"40 Ton weights max"

[Perfectionist-Cell]

i must have imagined Android 18 ki blast getting sucked up by the attack then.....

Not too mention the arena is made out of the one of the most durable things in the multiverse.

the arena is durable than anything in our universe,Goku comments that the greavity is intense so i have no idea where you are getting it's less gravity than the arena lmao.Whis mentions that the attack is focused into a point to create a mass of gravity,the attacks was called a cage of love that even light can't escape.The attack is called pretty black hole how much more obvious can it get

A black hole is literally defined as a region of space with such a strong gravitational pull that not even light can escape it which what was stated in the episode.I'm not going to argue what is on screen because it doesn't apply exaclt to our real life physics

What does a Ki blast sucked up by it after heading in its direction prove? Cell's kamehameha was sucked by by Gohan's kamehameha too after colliding with it, Ki techniques can totally consume other techniques.
Being made of the most durable substance doesn't mean much if ordinary Ki blasts from fighters with widely varying power levels can fragment or shatter several sections of the arena, the sun withstood a 10x kamehameha from SSJ4 Goku(who according to DB Xenoverse, is close to or on par with the SSJG tier of power) so the arena isn't nearly as durable as stellar objects. The core of a star makes Kachi Katchin look like crumbling sand.
The gravity would be intense for sure but Goku's only ever trained in 100g, that leaves a vary wide range of gravity between a machine that can simulate the gravity of a large planet vs that of a dwarf star. The sun can pull with over a hundred thousand times gravity than the Earth, that's over 10,000x greater gravity that what Goku has trained with. I doubt Goku can even move freely in 1,000x Earth's gravity without having trained in it.
I can get the gravity of the arena being greater than the 'black hole' because the arena was neither displaced or spaghettified in the process, a true black hole would cause both to happen. Basic physics.
Its described as a black hole yet doesn't demonstrate the more in depth properties of a black hole, matter & energy all around whether it be at rest or not should be drawn into it like it was a gravitational carousel but none of that happened. It just pushed a path through the floor. What was described was not actually depicted.
Its a BLINO, Black-Hole-In-Name-Only.

Bud you don't have to explain yourself. If people think this an actual black hole then let it be. Goku and Vegeta woildn't be able to withstand 1,000x Earths gravity without trouble yet people think they went against a real Black hole.

Goku and Vegeta couldn't even go against Neutron stars and white dwarfs (things that could literally rip other stars to bits with its gravity) and a black hole is greater than both those things.

Neutron stars have gravity billions of times greater than Earths and a Black hole is even more powerful. You could fall a foot from the surface of a Nuetron star and you'd acceletate atleast at relatilvistic speed.

[theherodjl]

Goku definitely universal regardless considering he and beerus were hitting each other with the force capable of destroying the universe being generous ssjg is goku multi galaxy level

And yet after achieving an even more powerful form of SSJG and multiplying that level of strength further with the Kaio-ken, Goku is unable to recreate even a tiny universal ripple or produce a universe destroying Ki blast on his own.
Its highly likely the result of two God Ki users colliding that results in 'universal shockwaves' or 'condensed-Ki universe busting attacks', every other time Goku has used SSJB on an opponent that lacks God Ki merely demonstrates a traditional DB fight that is low key feat-wise.
It cannot possibly be a case of everyone somehow conceding that they match each other's blows or hold back without mention, that would just be an extraordinarily bad copout of why a significant feat suddenly disappeared. The likes of Golden Freeza or Merged Zamasu would never agree to such a condition and would sooner cause universal damage than lose by playing 'fair' with individuals they hate.

[pacz360]

Goku definitely universal regardless considering he and beerus were hitting each other with the force capable of destroying the universe being generous ssjg is goku multi galaxy level

And yet after achieving an even more powerful form of SSJG and multiplying that level of strength further with the Kaio-ken, Goku is unable to recreate even a tiny universal ripple or produce a universe destroying Ki blast on his own.
Its highly likely the result of two God Ki users colliding that results in 'universal shockwaves' or 'condensed-Ki universe busting attacks', every other time Goku has used SSJB on an opponent that lacks God Ki merely demonstrates a traditional DB fight that is low key feat-wise.
It cannot possibly be a case of everyone somehow conceding that they match each other's blows or hold back without mention, that would just be an extraordinarily bad copout of why a significant feat suddenly disappeared. The likes of Golden Freeza or Merged Zamasu would never agree to such a condition and would sooner cause universal damage than lose by playing 'fair' with individuals they hate.

