Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

So Kefla's Super Saiyan in the NEP. Is that supposed to be ordinary Super Saiyan or the True Legendary Super Saiyan? Because one would be 50 times stronger and the other hundreds of times stronger.

[SansrivaaL]

So Kefla's Super Saiyan in the NEP. Is that supposed to be ordinary Super Saiyan or the True Legendary Super Saiyan? Because one would be 50 times stronger and the other hundreds of times stronger.

Probably legendary, her hair's green in the prev.

[AvatarReiko]

So Kafla is too strong for even SSJBkkx20 and Goku needs UI? Wow, Toei. Just...wow

[SansrivaaL]

So Kafla is too strong for even SSJBkkx20 and Goku needs UI? Wow, Toei. Just...wow

Eh its not that bad for me, Goku's tired, the show makes it out to be Goku pushing his body to its limits, its like everytime he gets the smallest gas he forces it to run.

[dbzfan7]

Oh, may the Lord have mercy on our souls for we are not ready.

Ultra Instinct tier coming soon.

FUCKING HELL I CALLED IT. Dammit I WAS JOKING FUCK! I'm so sorry Doctor.....I jinxed it.

[SansrivaaL]

Oh, may the Lord have mercy on our souls for we are not ready.

Ultra Instinct tier coming soon.

FUCKING HELL I CALLED IT. Dammit I WAS JOKING FUCK!

But she isnt, she's angel tier.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So Kafla is too strong for even SSJBkkx20 and Goku needs UI? Wow, Toei. Just...wow

The math works out fine, really.

With Kefla's base form being more than a match for SSG Goku, a mere 50 times boost from SS would be more than enough to trounce even SSB/KKx20, assuming SSB is minimally twice as strong as SSG. The same can be said of a current SS Vegito, because the god forms don't give completely untouchable boosts anymore.

A Potara Fusion between such powerful and compatible beings is a something to behold, after all.

[pacz360]

So where does everyone put kefla in comparison to vegito
Is base kefla > ssjg then what FT ARC vegito
Spoilers impiled UI goku is dodging all of her attacks with ease
How strong you guys thing kefla compares to him

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So where does everyone put kefla in comparison to vegito
Is base kefla > ssjg then what FT ARC vegito
Spoilers impiled UI goku is dodging all of her attacks with ease
How strong you guys thing kefla compares to him

Although the line directly comparing Vegito to Beerus was from the manga, my thoughts on the numerical scaling would neatly place SSB Vegito around the level of most Hakaishin and in turn Jiren.

Which means that, without a form equivalent to SSB, Kefla won't be able to compete with Vegito's full power, as little as it may last. As well, the Ultra Instinct removes thinking from the equation entirely, meaning the body can react INSTANTLY. Coupled with Goku breaking the shell of his potential, and I think that, as long as his energy holds out, Goku will be able to handle things quite easily.

[Saturnine]

I haven't put much thought into that "in-between" solution - making base Goku and Vegeta stronger than SSj3 Gotenks, but not much stronger beyond that. Sounds like it could work, but there are some things that bother me with that, particularly the issue of Frost needing to be weaker than Freeza and Future Trunks becoming as powerful as he did through just training. Buuccolo level was already an unbelievable leap from Buu arc SSj2 level - accepting that Trunks got to that level in base just because of his training is a bit difficult to accept.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I haven't put much thought into that "in-between" solution - making base Goku and Vegeta stronger than SSj3 Gotenks, but not much stronger beyond that. Sounds like it could work, but there are some things that bother me with that, particularly the issue of Frost needing to be weaker than Freeza and Future Trunks becoming as powerful as he did through just training. Buuccolo level was already an unbelievable leap from Buu arc SSj2 level - accepting that Trunks got to that level in base just because of his training is a bit difficult to accept.

I understand why that would be the case for people.

I've never been one to get worked up over this kind of issue, so I personally can't empathize with this situation. I do understand where you and others are coming from. Even in the manga, the base Saiyans are still extraordinarily powerful according to the latest chapter.

Pure Buu's reincarnation, Uub, is on the horizon, and I believe that the Three Ts (Toriyama, Toyotaro, Toei) recognize that Goku needs to be really strong in order to face him in base form in just a few years. Of course, this comes with adjusting everyone else's level accordingly, and sometimes we get stuff like the issues you've brought up.

[Lord Beerus]

Concerning Kafla's strength:

Kafla's strength in her base form is far from a big issue for me. Kale and Caulifla at this stage could finger flick anyone in Z. They're fucking beats in the strength department when you take into consideration that the main cast are far stronger than their Majin Boo arc counterparts. I mean, the show pretty much tells us that the likes of Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Freeza are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. And that's only in the half point of the show. And even more insane, in regards to Goku and Vegeta specifically, that's how strong they are in their base forms.

A lot of shit has happened since SSJ3 Goku fought Beerus on King Kai's planet, that I'm honestly really surprised that people still put SSJ Vegetto in the Majin Boo arc on such a pedestal when he's really nothing compared to what we've seen in Super so far. The top tier characters in Super are dozens upon dozens of time stronger than anything we see in Z.

