GT or Super? Which one is the best?

[Michsi]

I wasn't able to amass enough interest to properly watch GT, but I've seen a few episodes here and there. And what I've seen just didn't charm me the way DB did when I first laid eyes on it. It also doesn't look good IMO.

Super had a rough start as well, and even now I can't say I've watched it in it's entirety. There were a lot of episodes to power through in order to get up to date with the series by the time Crunchyroll and Daisuki got the rights, and some stretches of Super are a downright chore. But the TOP is, with all it's flaws, worlds more entertaining than what GT showed me. And yes, using more of the main cast is a huge reason for that. Super may not be the sequel I would've wanted, but it's fun enough for me to come back to it. And more than anything, I've actually experienced that giddy anticipation before an episode , something I used to feel a lot as a kid with shows I loved and it's something I haven't felt for a long time. For that alone I rank Super way higher than maybe it objectively deserves.

[sunsetshimmer]

GT is far better to me. Super lacks any originality. It's a pure fanservice series highly focused on bringing back what people liked in previous series. The most and pretty much only original saga is Battle of Gods which is a movie retelling anyway. It's not what i'd expect from series that had almost 20 years to come with original plot. For GT, we had Shadow Dragons arc which was very original concept and Baby was also very original and interesting villain.

We also know that DBZ is way more popular than DB, so i absolutely loved the first saga of GT, with adventures, humour and kid Goku again. It was a very risk step and i appreciated it because DBZ is overrated as hell imo.

We can easily compare Golden Frieza and Super 17 sagas, since both arcs were lazy "bring back old villain" stuff:
Frieza - most overused villain, appeared in DBZ fillers, movies and GT, he also had the longest fight in anime history. Got a very lazy recolor form and got trashed in instant.
Android 17 - minor antagonist, didn't have much screentime. Got cool looking and fresh form and trashed everyone fighting 4 saiyans and Uub at once.
Let's guess which arc is better. I am not even comparing visuals, because Golden Frieza arc is the worst looking arc ever.

I also absolutely hate how DBS destroyed personalities of some characters. Sure, Vegeta in DBS is way more useful than he was in GT, that's a fact, but personality-wise he is complete trash compared to his GT counterpart. I guess it depends on what people except from this character, badass fights (DBS) or badass character (GT).

[Kataphrut]

Biggest thing I can say is that I got sick of GT and stopped watching halfway through when I watched it on TV as a child. Whereas I've kept up with Super since around the late Goku Black arc and have been eagerly tuning in to watch it every week.

[Kuwabara]

Super isn't even finished yet, how can anyone say it's better than GT? It of course will be, but still.

[lancerman]

Super isn't even finished yet, how can anyone say it's better than GT? It of course will be, but still.

Maybe because it's already coming up on twice the length of GT and has had more arcs than GT. Super could end up becoming the longest Dragon Ball series. Also GT isn't really well liked, so it's kind of easy for the comparison to be made.

[Timetraveller]

Biggest thing I can say is that I got sick of GT and stopped watching halfway through when I watched it on TV as a child. Whereas I've kept up with Super since around the late Goku Black arc and have been eagerly tuning in to watch it every week.

Definitely worth watching it again if you haven't watched it since you were a kid. You'll find there's more to appreciate now. My tastes now are different to when I was 6. For example I don't find Sesame street as fun as I did then

[sunsetshimmer]

Super isn't even finished yet, how can anyone say it's better than GT? It of course will be, but still.

DBS has almost twice as much episodes GT had
It also has more arc

When will you people stop with this silly "It's too soon to rate DBS" talk? At the time of Future Trunks saga, i was already sure series will never be better than GT for me. Even if Super came with very good saga, it wouldn't make all the previous bad episodes just disappear or be forgotten.

It's already far more than enough to tell if you like DBS more than GT or not.

Biggest thing I can say is that I got sick of GT and stopped watching halfway through when I watched it on TV as a child. Whereas I've kept up with Super since around the late Goku Black arc and have been eagerly tuning in to watch it every week.

Did you watch it in the joke called FUNimation version? Or other version? Because watching FUNimation version doesn't really count as watching GT to me.

[Kataphrut]

Biggest thing I can say is that I got sick of GT and stopped watching halfway through when I watched it on TV as a child. Whereas I've kept up with Super since around the late Goku Black arc and have been eagerly tuning in to watch it every week.