It's called ki control been there,explain since day one and goku perfected a technique that prevented the destruction bod the universe
That's like bitching about how no one nukes a planet post namek saga despite being superior to first form freeza
Freeza wants to rule the universe not destroy it
Merged Zamasu wants destroy mortals not the universe
Both Can damn well do it but they won't cause they don't want to
It's fiction there not going to have characters do X feat multiple times to tell you
Seriously marvel,Dc,saint Seiya and more fictional verses are for more guilty of this shit and operate at the same level like dragon ball when it comes to how strong a Character is yet people wanna give it a pass

[pacz360]

i must have imagined Android 18 ki blast getting sucked up by the attack then.....

Not too mention the arena is made out of the one of the most durable things in the multiverse.

the arena is durable than anything in our universe,Goku comments that the greavity is intense so i have no idea where you are getting it's less gravity than the arena lmao.Whis mentions that the attack is focused into a point to create a mass of gravity,the attacks was called a cage of love that even light can't escape.The attack is called pretty black hole how much more obvious can it get

A black hole is literally defined as a region of space with such a strong gravitational pull that not even light can escape it which what was stated in the episode.I'm not going to argue what is on screen because it doesn't apply exaclt to our real life physics

What does a Ki blast sucked up by it after heading in its direction prove? Cell's kamehameha was sucked by by Gohan's kamehameha too after colliding with it, Ki techniques can totally consume other techniques.
Being made of the most durable substance doesn't mean much if ordinary Ki blasts from fighters with widely varying power levels can fragment or shatter several sections of the arena, the sun withstood a 10x kamehameha from SSJ4 Goku(who according to DB Xenoverse, is close to or on par with the SSJG tier of power) so the arena isn't nearly as durable as stellar objects. The core of a star makes Kachi Katchin look like crumbling sand.
The gravity would be intense for sure but Goku's only ever trained in 100g, that leaves a vary wide range of gravity between a machine that can simulate the gravity of a large planet vs that of a dwarf star. The sun can pull with over a hundred thousand times gravity than the Earth, that's over 10,000x greater gravity that what Goku has trained with. I doubt Goku can even move freely in 1,000x Earth's gravity without having trained in it.
I can get the gravity of the arena being greater than the 'black hole' because the arena was neither displaced or spaghettified in the process, a true black hole would cause both to happen. Basic physics.
Its described as a black hole yet doesn't demonstrate the more in depth properties of a black hole, matter & energy all around whether it be at rest or not should be drawn into it like it was a gravitational carousel but none of that happened. It just pushed a path through the floor. What was described was not actually depicted.
Its a BLINO, Black-Hole-In-Name-Only.

Bud you don't have to explain yourself. If people think this an actual black hole then let it be. Goku and Vegeta woildn't be able to withstand 1,000x Earths gravity without trouble yet people think they went against a real Black hole.

Goku and Vegeta couldn't even go against Neutron stars and white dwarfs (things that could literally rip other stars to bits with its gravity) and a black hole is greater than both those things.

Neutron stars have gravity billions of times greater than Earths and a Black hole is even more powerful. You could fall a foot from the surface of a Nuetron star and you'd acceletate atleast at relatilvistic speed.

Let's see
>Called a black hole
>Heavy mass
>Strong gravity
>Not even light could escape it
>Ate 18 ki blast and expanded
Yep definitely not black hole
Definitely a not Black hole
And androids and goku survived it and weren't fucked up by it yeah they can handle a black hole

[Kamiccolo9]

If you could see it, then obviously some light was escaping it. That's kinda how "seeing" works.

