Namz wrote:Jiren does have a personality in the anime. It's just it's boring and extra-clicheable. In fact it's the same boring as Hit in the anime, too calm and mysterious.
I was sure all along Jiren would actually be cool in the manga.
Hits wasn't this bad as he seemed to express genuine appreciation for Goku as an opponent.
Jiren in the anime will do that anyways. Just wait until Goku masters Ultra Instict (which apparently could be next episode)
Ok... I will wait for it and see if actually will do that or you're just hoping he will.
He hasn't given a crap about anything Goku has done thus far, including go UI.
We have one page of Jiren and people once more are assuming way too much with limited - very limited - information. Usually it's to criticize the manga, a change of pace as people just want to throw shots at the anime this time.
It's like with Toppo last chapter, a few lines and people concluded he's another "generic Toyotarõ" character. Let's wait until we have more substance to start evaluating characters.
Noah wrote:Man, this looks awful... Bra shouldn't be that big also why always the same onion hair for babies?
Yeah, Bra is the ugliest baby in Dragon Ball now, surpassing even Dragon Ball Minus' Goku while in incubator.
Oh, and she just came out of Bulma while wearing diaper.
OR
Whis put her in a diaper.
HeroR wrote:
Except since space is a vacuum with no air, you really can't talk. As I said, this is one of the few laws of physics that Dragon Ball has actually followed.
This seems like an insane argument to make. If physics mattered in dragonball, the way these characters fly would be impractical, among many other things.
This is a manga for 12 year olds. Most adults don't understand how things work in space. I don't expect Toriyama and Toyotaro to take an astro physics course before they start writing a manga.
Hmmm... if Jiren is more Superman like in personality then maybe Goku will appear as more of a villian type in the manga. That would be cool. Like Goku is the villian who Jiren overpowers in the name of justice and then Goku (villian) comes back more powerful than ever in a dark villainous form.
BlueVegerot wrote:Toriyama : Jiren is the strongest guy in the tournament and goku's biggest obstacle
Toei : lets only show him for 5 seconds before the tournament meditating and looking on the horizon while we spend countless episodes on 2 Saiyan girls who don't need it.
Toyo: Let me try to show off his personality and his motivation
Fixed.
Has anything else leaked ? the chapter is 45 pages and so far we've just seen 2-5.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
LightBing wrote:We have one page of Jiren and people once more are assuming way too much with limited
It's because in only one page he has more personality than in the entire anime so far.
How so?
He cares about people something Anime Jiren lacks. That's it, he's a clean slate besides that. Anime Jiren is stoic, has some unknown desire and looks down on people. That's not a lot but it's much more than Manga Jiren. Which I have to repeat uttered only two sentences.
BlueVegerot wrote:Toriyama : Jiren is the strongest guy in the tournament and goku's biggest obstacle
Toei : lets only show him for 5 seconds before the tournament meditating and looking on the horizon while we spend countless episodes on 2 Saiyan girls who don't need it.
Toyo: Let me try to show off his personality and his motivation
Fixed.
Has anything else leaked ? the chapter is 45 pages and so far we've just seen 2-5.
Could not agree more(especially the bold one)
Why power levels are important?
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
So people are jumping to baseless conclusions with only a few pages of the newest chapter leaked?
Business as usual I guess.
I will say that Toyotaro's design of Jien is fine and how Bra was born and how she looks is acceptable.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:So people are jumping to baseless conclusions with only a few pages of the newest chapter leaked?
Business as usual I guess.
I will say that Toyotaro's design of Jien is fine and how Bra was born and how she looks is acceptable.
What did you expect
Why power levels are important?
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
LightBing wrote:We have one page of Jiren and people once more are assuming way too much with limited
It's because in only one page he has more personality than in the entire anime so far.
How so?
He cares about people something Anime Jiren lacks. That's it, he's a clean slate besides that. Anime Jiren is stoic, has some unknown desire and looks down on people. That's not a lot but it's much more than Manga Jiren. Which I have to repeat uttered only two sentences.