Definitely worth watching it again if you haven't watched it since you were a kid. You'll find there's more to appreciate now. My tastes now are different to when I was 6. For example I don't find Sesame street as fun as I did then

Maybe I will, but it is not high on the priority list at all. My point was that it couldn't hook me even by the low-standards of a kid, so I doubt it's going to impress me now. And when I went back and checked out the stuff I missed, none of it sounded appealing. I originally gave up at Super 17 and I'm not going to watch that when a better version exists in Movie 12. Shadow Dragons sound cool, but their disappointing reputation precedes them, and I've already seen the highlights.

Did you watch it in the joke called FUNimation version? Or other version? Because watching FUNimation version doesn't really count as watching GT to me.

It was the Funimation version, which means I didn't see most of the Black Star Dragon Ball arc. When that entails missing out on the likes of the Para Para Brothers and that doll-collecting bloke, I can't get too cut up about that. I wasn't too cut up about missing the Copy Vegeta arc in Super either. Ironically, the Funi version has me more excited for that because of Brian Drummond.

[YamiGoku]

How can GT have more enjoyable moments? it only have 64 episodes and and the first arc is a snore fest...

Pretty simple to me. It's a snorefest but at least they tried something new. I prefer it when a series does something daring but fails than when something tries to play it safe but still fails. The first 2 arcs of Super were just terrible. Zero creativity (who the hell thought bringing Frieza back with a different color scheme was a good idea or making Goku's newest transformation after 30 years? basically SS1 Goku with blue hair) and worst of all, unacceptably bad animation. I understand bad animation but I don't know what you would call that Goku vs Frieza fight.

I enjoyed Goku's SS4 transformation more than SSB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luxoEuUNEg4, liked seeing the characters grown up instead of them not aging at all like Goten and Trunks in Super and liked the villains more too. Zamasu was pretty good if we ignore how his arc ended and the fact that Black is another Goku doppelganger. But Baby and Omega > Golden colored Freeza in depth and design. Hit is another Pikkon, a no-nonsense rival but honorable rival to Goku. I thought Nuova had more depth to him than Hit too.

Lastly too much fanservice like making movie villains canon through doppelganger characters. Everything in Super is dictated by fan service. You guys like making fun of Yamcha? We do too. You guys want to see Goku get a heartfelt moment with his teacher Muten Roshi? You got it. You guys want to see a female super saiyan? Yep, make sure you buy her figurines though. Frieza has always been the most popular villain? Ok, we'll bring him back again. Hey, Future Trunks is a fan favorite? Toriyama, write a story with him in it. A lot of it doesn't work and feels like a cheap way to sell merchandise and pander to nostalgia. I love me some fan service but only if it's done right. Super relies to heavily on it and suffers from a lack of original ideas. Go watch the first arc of GT and you'll see all the wonderful new character/world designs that Toei created even if you found it boring.

Super has had its moments. Jiren vs Goku was the most hyped I've ever been and some nice filler episodes inbetween arcs but the plot inconsistencies, animation problems (it's been good for the last 20 episodes but that doesn't excuse the first 40-50 episodes) and blatant fan service let it down to me.

Something new? like trying to re-capture the essence of the original dragon ball by making Goku kid again?

wonderful new characters and world designs? that cool and all, but if the story doesn't have anything interesting it in it; may as well just be nice pictures on a special magazine rather than wasting all the episodes on just that.

plot inconsistencies? I guess having the movie villains randomly appear on the anime its better?

the Ssj4 transformation is one of those things i cant deny may be better than the gods transformations, idk, that's subjective, but at last i admit i think it's cool and i like it

there is nothing wrong on you (or anybody) liking GT more, and I know super is not perfect, has fan service and his start was rough,but in my opinion, there is no contest, super just has more to offer.

[sunsetshimmer]

It was the Funimation version, which means I didn't see most of the Black Star Dragon Ball arc. When that entails missing out on the likes of the Para Para Brothers and that doll-collecting bloke, I can't get too cut up about that. I wasn't too cut up about missing the Copy Vegeta arc in Super either. Ironically, the Funi version has me more excited for that because of Brian Drummond.

First arc has some silly episodes, but it also makes a good job in character development and you can't really appreciate Baby without watching the first saga.
FUNimation version was trash for many other reasons as well:
-Awful music (thank god DVD version let you watch it with original music)
-Awful translation
-Tons of plotholes like Super 17 being only twice as strong as regular 17 which would make him destroyed by base Vegeta in instant
-Skipping many of important dialogue
-Pan is actually annoying instead of being cute
-Goku is even more justice hero than he was in dubbed Z

I know FUNimation changed a lot of things for Z as well, but they mostly did much better job there. Especially with music, because Faulconer score is awesome.