[theherodjl]

It's called ki control been there,explain since day one and goku perfected a technique that prevented the destruction bod the universe
That's like bitching about how no one nukes a planet post namek saga despite being superior to first form freeza
Freeza wants to rule the universe not destroy it
Merged Zamasu wants destroy mortals not the universe
Both Can damn well do it but they won't cause they don't want to
It's fiction there not going to have characters do X feat multiple times to tell you
Seriously marvel,Dc,saint Seiya and more fictional verses are for more guilty of this shit and operate at the same level like dragon ball when it comes to how strong a Character is yet people wanna give it a pass

Oh the "Ki control" argument...
The logic that Ki users can hold back all the destructive power of their blasts but somehow deal full power damage despite having greatly suppressed their power in the first place to prevent it from causing collateral damage on the planet. Its along the lines of saying that you can unleash the destruction of an atomic bomb onto a person but not destroy anything else in the process, its nonsense. They either use full power blasts and threaten the planet or they don't and the planet remains alright, there's no such thing as controlling their Ki in illogical ways to reach a logical answer as to why their attacks are full power but not planet busters. There's too many examples otherwise.
Goku being adept at fighting techniques does not account for everyone simultaneously having the same skill or ideas at he would somehow.
Freeza would rather destroy everything including himself than lose to Saiyans, he demonstrated so on Namek.
Zamasu is thee same way, he was going to make all mortals extinct in all universes by any means necessary.
If they could bust the universe than they most definitely would have as to not lose to what they hate.
It is fiction but that doesn't mean it has to be senseless, otherwise nothing in DB is definite.
Other mediums of fiction aren't what's being called into question here so they're irrelevant.
So far the only example of universe busting from a fight involved Beerus, a Hakaishin. Its likely he may have contributed to it for the most part.

Let's see
>Called a black hole
>Heavy mass
>Strong gravity
>Not even light could escape it
>Ate 18 ki blast and expanded
Yep definitely not black hole
Definitely a not Black hole
And androids and goku survived it and weren't fucked up by it yeah they can handle a black hole

Called a black hole but doesn't follow all the rules of a black hole.
Any object under existing gravity becomes heavy mass, note the apples on Kaio's world.
The "gravity" merely pushed through a section of the stadium without affecting the rest of it, making it something of a physical object than an actual black hole.
Light did escape it, how could anyone see it if it sucked in light?
Gohan's kamehameha expanded after absorbing Cell's kamehameha, its the reaction of many Ki attacks.
Not a true black hole and so didn't affect or kill the Z Senshi like a real one.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Wait... what? You're using Dragon Ball Xenoverse and GT in order to determine the power of SSJG Goku?

While in Dragon Ball Super itself SSJG Goku is shown to be universe level in power?

Jeez you really don't like Dragon Ball characters being powerful do you?

I know! Crazy right!?

But in all seriousness that is a thing that has been established by supplementary material, Goku wasn't universe level by his own strength. He needed Beerus or another being with intense God Ki to rock the cosmos, otherwise the feats become more traditional in the DB sense.

Goku definitely universal regardless considering he and beerus were hitting each other with the force capable of destroying the universe being generous ssjg is goku multi galaxy level

I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is people attempting to butcher physics to claim things are black holes that aren't.

[Saiyan007]

Bud you don't have to explain yourself. If people think this an actual black hole then let it be. Goku and Vegeta woildn't be able to withstand 1,000x Earths gravity without trouble yet people think they went against a real Black hole.

Goku and Vegeta couldn't even go against Neutron stars and white dwarfs (things that could literally rip other stars to bits with its gravity) and a black hole is greater than both those things.

Neutron stars have gravity billions of times greater than Earths and a Black hole is even more powerful. You could fall a foot from the surface of a Nuetron star and you'd acceletate atleast at relatilvistic speed.

A good post from Comicvine

This is how NASA defines a black Hole








In Super the attack meets the exact definition of what a black hole is. A mass of gravity so strong that not even light can escape it. Even if you still wanted to disbelieve that it was a black hole the fact that it's gravity was to much for light to escape would put its gravitational force on the level of a black hole since black holes are the only thing in the universe to actually do that. The only thing that comes close is a neutron star which can only bend light due to it's immense gravity.

Super goes out of the wayto show it's a black hole i could understand if the attack was just called "pretty black hole" and no further poroof was given then you could call it a hyperbole but when it matches up to what NASA says,it's obvious what is meant to be

[Polyphase Avatron]

NASA says black holes are heart shaped, sink into lesser gravity wells, have no singularity or event horizon, have no time dilation, and no gravitational shearing, and are filled with tiny hearts?

