

And that was a complete travesty which i hope gets retconned, i dont even like Goten that much at his best he doesnt make to my top 5 favorites. i just feel it was out of place and a disservice to his character
He basically became yamcha 2.0

He became what he was, Goten 1.0. Carefree and little else to write articles about.

[Cabba]

I.e, none really of its own.

Care to elaborate? not sure i follow
it was stated Goten had a personality similar to that of Goku, therefore Goten has a personality similar to Goku. Are you claiming such statement was not explicitly said? You can dislike the execution all you like, doesn't change the fact that Goten was stated to have the same personality as Goku

There was no "this so called potentail": He had it. Every character mentioned it as he was growing up and Goku being written off twice before editors or Toryama himself went back actually shows that so called potential was there and explored throught several arcs.

No, all this reflects is that Gohan was pinned to be Gokus successor, of course the main hero will get all the perks, its only natural for Gohan to be given the special treatment in this case. I'm not sure where you are going with people mentioning, well of course they did mention how else would we know about anything if not for other characters commenting about it thats DBZ 101

Now the story is different, since Goku is the clear main hero he gets all the perks and potential, with numerous characters mentioning it

And that is the character arc. See, there`s actually character in it whether fans of his or fans in general ended up liking it or not.
What is Goten`s?

I'm not arguing execution though, I'm merely pointing out that it made perfect sense for Gohan and his character to leave training/fighting aside to puruse his scholar dream, thats what makes him happy

Goten didnt have near as much screen time as Gohan, its an unfair comparison, you dont need entire sagas to specify the traits of a character
I'm not a big fan of him or his development either, I'm just pointing out that his introduction and participation in the Majin Arc pinned him along with Trunks as great fighters, the next big thing even (which i was never a big fan either way). Goten and Trunks had fun sparring and were exited about meeting strong bad guys, the little we have to go by characterize Goten as a kid with natural interest in martial arts coupled with Gokus carefree attitude

He became what he was, Goten 1.0. Carefree and little else to write articles about.

There is no dancing around this, he became Yamcha, he became a loser a joke
Nothing in which he is good at: no martial arts, no studies no job

[Olympian]

He became a loser a joke
Nothing in which he is good at: no martial arts, no studies no job

Yeah, Goten 1.0. Basically the same he was at a younger age but just grown up. Same interests and everything.

If it ain`t funny it ain`t done.

[Meshack]

Caulifla and Gohan are two different characters. First off, Caulifla is a full-blooded Saiyan so her instinct for fighting will be higher than Gohan’s because he’s half Earthling and doesn’t like to fight like his dad.

In all fairness Cauli doesn't seem all that interested in fights either, she is just power hungry/junky

Becoming more powerful is what a full-blooded Saiyan wants... not a half-blood

[Meshack]

Even though the 6th Universe Saiyans are evolved, thus having more potential than the Saiyans from the 7th Universe, I still think Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Bra, and Pan have more potential than the 6th Universe Saiyans.

[Whatever]

You dont need a fleshed out saga dedicated to one character to understand his traits
Goten introduction was that of a Goku like personality, chichi said as much, his personality being similar to goku was reference until the tournament
He was also introduced as kid Goku who likes fights, and was exceedingly good at such short age taking Gohan and Goku by surprise, then all of sudden all this progress went to the trash for plot reasons at EoZ
Part of the reason I'm hoping EoZ gets retcconned or at least written over with future events

He took Goku and Gohan by surprise but not because of his fighting skills,it was because of his power.
Goten liked to fight but as a sport at the best not like Goku did,heck they did not care about fighting Buu,they were planning to use their fight against Buu as a means to show off.

Gohan had more protagonism in the ending of the ToP, he likely has a big fight coming after the nameks. Cauliflas time to shine ends at 114 after she fuses is all about Kefura until she hopefully gets ringed out by Goku

How do you know Gohan has a big fight?How do you know Caulifla's time to shine will end at 114?You don't but the hints are in Caulifla's favor of her being more important.
And what does the ending song has anything to do with it?Ending 9 came and left and Gohan did not do anything important or major during that period.

[BlueBasilisk]

How do you know Gohan has a big fight?How do you know Caulifla's time to shine will end at 114?You don't but the hints are in Caulifla's favor of her being more important.
And what does the ending song has anything to do with it?Ending 9 came and left and Gohan did not do anything important or major during that period.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to say they're going to be unimportant characters when they've had 8 or 9 episodes of focus this arc either as the central plot or as a significant 'b' plot. Even Cabba's two focus episodes linked back to Caulifla and Kale somehow. Who else has had that much focus?

People were so sure they'd be gone after their appearances in 100 and 101 but the narrative seems to be treating the three Saiyans and to a lesser extent Hit as deuteragonists to the U7 team or at least to Goku rather than enemies.