[Timetraveller]

plot inconsistencies? I guess having the movie villains randomly appear on the anime its better?

It is when you consider that it was a mini arc and the movie villains appeared in 1-2 episodes maximum, kind of like the episode where all the villains reappeared in the forrest but with 100x better animation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYeORo3mFtQ). Things like creating tournament rules and then having weak characters like Muten Roshi break them to make them relevant again or Trunks magically materializing a spirit bomb and concentrating it into a sword are much worse to me.

Super still has the potential to be better but if we're comparing the first 64 episode of Super to the 64 episodes of GT, there's no contest to me.

[Scsigs]

GT is far better to me. Super lacks any originality. It's a pure fanservice series highly focused on bringing back what people liked in previous series. The most and pretty much only original saga is Battle of Gods which is a movie retelling anyway. It's not what i'd expect from series that had almost 20 years to come with original plot. For GT, we had Shadow Dragons arc which was very original concept and Baby was also very original and interesting villain.

What I highlighted there is a criticism that can VERY WELL apply to GT as well, not just Super. Here's the thing that makes GT actually guilty of this & not Super. A lot of GT spends its time redressing previous arcs from Z or other things as if they're anything new. Copying & pasting from TV Tropes:
1. The Super 17 Saga and the villains escaping from hell was literally a retake on the Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn movie.
2. The story of Zoonama, a minor villain from episodes 7 and 8, is a repeat of Oolong's origin story from the original Dragon Ball with the sole exception that, unlike Oolong, Zoonama does not become a recurring character.
3. The lead up to Baby was recycled almost entirely from a 1993 video game, Dragon Ball Z Gaiden: Saiyajin Zetsumetsu Keikaku, about an evil alien scientist with a vendetta against the Saiyans for killing the Tuffles who created a fearsome monster to destroy the remaining Saiyans. Also, Baby taking over the Earth by possessing all of Goku's friends and turning them against him, recycled right out of the Garlic Jr Saga, just switched Gohan for Goku.
4. The final fight against Baby is a fusion of Goku's fights against Vegeta and Frieza. Goku reaching a new form of Super Saiyan and utterly curb stomping Baby is just like when Goku went Super Saiyan against Frieza. Even Goku's darker personality is a Call-Back to that battle. Baby turning into a giant ape to fight Goku because he's outclassed, exactly what Vegeta did in his battle against Goku.
5. Goku and Vegeta's fusion breaking before they can kill Omega Shenron because the power output of a Super Saiyan 4 shorted the fusion time is just like what happened to Gotenks in his battle against Super Buu. His fusion broke early because of the power drain of Super Saiyan 3. It happened again with Vegito later in Dragon Ball Super.
6. Goku killing the final Big Bad with giant Spirit Bomb is just like the finale of Dragon Ball Z where Goku kills Majin Buu with a giant Spirit Bomb.

Yeah, the recycled script trope hit this series like a truck. Meanwhile in Super, they've done things that haven't been done before in the series, or took some unexpected twists in either crafting new arcs wholesale, or continuing stories from Z. Name a single thing they do that is exactly like something from Z or DB. Continuing Future Trunks' story by bringing him back or the tournaments don't really count, since they have plot points & characters created newly for Super. The first 2 arcs are what happened in the movies, yeah, & I won't say they weren't pointless considering that fact, but I actually like Resurrection F better in Super than the film, considering I always felt like that was an entire TV show arc condensed into a film's runtime anyway, compared to Battle of Gods, which felt like a film & could only be converted to a TV show arc through poor pacing & a ton of filler.
GT had some decent ideas, but it ultimately dived right into recycling what came before. Plus, GT ran on fanservice, are you fucking kidding me, dude? The only arc I can say that didn't was the Black Star Dragon Ball hunt arc, but even then, that's exactly the very first arc of DB, just in space & only with Goku, Pan, & Trunks, so there's enough different there. However, afterwards, the arcs weren't anything but continuations of what came before. Baby came from the hatred the Tuffles (or whatever they're called in Japanese) for the Saiyans, though it's a bit of an asspull in that it was assumed they wiped them out before the Tuffles could reallydo anything, but whatever. The Super 17 arc was just Fusion Reborn & the Shadow Dragons arc devolved into the Buu Saga, which was an arc that was already running on fumes due to Toriyama's fatigue at the time.
Super at least tries to do things new. Bringing in the higher gods than the Kais, the gods of destruction, their caretakers/trainers, the Omni King Zeno, etc. Yeah, they brought back Frieza & Future Trunks, but Toriyama said he's wanted to bring back Frieza since he wrote the manga, as I heard at one point during Resurrection F's production, & continuing Future Trunks' story is something everyone's been wanting. Hell, even Shin Budokai: Another Road got in on that, even if it did recycle too much from previous material for no reason.