To be fair manga Jiren seems to be much more expressive even in the few panels we have seen him in and without context. Visually his physical mannerisms and expressions have more personality.
Anime version seems to have welded Jiren's tiny head to his massive neck.
Manga version has managed to turn, swivel, and turn his head in just a few panels.
Last edited by TheMikado on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Noah wrote:Man, this looks awful... Bra shouldn't be that big also why always the same onion hair for babies?
Yeah, Bra is the ugliest baby in Dragon Ball now, surpassing even Dragon Ball Minus' Goku while in incubator.
Oh, and she just came out of Bulma while wearing diaper.
OR
Whis put her in a diaper.
HeroR wrote:
Except since space is a vacuum with no air, you really can't talk. As I said, this is one of the few laws of physics that Dragon Ball has actually followed.
This seems like an insane argument to make. If physics mattered in dragonball, the way these characters fly would be impractical, among many other things.
This is a manga for 12 year olds. Most adults don't understand how things work in space. I don't expect Toriyama and Toyotaro to take an astro physics course before they start writing a manga.
Sheesh.
Breathing in space was never mentioned in the original manga. Oxygen was a dub line. Toriyama is saying and showing that these beings can be in space without having to breathe. He even said that the battle with Gokuh and Beerus is in the stratosphere and since there was a little air, Gokuh could breathe. Beerus, the other Hakaishin, Angels, Freeza, Cell, Majin-Boo, and others that I am not thinking of right now can survive in space. Gokuh cannot survive in space. He needs air to breathe but space does not have air. Vegeta died in Resurrection F because he is not a god. Vegeta needs air to breathe. Being able to survive in space has nothing to do with being able to breathing. You really don’t need physics for fictional beings that can work in anyway as the author sees.
How does physics apply to using ki to push yourself up?
Namz wrote:
It's because in only one page he has more personality than in the entire anime so far.
How so?
He cares about people something Anime Jiren lacks. That's it, he's a clean slate besides that. Anime Jiren is stoic, has some unknown desire and looks down on people. That's not a lot but it's much more than Manga Jiren. Which I have to repeat uttered only two sentences.
To be fair manga Jiren seems to be much more expressive even in the few panels we have seen him in and without context. Visually his physical mannerisms and expressions have more personality.
Anime version seems to have welded Jiren's tiny head to his massive neck.
Manga version has managed to turn, swivel, and turn his head in just a few panels.
It’s probably because he doesn’t have eyebrows and his eyes are shaped weird to where he looks the same
Namz wrote:
It's because in only one page he has more personality than in the entire anime so far.
How so?
He cares about people something Anime Jiren lacks. That's it, he's a clean slate besides that. Anime Jiren is stoic, has some unknown desire and looks down on people. That's not a lot but it's much more than Manga Jiren. Which I have to repeat uttered only two sentences.
To be fair manga Jiren seems to be much more expressive even in the few panels we have seen him in and without context. Visually his physical mannerisms and expressions have more personality.
Anime version seems to have welded Jiren's tiny head to his massive neck.
Manga version has managed to turn, swivel, and turn his head in just a few panels.
You're cherry picking. Jiren has been visually expressive in the anime when the time calls for it.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
LightBing wrote:
How so?
He cares about people something Anime Jiren lacks. That's it, he's a clean slate besides that. Anime Jiren is stoic, has some unknown desire and looks down on people. That's not a lot but it's much more than Manga Jiren. Which I have to repeat uttered only two sentences.
To be fair manga Jiren seems to be much more expressive even in the few panels we have seen him in and without context. Visually his physical mannerisms and expressions have more personality.
Anime version seems to have welded Jiren's tiny head to his massive neck.
Manga version has managed to turn, swivel, and turn his head in just a few panels.
You're cherry picking. Jiren has been visually expressive in the anime when the time calls for it.
No that's kind of my point. Even in casual equivalent situations Jiren is more expressive. I used equally casual situations to compare the emoting . I wouldn't use a "rage" shot to compare him just relaxing as evidence.
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