[BWri]

He became a loser a joke
Nothing in which he is good at: no martial arts, no studies no job

Yeah, Goten 1.0. Basically the same he was at a younger age but just grown up. Same interests and everything.

If it ain`t funny it ain`t done.

Yup. Like I said, he was a normal kid with some Saiyan DNA. Then he became a normal dude with Saiyan DNA. Nothing to see here, really. Toriyama had nothing for him and still doesn't.

**also I'd pay to see a show where Yamcha becomes his mentor (basically his Piccolo) and "trains him" in martial arts. I can imagine Yamcha having Goten get a "mature" woman's number as advanced training.

[namekiansaiyan]

You dont need a fleshed out saga dedicated to one character to understand his traits
Goten introduction was that of a Goku like personality, chichi said as much, his personality being similar to goku was reference until the tournament
He was also introduced as kid Goku who likes fights, and was exceedingly good at such short age taking Gohan and Goku by surprise, then all of sudden all this progress went to the trash for plot reasons at EoZ
Part of the reason I'm hoping EoZ gets retcconned or at least written over with future events

He took Goku and Gohan by surprise but not because of his fighting skills,it was because of his power.
Goten liked to fight but as a sport at the best not like Goku did,heck they did not care about fighting Buu,they were planning to use their fight against Buu as a means to show off.

Gohan had more protagonism in the ending of the ToP, he likely has a big fight coming after the nameks. Cauliflas time to shine ends at 114 after she fuses is all about Kefura until she hopefully gets ringed out by Goku

How do you know Gohan has a big fight?How do you know Caulifla's time to shine will end at 114?You don't but the hints are in Caulifla's favor of her being more important.
And what does the ending song has anything to do with it?Ending 9 came and left and Gohan did not do anything important or major during that period.

Gohan's big fight probably is the Namekians with Piccolo. The fight is being presented the exact same way as the Vegeta vs Toppo fight. They both were presented with a 20 second scene with Vegeta, Piccolo and Gohan struggling. They are now both being ignored

Frieza, 17 and 18 also need a big fight and I think Dyspo, Damom and Gamisaras are being saved for these 3.

[Kinokima]

How do you know Gohan has a big fight?How do you know Caulifla's time to shine will end at 114?You don't but the hints are in Caulifla's favor of her being more important.
And what does the ending song has anything to do with it?Ending 9 came and left and Gohan did not do anything important or major during that period.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to say they're going to be unimportant characters when they've had 8 or 9 episodes of focus this arc either as the central plot or as a significant 'b' plot. Even Cabba's two focus episodes linked back to Caulifla and Kale somehow. Who else has had that much focus?

People were so sure they'd be gone after their appearances in 100 and 101 but the narrative seems to be treating the three Saiyans and to a lesser extent Hit as deuteragonists to the U7 team or at least to Goku rather than enemies.

I think they are important characters in this arc and definitely will be if we get a Planet Sadala arc. But whether they will become main characters and will start replacing old characters well there is absolutely nothing to base that on. At this point I expect at most they will be recurring characters. If they become main characters it will really depend on how mainstay their popularity is.

I mean even if there is a Planet Sadala arc new characters could be introduced that end up being more important than Kale & Caulifla. That is basically what happened with the other Universe 6 characters. Hit, Cabba and Frost were introduced first but then Kale and Caulifla definitely seem to be more important in this arc. Thus it doesn't really mean they are being introduced as main characters.

[BlueBasilisk]

I think they are important characters in this arc and definitely will be if we get a Planet Sadala arc. But whether they will become main characters and will start replacing old characters well there is absolutely nothing to base that on. At this point I expect at most they will be recurring characters. If they become main characters it will really depend on how mainstay their popularity is.

I mean even if there is a Planet Sadala arc new characters could be introduced that end up being more important than Kale & Caulifla. That is basically what happened with the other Universe 6 characters. Hit, Cabba and Frost were introduced first but then Kale and Caulifla definitely seem to be more important in this arc. Thus it doesn't really mean they are being introduced as main characters.

Who said anything about replacing old characters? DB's cast expands with every arc and even semi-retirees like Tien, Yamcha, and Krillin still hang around.

[Kinokima]

I think they are important characters in this arc and definitely will be if we get a Planet Sadala arc. But whether they will become main characters and will start replacing old characters well there is absolutely nothing to base that on. At this point I expect at most they will be recurring characters. If they become main characters it will really depend on how mainstay their popularity is.

I mean even if there is a Planet Sadala arc new characters could be introduced that end up being more important than Kale & Caulifla. That is basically what happened with the other Universe 6 characters. Hit, Cabba and Frost were introduced first but then Kale and Caulifla definitely seem to be more important in this arc. Thus it doesn't really mean they are being introduced as main characters.

Who said anything about replacing old characters? DB's cast expands with every arc and even semi-retirees like Tien, Yamcha, and Krillin still hang around.