We also know that DBZ is way more popular than DB, so i absolutely loved the first saga of GT, with adventures, humour and kid Goku again. It was a very risk step and i appreciated it because DBZ is overrated as hell imo.

I wouldn't say DBZ is overrated, but I would say DB is underrated. However, why do you think that GT took a hard turn from harkening back to DB to continuing the tone & storytelling of Z instead? When it was running in Japan, something happened to make the writers change the tone as fast as possible. I'm not saying that the first arc was entirely bad, but I think coming right off the heels of Z, which spent its entirety being more action oriented & serious than DB was a change of pace that not a lot of people were gonna be ready for. Then again, if the writing had been better, they probably wouldn't have minded. Why do you think people don't mind, or even like, the slice-of-life episodes in Super? They're in between the arcs & not invasive. They also give some decent focus on other characters than Goku & Vegeta. Super tries its best to harken back to both styles while doing its own thing, & a lot better than GT, honestly.

We can easily compare Golden Frieza and Super 17 sagas, since both arcs were lazy "bring back old villain" stuff:
Frieza - most overused villain, appeared in DBZ fillers, movies and GT, he also had the longest fight in anime history. Got a very lazy recolor form and got trashed in instant.
Android 17 - minor antagonist, didn't have much screentime. Got cool looking and fresh form and trashed everyone fighting 4 saiyans and Uub at once.
Let's guess which arc is better. I am not even comparing visuals, because Golden Frieza arc is the worst looking arc ever.

Why does everyone shit on Super's animation? I don't get it. And I'm not talking about the few episodes that you wonder how they got passed QC either. I get those. Super's animation is good overall. Could be better, but it's exactly what you should expect from modern Dragon Ball.
Anyways, Frieza, I don't see as overused. While he IS approaching those levels, what with getting an arc in Super, getting brought back in the TOP, & having a counterpart in U6, previously, he wasn't the only villain to be brought back. In the majority of the filler he was brought back in, it was alongside other villains. Fusion Reborn is the only film I can see, prior to RF, that he was front & center. Even then, though, he was only onscreen to get one-shotted by Gohan & he wasn't even the main antagonist of that film. The majority of your argument towards Frieza really holds no water the way you're intending it to.
As for 17, why do you think Toriyama brought him back in Super? 17 is untapped potential, ripe for future appearances. He only had one token appearance at the end of Z, so bringing him back was a good move. Also, you can't argue anything they did with him in GT was a good move. Gero teaming up with Miyu to make a doppelganger 17 in order to hypnotize the original to fuse with this one & be used as a weapon of mass destruction versus having him be happy being a park ranger with a wife & kids, then be recruited by Goku to fight in the TOP? Unlike how Future Trunks ended up at the end of his arc in Super, I think that's a pretty interesting development for 17. Then again, that's not what you were arguing, but oh well...

I also absolutely hate how DBS destroyed personalities of some characters. Sure, Vegeta in DBS is way more useful than he was in GT, that's a fact, but personality-wise he is complete trash compared to his GT counterpart. I guess it depends on what people expect from this character, badass fights (DBS) or badass character (GT).

Considering Vegeta's character development in Z towards the end, I'd say either development works for him. I'm personally not seeing how he's not a badass character in Super. The man wants to train to at least be on par with Goku, if not outright surpass him. That's been a pretty consistent part of his character for a while. He made piece with Goku being stronger than him & figured out the differences between them. Compared to how he was written in the past, I much rather like Vegeta's characterization in Super so far. Goku's is the more problematic though, no matter what people say. Vegeta's matured into a man who you can respect, but still get why he'd feel the way he would in some situations. Compared to Z, where he let Frieza & Cell get more powerful just to feed his own ego, & then let Babidi influence his mind so that he could return to being a killing machine because he hated his life on Earth, despite it being a good life. This is the version of Vegeta I'd expect post Z. GT wasn't bad, but we rarely got to see Vegeta's personality, plus the Blutz Wave Generator, really didn't give us a sense of how Vegeta progressed. He seemed like a decent tactician for thinking to use fusion, but that goes against Vegeta's character in a way, since HE had to be convinced 3 TIMES beforehand, in Z, Super, & Fusion Reborn, to use the fusion techniques (I know FR isn't canon, but still). I'd say he's somewhere in the middle in Super.

[ABED]

Freeza is absolutely overused.