Really, this is just stupid. Everyone pushing this line of reasoning is just making themselves look ridiculous to anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of physics and general relativity.

[pacz360]

It's called ki control been there,explain since day one and goku perfected a technique that prevented the destruction bod the universe
That's like bitching about how no one nukes a planet post namek saga despite being superior to first form freeza
Freeza wants to rule the universe not destroy it
Merged Zamasu wants destroy mortals not the universe
Both Can damn well do it but they won't cause they don't want to
It's fiction there not going to have characters do X feat multiple times to tell you
Seriously marvel,Dc,saint Seiya and more fictional verses are for more guilty of this shit and operate at the same level like dragon ball when it comes to how strong a Character is yet people wanna give it a pass

Oh the "Ki control" argument...
The logic that Ki users can hold back all the destructive power of their blasts but somehow deal full power damage despite having greatly suppressed their power in the first place to prevent it from causing collateral damage on the planet. Its along the lines of saying that you can unleash the destruction of an atomic bomb onto a person but not destroy anything else in the process, its nonsense. They either use full power blasts and threaten the planet or they don't and the planet remains alright, there's no such thing as controlling their Ki in illogical ways to reach a logical answer as to why their attacks are full power but not planet busters. There's too many examples otherwise.
Goku being adept at fighting techniques does not account for everyone simultaneously having the same skill or ideas at he would somehow.
Freeza would rather destroy everything including himself than lose to Saiyans, he demonstrated so on Namek.
Zamasu is thee same way, he was going to make all mortals extinct in all universes by any means necessary.
If they could bust the universe than they most definitely would have as to not lose to what they hate.
It is fiction but that doesn't mean it has to be senseless, otherwise nothing in DB is definite.
Other mediums of fiction aren't what's being called into question here so they're irrelevant.
So far the only example of universe busting from a fight involved Beerus, a Hakaishin. Its likely he may have contributed to it for the most part.

Let's see
>Called a black hole
>Heavy mass
>Strong gravity
>Not even light could escape it
>Ate 18 ki blast and expanded
Yep definitely not black hole
Definitely a not Black hole
And androids and goku survived it and weren't fucked up by it yeah they can handle a black hole

Called a black hole but doesn't follow all the rules of a black hole.
Any object under existing gravity becomes heavy mass, note the apples on Kaio's world.
The "gravity" merely pushed through a section of the stadium without affecting the rest of it, making it something of a physical object than an actual black hole.
Light did escape it, how could anyone see it if it sucked in light?
Gohan's kamehameha expanded after absorbing Cell's kamehameha, its the reaction of many Ki attacks.
Not a true black hole and so didn't affect or kill the Z Senshi like a real one.

And you still don't get it and it does make sense
Ki control has been mentioned and explained multiple times in this series especially during the cell and buu saga
Freeza hates goku and Co his goal is to kill them not destroy the universe he wants to rule with no one stopping him
Merged zamasu loves the universe and hates mortal he wants a Universe free of Mortals he can't do that if he just nukes the thing look at the earth of f.trunks depsite the cities being in ruins the forest and such are all fine
Nothing stated beerus was the sole cause of the feat that just your headcanon given goku and beerus were being described as being major cause of the universe destruction whis,elder kai,narrator tells us this
The narrator straight up tells us there hitting each bother with the force capable of destroying the universe so yeah not just beerus
And yes the black hole was real damn black hole given they went describing it as a real one just because it had shape of a heart doesn't mean it doesn't it didn't have properties of a real one
Also just because goku blown through the thing doesn't mean it weak it just mean goku and as too strong for it
And given our heroes survived way worse shit a black hole wasn't going to do shit to them especially goku

[theherodjl]

