Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by mAcChaos » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:51 am

TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:Said this in another thread, but based on today's episode, is continued usage of Ultra Instinct actually making Goku stronger each time? After the first time, Goku was totally out of it, needed Freeza to give him some energy and it took him awhile to muster up even the Super Saiyan transformation. After the second usage, he can now use SSB KK in short spurts. Whis kind of alluded to this in the episode ("Exposure to repeated extreme conditions can lead to acclimation. The bar may be getting raised on his opportunity to break his own shell.") Or maybe this alludes to Toriyama's interview about Goku mastering his normal state (UI) and thus sapping less strength/stamina?
I think Whis meant that the more Goku pushes himself to learn UI, he gets used to the extreme conditions, so the next time the condition has to be even more extreme to make him so pushed that UI comes out. Like when you get used to lifting weights and need to increase the load. So here he was deliberately using Blue and other things to try and push himself again.

Also Universe 2 had annoyed me the entire tournament, but I actually liked how they were sent off this episode. Same with 6.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by King Jacku » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:52 am

Artorias wrote:
King Jacku wrote:I was really looking forward to this episode as Gohan and Piccolo are my favourite characters, and man was I severely disappointed. All I wanted was a good fight for those 2, but nope, reused animation galore, bad fight choreography, and just not enough focus on them overall.

It's stuff like this that makes me pretty envious of Goku fans, he gets 3-4 episodes of superb animation and art while we get this. *Sigh*
If you didn't think the animation in this episode, or at least the second half, was great, then I don't know what to tell you. Your expectations are out of whack if this didn't do it for you. This was great stuff.
Except I've pretty much loved every EP so far in the ToP, so no my expectations are fine. It'd be great if Piccolo and Gohan got anything near to what Goku gets, choreography/animation wise. They didn't.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by BlueVegerot » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:59 am

I will say the needless shoehorning of goku into every episode is getting ridiculous. They keep telling us he has stamina issues but every episode the fucker goes up to his highest power. Is toei really that worried that a couple episodes without goku doing shit will cause super to get cancelled or something?

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:04 am

BlueVegerot wrote:I will say the needless shoehorning of goku into every episode is getting ridiculous. They keep telling us he has stamina issues but every episode the fucker goes up to his highest power. Is toei really that worried that a couple episodes without goku doing shit will cause super to get cancelled or something?
He definitely needs a break, but I don't see how they've been shoehorning him in every episode. I don't even think he felt shoehorned in this episode, especially since this episode felt more like an ensemble episode than one specifically focusing on one set of individuals.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by avasatu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:04 am

Series, if not franchise high point, for sure.

It wasn't perfect in any regard, but it was excellent in most, and really hit me good in the feels.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by precita » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:07 am

Jigurashi wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:I will say the needless shoehorning of goku into every episode is getting ridiculous. They keep telling us he has stamina issues but every episode the fucker goes up to his highest power. Is toei really that worried that a couple episodes without goku doing shit will cause super to get cancelled or something?
He definitely needs a break, but I don't see how they've been shoehorning him in every episode. I don't even think he felt shoehorned in this episode, especially since this episode felt more like an ensemble episode than one specifically focusing on one set of individuals.
Goku's definitely gotten way too much focus in the tournament, I'm pretty sure he appears in almost every episode. DBZ was able to leave Goku doing nothing or out of the action for long periods of time, it's like Super thinks Goku must be on-screen doing something in every single episode.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by BlueVegerot » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:07 am

Jigurashi wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:I will say the needless shoehorning of goku into every episode is getting ridiculous. They keep telling us he has stamina issues but every episode the fucker goes up to his highest power. Is toei really that worried that a couple episodes without goku doing shit will cause super to get cancelled or something?
He definitely needs a break, but I don't see how they've been shoehorning him in every episode. I don't even think he felt shoehorned in this episode, especially since this episode felt more like an ensemble episode than one specifically focusing on one set of individuals.
They definitely shoehorned him into this episode. he couldn't even walk properly in episode 117 and now he's going blue with possibly kaioken and beating 3 u2 warriors. we had the androids who have 0 stamina issues who could have finished the episode, even freeza would have been way better but nope have to have goku be the main focus again

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by BWri » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:22 am

Really awesome episode. I was a little bummed that Piccolo didn't get a crazy powerup like fusing with the Nameks or gaining that buffed regen, but in the end I preferred the bit of character development he got here over all that. The cross kamehameha was a blast to see and so was all the crazy U2 transformation shenanigans. This ep probably should've been a dud, but the writing was so on point that it was elevated. Loved the dire atmosphere of the 2 universes struggling to survive and how they both used desperate and miraculous powers to try to beat U7. As goofy as it was, I don't think U2 has ever looked cooler. I liked all the little character moments too. Vegeta, Beerus, Piccolo, and Gohan all had some solid moments here. Loved the Nail and Kami cameo.