I didn't say you specifically did but quite a few people on these boards have said that now that Caulifla, Kale, Cabba have been introduced they will take the place of Goten, Trunks, and now Gohan. That has become a frequent comment. It was the same with people saying Hit or even Freeza would replace Vegeta.

And sure the Dragon Ball casts expands but it is impossible at this point to say how big of a role any character will play in the future just because they play an important part in this arc. So far I can say the only new characters who have truly gained main character status in Super have been Beerus & Whis (and they were introduced in the films).

Heck even Future Trunks who was most definitely a main character in his arc and a fan favorite from having a main role in the Cell saga did not stick around. And Future Trunks I would argue is probably more popular than any of the new characters introduced (at least at this point). That's not to say we won't see him again but you get my point that there is nothing to say any of these characters will permanently become part of the main cast just because they have a large role in the current arc.

[DragonBallFoodie]

As for Gohan not training even he has acknowledged that was wrong. Gohan doesn’t want to be a fighter but he does want to get stronger to protect his family. Character don’t have to be perfect or always make the best decision. But I like that Gohan isn’t Goku’s clone. He’s his own character. And well he fulfilled his wish since he was a little boy of becoming a great Scholar.

I do think Goku works best as the MC but I still love Gohan and he will always have an important place in this world.

Goku has always respected Gohan's scholarly tendencies. He's encouraged him whenever he tries to get stronger because he knows what he's capable of, but apart from with Cell, Goku doesn't force his son to fight, or put him down for being soft the way Vegeta, or even Piccolo do.

I'm sure Goku enjoys having Caulifla around as a little mini-me to train, but that isn't going to reflect worse on Gohan in his eyes, because he's not judgmental like that. Besides, Gohan's been on a roll lately. He's gotten stronger than ever, he did his best to take charge of the Universe 7 team, lost cause though it may be. He even gave Goku a good fight in Blue in episode 90, while Goku's still going through Baby's First forms with Caulifla. Gohan may come out of the arc looking better, we'll see.

I hope so.

You would have thought he learned his lesson after losing his power God knows how many times and getting back to training again after getting his face pushed in by the villain of the month. This isn't even an argument at this point, he's just reckless and irresponsible. Plenty of people in real life can keep a full-time job, have a family and still have time to go to the gym to keep in shape. Gohan doesn't need to get stronger, he just needs to keep his strength, which shouldn't be something very hard to do. Some people don't realize that Gohan can train without having his life revolve around training.

There is this. No need for Gohan to utterly slack and wet, he can keep training and keep himself strong enough for a Z-Fighter.

[Olympian]

He became a loser a joke
Nothing in which he is good at: no martial arts, no studies no job

Yeah, Goten 1.0. Basically the same he was at a younger age but just grown up. Same interests and everything.

If it ain`t funny it ain`t done.

Yup. Like I said, he was a normal kid with some Saiyan DNA. Then he became a normal dude with Saiyan DNA. Nothing to see here, really. Toriyama had nothing for him and still doesn't.

**also I'd pay to see a show where Yamcha becomes his mentor (basically his Piccolo) and "trains him" in martial arts. I can imagine Yamcha having Goten get a "mature" woman's number as advanced training.

I got that vibe from "Goku and Friends" actually, when Gotenks uses both the Volleyball special and the Wolf Fanf Fist. Makes sense the older guys to train the younger ones but as you also seen in that movie the kids are constantly lectured in taking things serious. True enough, what happens when things got serious and people could be killed?

Enter the older Main cast.

But sure, lets compare Goten with Yamcha. Guy started out an orphan surviving in Diablo desert to become a proeminent Bandit, to fight the main character to save Earth by stopping Oozaru and become his oldest ally to become officially a student of the strongest Martial Arts sensei of the world and become a proeminent Martial Artist himself to train with masters even stronger than Roshi to become one of Earth`s main defenders to face androids and other crazy bullshit to become a proeminent world sports athlete to date the smartest and wealthiest person on the planet to getting a new girlfriend right afterwards to fight Outworld tournamments ("Anime counts" - Toryama) to win a universal level Baseball match while everyone was covering their hides behind Whiz`s shield.

Goten and Trunks were just given things to fly off and their fight with Buu didn`t really made for great character growth. Years later they`re still about the same...and here we are.

[Cabba]

He became a loser a joke
Nothing in which he is good at: no martial arts, no studies no job

Yeah, Goten 1.0. Basically the same he was at a younger age but just grown up. Same interests and everything.

If it ain`t funny it ain`t done.

Thats being purposefully disingenuous, since Goten had special interest in martial arts, contantly sparred with Trunks, got stronger training with Gohan and was considered a prodigy for his age
Hopefully DBS will get pass this and retcon this

[HeroR]

Well, 114 did no favors for Gohan since even Cali, who was more or less called a street fighter in 113, countered IT and she was more even against Goku then Gohan was against the guy from U2 given what true form Freeza did to him.