And you still don't get it and it does make sense
Ki control has been mentioned and explained multiple times in this series especially during the cell and buu saga
Freeza hates goku and Co his goal is to kill them not destroy the universe he wants to rule with no one stopping him
Merged zamasu loves the universe and hates mortal he wants a Universe free of Mortals he can't do that if he just nukes the thing look at the earth of f.trunks depsite the cities being in ruins the forest and such are all fine
Nothing stated beerus was the sole cause of the feat that just your headcanon given goku and beerus were being described as being major cause of the universe destruction whis,elder kai,narrator tells us this
The narrator straight up tells us there hitting each bother with the force capable of destroying the universe so yeah not just beerus
And yes the black hole was real damn black hole given they went describing it as a real one just because it had shape of a heart doesn't mean it doesn't it didn't have properties of a real one
Also just because goku blown through the thing doesn't mean it weak it just mean goku and as too strong for it
And given our heroes survived way worse shit a black hole wasn't going to do shit to them especially goku

You're right, it totally makes sense just because you say it does without question. A very convincing, eloquent argument.
At what point in either the Cell or Boo saga did Goku or anyone state "Oh hey guys! Listen! You can totally defeat your opponent with a planet busting full power Ki blast, but remember to hold back the majority of its force so as to not bust even that small mountain over there but still use 100% strength! You guys got it!" or anything like that? Let alone DBS?
As I stated before, Freeza's a pretty sore loser and was willing to destroy Namek just to win. He destroyed Earth just so he didn't lose to Vegeta, why would he suddenly care about the welfare of the universe all of a sudden, as to hold back to not even destroy a solar system? Does he really value even the local sun and planets enough not to wreck them when he's enraged? Is that in Freeza's character?
Zamasu had left entire worlds barren and lifeless in many universes, does that sound like someone who "loves the universe"? He'd be just as happy destroying a solar system or galaxy if it meant eradicating mortals.
You're talking to me about headcanon when the ONLY feat to include universe busting in a fight thus far, was Goku vs Beerus? I suppose all the other fights thus far that didn't even destroy a galaxy counts for nothing? You're entitled to your opinion.
Only Two GODS were confirmed as having had the power to destroy the universe with one of them being a God of Destruction, I think you ought to give Beerus some credit at least. Its not like the narrator or writer is infallible.
Actually it DOES mean it didn't have the properties of a real black hole, have you not been paying attention to the various physics and scientific facts regarding it??? A heart shaped 'black hole' that acts as a physical object and the only proof that it even has its own gravitational pull, really is just the fact that it sucked in a Ki blast but did not for anything else. I guess its just one of those REAL black holes that only sucks up Ki.
When have they ever, seriously, survived something worse than a black hole??? I'm truly curious.

[Polyphase Avatron]

People seem to be mostly arguing over whether Goku could survive a real black hole. What's my opinion on that? Well, we don't really know, unless we see it happen. But saying he can because he survived this technique makes no sense.

Real black holes have infinite time dilation past the event horizon, gravitational shearing to the point of spaghettification of matter, intense radiation, an infinitely dense singularity at the center, and tons of other hazards that this attack didn't have. In order to survive a real black hole, he would have to survive all of those things. So it simply makes no sense how surviving something that lacked all of them proves he could.

[theherodjl]

People seem to be mostly arguing over whether Goku could survive a real black hole. What's my opinion on that? Well, we don't really know, unless we see it happen. But saying he can because he survived this technique makes no sense.

Real black holes have infinite time dilation past the event horizon, gravitational shearing to the point of spaghettification of matter, intense radiation, an infinitely dense singularity at the center, and tons of other hazards that this attack didn't have. In order to survive a real black hole, he would have to survive all of those things. So it simply makes no sense how surviving something that lacked all of them proves he could.

I think the limitation is that Goku has all the problems with an organic body, he needs to breathe, his blood needs to flow, he has to perspire and subject himself to the toxins of fatigue. Eventually one of these ends up being his undoing in a fight and he has to either end the battle or die trying. He might have the overwhelming power with SSJB + Kaio-ken or UI to prevent a gruesome demise from treading along a black hole but sooner or later he would run out of energy and be subject to the laws of physics, thus death would be inevitable unless he used I'm to teleport away.
Superman is able to tangle with black holes due to being charged to the brim with solar radiation that eliminates most of his physical weaknesses, but then even he is not truly invincible and could get seriously harmed or die if he attempted to continually resist a black hole's effects.
It might just take Goku achieving a new state of physical status to fully defy the laws of nature for good.

Goku learns to transform his body into Ki