That's the one thing I can really appreciate, how every character shown was used effectively.
Kanassa wrote:I enjoy how different the Universe's destruction's are handled. 9 goes out desperate, pleading and begging for some sort of hope to cling too. 10s is a somber erasure, after a brief glimmer of optimism they grow alone with regret and silently accept their fate. 2 go out spreading their love to their universe, content. And universe 6 goes out with a bit of fond reflection, they did all that they could, and they're okay with that; with even Champa making sure to go out having one last sibling moment with Beerus.
Nice assessment there. I do like that the universes stayed in character even while getting erased.
Xeogran wrote:NOBODY EXPECTED THE TRANSFORMATIONS :lol:

Genius. Seriously, I have no words left.
Yeah, 100% pure genius and it had no right to be as awesome as it was. Seriously, a black hearted black hole beam!?!?!? That is supremely awesome!
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:34 am

So confused at the amount of people saying this was one of the best episodes in the entire series :crazy:

This episode was really mediocre. The Namekians felt like complete fodder, and the whole thing about them absorbing every Namekian resulted in absolutely nothing. I couldn't wait to see the Universe 2 fight be over already, I have absolutely had enough of the love shit. It doesn't matter which character is yelling about it, it's just annoying as hell. Why do they continually make a point to tell us Goku is out of stamina and then show that he's not out of stamina at all? Why and how can he go Blue, and be strong enough to destroy a black hole? Come on already, this is the perfect opportunity to stop giving us Goku every episode. Just let him sit out for one or two, like holy shit TOEI it's not going to kill you.

Wasn't this episode hyped up like hell as in the animation was gonna be really good? Wow, talk about overhyped. Can't even think of one scene that stood out. The Universe 6 erasure moment was not what I was expecting at all. A lot of lightheartedness, and they prove once again that they have no idea what the hell they're doing with Champa's character. Beerus' reaction was "say something". Is he talking to himself, or was he pissed off that Champa didn't even say anything?

But I will say the parts with the Namekians and the army of fused Namekians behind them was pretty cool and creepy. What was even creepier though was Kami and Nail, especially Kami. Those black holes in his eyes, damn that's dark looking. Although, what was the point of showing Nail and Kami anyway? All Kami did was point to Gohan. Okay??

All in all I was severely disappointed and I really have no idea what the point was of saving the Namekians for last. I called it last week too, that TOEI would fuck it up and reduce them to complete fodder and whaddya know, they did it. I see a lot of people praising the writing in this episode and how it gave them the feels but I guess I must be some sort of emotionless zombie because I felt nothing for U2 or U6, and I was expecting to get pretty emotional at U6 being erased. Otherwise the writing was good, but nothing stand-out extraordinary. I guess by Super's standards it must be incredible writing though.

NEP looks interesting, seems that Gohan and Piccolo are going to have to fight the characters they ringed out. Someone from U7 needs to get erased already.

I guess I'm going to have to rewatch this one because think I am more confused about the reaction to this episode than any other episode in the series as to how my opinion differs from everyone elses.
Last edited by Asura on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Tatus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:42 am

What an episode!

I absolutely love the part where Gohan blocked the attack from hitting Piccolo. I thought he may of been eliminated for a second. Having Nail and Kami directing him back to the fight was a nice touch, but damn! Having Gohan standing there saving him like Piccolo had done so many times before was beautiful!

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:44 am

Asura wrote:NEP looks interesting, seems that Gohan and Piccolo are going to have to fight the characters they ringed out. Someone from U7 needs to get erased already.
Lemme guess? The prince of no one, Vegeta?

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Tatus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:45 am

precita wrote:
Jigurashi wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:I will say the needless shoehorning of goku into every episode is getting ridiculous. They keep telling us he has stamina issues but every episode the fucker goes up to his highest power. Is toei really that worried that a couple episodes without goku doing shit will cause super to get cancelled or something?
He definitely needs a break, but I don't see how they've been shoehorning him in every episode. I don't even think he felt shoehorned in this episode, especially since this episode felt more like an ensemble episode than one specifically focusing on one set of individuals.
Goku's definitely gotten way too much focus in the tournament, I'm pretty sure he appears in almost every episode. DBZ was able to leave Goku doing nothing or out of the action for long periods of time, it's like Super thinks Goku must be on-screen doing something in every single episode.

I can understand the focus being on Goku. He was the one who wanted the tournament, and basically every person from every universe wants to eliminate him.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by BWri » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:47 am

The_Destroyer wrote:Best of episode of the arc by far. Had everything: Action,Drama, and Comedy. Made me laugh, hyped, and cry(kinda).