Plus, the Potara is stupidly powerful in how much of boost it gives the fused user. I really don't see Base Kale being at least on par with a weakened SSJG Goku that much of an issue.

And considering Kalfa in her base form is as strong as a weakened SSJG Goku, and she could potentially become 50, 100 or 400 times stronger than that, her becoming powerful enough to force Goku to use Ultra Instinct is far from a stretch.

While there have certainly been quite a few radical jumps in power, they're far from a major issue considering how much the narrative in Super has expanded since Battle Of Gods, and consequently, the ceiling of power continues to rise.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I mean, the show pretty much tells us that the likes of Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Freeza are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.

I don't buy it. That moment has never sat well with me and various things have stepped in to (confusingly) contradict it since then, so I don't personlly take it as something legitimate that was planned. Seems more like a case of stupid, careless writing that has since been overwritten by other stupid, careless writing... which seems to decribe DBS in general.

But, that's just me.

[Lord Beerus]

I mean, the show pretty much tells us that the likes of Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Freeza are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.

I don't buy it. That moment has never sat well with me and various things have stepped in to (confusingly) contradict it since then, so I don't personlly take it as something legitimate that was planned. Seems more like a case of stupid, careless writing that has since been overwritten by other stupid, careless writing... which seems to decribe DBS in general.

But, that's just me.

Nothing so far has really contradicted the idea of Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Freeza being far stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. It may see a bit of big pill to swallow, but when you take into consideration that Goku, Vegeta and Freeza became monstrously more powerful once the events of Resurrection F kicked off (and in Goku and Vegeta's case continued to grow much stronger), along with the implication that Gohan and Piccolo, and especially more-so Piccolo, became incredible power through off-screen training (which we see and early glimpse of in Episode 30), it's not that hard to buy. It's may seem like a radical jump in strength, but, hey, Dragon Ball frequently plays it fast and loose with strength gains, so it's far from major misdemeanor for my perspective.

[Hugo Boss]

I mean, the show pretty much tells us that the likes of Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Freeza are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.

I don't buy it. That moment has never sat well with me and various things have stepped in to (confusingly) contradict it since then, so I don't personlly take it as something legitimate that was planned. Seems more like a case of stupid, careless writing that has since been overwritten by other stupid, careless writing... which seems to decribe DBS in general.

But, that's just me.

I have this difficulty as well. In the same fight Goku can make a fool of a SS2 without transforming, then they begin fighting equally in the same form, then Goku is ahead again, then she catchs up to Goku again.

My personal headcannon is that they wanted to portray Gotenks as an amateur, while Goku and Vegeta as veterans, so it would matter in which form they fight.

[PushoverMediaCritic]

Far as i'm concerned, the new spoilers almost confirm my theory that Kafla has some kind of True Love Boost which is way stronger than Vegetto's Rival Boost, which is why she's so much stronger than him in the same forms. She's going to be outperforming Blue Vegetto in Super Saiyan 3, at most, despite both of her halves being slightly weaker than both of Vegetto's halves.

[ekrolo2]

As long as Freeza gets to eliminate some more U6 scum, specifically Kefla or her components, all will be well.

[brett wheeler]

So based on new spoilers UI is most definetly stronger than kafla, witch in my opinion makes me feel better about this all, also I'm just assuming that kafla got a different boost due to kale's latent berserk, and califla's infinite potential, that's why she beat the hell out of ssg and ssb goku ( but even with this boost she is no where near the level of UI goku )

[ChiefWamsutta]

Far as i'm concerned, the new spoilers almost confirm my theory that Kafla has some kind of True Love Boost which is way stronger than Vegetto's Rival Boost, which is why she's so much stronger than him in the same forms. She's going to be outperforming Blue Vegetto in Super Saiyan 3, at most, despite both of her halves being slightly weaker than both of Vegetto's halves.

The rival boost isn't really a thing. It was just a poorly understood concept. Basically, Old Kai meant that Goku and Vegeta constantly trying to one-up each other and be the stronger Saiyan pushed each other to new heights. This rivalry and pushing each other to the limit caused such a high power level and, thus, Vegito was so strong.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Here is my attempt at a list of the 50 most powerful DBS characters in order. I'm taking both the anime and manga into account, but a lot of it is guesswork.

1. Zeno/Future Zeno (tie)
2. Zarama
3. Super Shenron
4. Daishinkan
5. Infinite Zamasu
6-17: The angels (unsure about the order, but I put Vados above Whis and I put Campari last)
18: Quitela
19: Beerus
20: Geene
21: Arak
22: Liquir
23: Rumsshi
24: Jiren
25: Ivan
26: SSJB Vegeto
27: Merged Zamasu
28: Belmod
29: Helles
30: Champa
31: Ultra Instinct Omen Goku
32: Mosco
33: Hit
34: Sidra
35: Golden Freeza (mastered form)
36: Toppo
37: Kafla
38: SSJB Vegeta
39: SSJR Goku Black
40: SSJI Future Trunks
41: Future Zamasu
42: Copy Vegeta
43: Berserk Kale
44: Bergamo
45: Ribrianne
46: Dyspo
47: Android 17
48: Ultimate Gohan
49: Skinny Buu
50: Roided Basil