It seems like when you utilize opponents and well and don't make the show a sayain snoozefest, the episode will be enjoyable.
Yeah. That's the most surprising thing about this arc in all honesty. They have all these cool toys (ideas, characters, and powers) in the toybox and yet they rarely use them, opting to use the same (saiyan) toys over and over again. We see in eps like this one and the two with Roshi that simply treating characters with an once of respect and interest can do wonders to make it feel impactful, meaningful. Imagine if Tien got the same treatment or Gohan and Piccolo got this treatment much earlier. This arc would legitimately be the best in the franchise, but instead it often goes back to mistreating everyone who's not Goku. Damn the inconsistency, but I will forever love episodes like this one.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by BlueVegerot » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:49 am

Tatus wrote:
precita wrote:
Jigurashi wrote: He definitely needs a break, but I don't see how they've been shoehorning him in every episode. I don't even think he felt shoehorned in this episode, especially since this episode felt more like an ensemble episode than one specifically focusing on one set of individuals.
Goku's definitely gotten way too much focus in the tournament, I'm pretty sure he appears in almost every episode. DBZ was able to leave Goku doing nothing or out of the action for long periods of time, it's like Super thinks Goku must be on-screen doing something in every single episode.

I can understand the focus being on Goku. He was the one who wanted the tournament, and basically every person from every universe wants to eliminate him.
and he has teammates who are willing to help him out ie androids. On one hand saying goku is tired and has no stamina 50 million times and then showing him going ssb to beat 3 fighters the androids could take is shoehorning. goku sitting out a couple episodes isn't gonna doom the show

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Kaiosama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:51 am

Great episode overall. Looking like a U7 elimination next week. I'm hoping for Vegeta, but that's probably not happening.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by puar » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:51 am

see this is what I'm talking about when i say this arc dont know how to handle charecters

whats the point of making zarbuto a tuffle if you arnt gonna even adress it. whats the point of making diffrent charecters if your gonna dress them and make them act exectly like the trio of love. why destroy such a cool design like zarlion had?

and the U6 namekians. they bearly got screen time and were generic as fuck. and now they are gone. why the hell have they waited so much time to intreduce them just to get rid of them so quiclkly? i swear the pacing in this arc is godamm terrible.

this was yet another terrible episode that i aint gonna watch again. the arc was ruined after the jiren special. and vegeta still aint got his own episode

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:51 am

BlueVegerot wrote:
Jigurashi wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:I will say the needless shoehorning of goku into every episode is getting ridiculous. They keep telling us he has stamina issues but every episode the fucker goes up to his highest power. Is toei really that worried that a couple episodes without goku doing shit will cause super to get cancelled or something?
He definitely needs a break, but I don't see how they've been shoehorning him in every episode. I don't even think he felt shoehorned in this episode, especially since this episode felt more like an ensemble episode than one specifically focusing on one set of individuals.
They definitely shoehorned him into this episode. he couldn't even walk properly in episode 117 and now he's going blue with possibly kaioken and beating 3 u2 warriors. we had the androids who have 0 stamina issues who could have finished the episode, even freeza would have been way better but nope have to have goku be the main focus again
What main focus? You mean with the U2 fodder characters? Those androids showed up after Goku was already fighting these three fairly well. I don't see how he was anymore "shoehorned" than any other character this episode. This episode wasn't even focusing on one set of individuals as I said. It was an ensemble episode. Even then, I hardly see how Goku fighting these U2 dudes is shoehorned when they approached him first and were already fighting him. With that said, I could do without Goku eliminating them.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:53 am

BlueVegerot wrote:I will say the needless shoehorning of goku into every episode is getting ridiculous. They keep telling us he has stamina issues but every episode the fucker goes up to his highest power. Is toei really that worried that a couple episodes without goku doing shit will cause super to get cancelled or something?
I don't see how he was shoehorn here since these people were attacking him and they were holding him at by just last episode. Them suddenly leaving Goku alone would have been odd.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:55 am

Jigurashi wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:
Jigurashi wrote: He definitely needs a break, but I don't see how they've been shoehorning him in every episode. I don't even think he felt shoehorned in this episode, especially since this episode felt more like an ensemble episode than one specifically focusing on one set of individuals.
They definitely shoehorned him into this episode. he couldn't even walk properly in episode 117 and now he's going blue with possibly kaioken and beating 3 u2 warriors. we had the androids who have 0 stamina issues who could have finished the episode, even freeza would have been way better but nope have to have goku be the main focus again
What main focus? You mean with the U2 fodder characters? Those androids showed up after Goku was already fighting these three fairly well. I don't see how he was anymore "shoehorned" than any other character this episode. This episode wasn't even focusing on one set of individuals as I said. It was an ensemble episode. Even then, I hardly see how Goku fighting these U2 dudes is shoehorned when they approached him first and were already fighting him. With that said, I could do without Goku eliminating them.
Why was Goku even in this episode at all? I mean, he could have sat out once the androids arrived. He was given more screentime and importance than the androids during the fight with U2. This is the second time he's lost all of his stamina, so why is he still the main star in eliminating U2, and why is he still going Blue? They keep telling us he's out of stamina, but showing means more than telling, and they keep showing us the exact opposite.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by BWri » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:56 am

Xeogran wrote:
Freeza9000 wrote:It appears that in the NEP one of those U4 fighters are capable of creating illusions of the previous opponents from different universes.
That's Shantsa's doing. His ability is cool as heck :thumbup:
I knew there was something up with this little badass. He's going to be problematic.
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