[Scsigs]

Freeza is absolutely overused.

Even so, can you blame the writers for doing that? He's one of the most popular villains in Z, other than Cell.

[ABED]

Freeza is absolutely overused.

Even so, can you blame the writers for doing that? He's one of the most popular villains in Z, other than Cell.

I can because either Toriyama would move on to another antagonist or he would develop them into good guys, but we've seen that several times before. I'd much rather he continue to create new antagonists instead of going back to the well because he's popular.

[sunsetshimmer]

What I highlighted there is a criticism that can VERY WELL apply to GT as well, not just Super. Here's the thing that makes GT actually guilty of this & not Super. A lot of GT spends its time redressing previous arcs from Z or other things as if they're anything new. Copying & pasting from TV Tropes:
1. The Super 17 Saga and the villains escaping from hell was literally a retake on the Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn movie.
2. The story of Zoonama, a minor villain from episodes 7 and 8, is a repeat of Oolong's origin story from the original Dragon Ball with the sole exception that, unlike Oolong, Zoonama does not become a recurring character.
3. The lead up to Baby was recycled almost entirely from a 1993 video game, Dragon Ball Z Gaiden: Saiyajin Zetsumetsu Keikaku, about an evil alien scientist with a vendetta against the Saiyans for killing the Tuffles who created a fearsome monster to destroy the remaining Saiyans. Also, Baby taking over the Earth by possessing all of Goku's friends and turning them against him, recycled right out of the Garlic Jr Saga, just switched Gohan for Goku.
4. The final fight against Baby is a fusion of Goku's fights against Vegeta and Frieza. Goku reaching a new form of Super Saiyan and utterly curb stomping Baby is just like when Goku went Super Saiyan against Frieza. Even Goku's darker personality is a Call-Back to that battle. Baby turning into a giant ape to fight Goku because he's outclassed, exactly what Vegeta did in his battle against Goku.
5. Goku and Vegeta's fusion breaking before they can kill Omega Shenron because the power output of a Super Saiyan 4 shorted the fusion time is just like what happened to Gotenks in his battle against Super Buu. His fusion broke early because of the power drain of Super Saiyan 3. It happened again with Vegito later in Dragon Ball Super.
6. Goku killing the final Big Bad with giant Spirit Bomb is just like the finale of Dragon Ball Z where Goku kills Majin Buu with a giant Spirit Bomb.

1. Agreed. That's why i compared it to Golden Frieza which was lazy as well.
2. I see it more like a reference. DBS makes them too.
3. Except Myuu didn't plan anything against saiyans. Baby was the one that created Myuu and is responsible for RIldo, machine-mutants and Luud. Series wanted you to think that it's another "evil scientist revenge" thing only to show you how wrong you was. The only thing Baby and Hatchiyack had in common was that they were made by Tuffles.
4. It was completely different to me. Goku was meant to transform against Baby, it wasn't a surprise like SSJ. That was entire plan of Old Kai. Also, Goku didn't wreck Frieza as much as Baby. Frieza just went full power. Also, Baby Vegeta, unlike Vegeta, didn't want to transform. He was afraid that he will lose control. It was Bulma's plan, not his. Although Goku fighting against oozaru was a reference to Goku vs Vegeta.
5. Yes, but Gogeta unlike Vegito Blue actually achieved something. He cleaned entire Earth and if it wasn't for him, Goku wouldn't be able to use spirit bomb at all because planet was separated from the rest of universe. Vegito Blue was pure and pointless fanservice that wasn't even meant to appear in original story. Toriyama clearly stated that Fused Zamasu would've lost to Goku and Vegeta if he wasn't immortal and iirc he actually wasn't immortal anymore after Goku destroyed his ring with kaioken kick. Vegito wasn't needed at all.
6. Agreed, but it was only ending. Entire arc concept was something completely original.

[lancerman]

Freeza is absolutely overused.

Even so, can you blame the writers for doing that? He's one of the most popular villains in Z, other than Cell.

I can because either Toriyama would move on to another antagonist or he would develop them into good guys, but we've seen that several times before. I'd much rather he continue to create new antagonists instead of going back to the well because he's popular.

I mean in canon he was only brought back once in an antagonist role and that was in the Ressurection Arc/movie. And he's the only one who made a return like that. I mean yeah he's in the TOP, but he's not the main villain in it, if anything he's taking a similar role to Piccolo in the early Saiyan arc or Vegeta in the Freeza and Cell arcs.

[ABED]

I consider his brief appearance in the Cyborg arc to be his second appearance. He had already been defeated decisively.

And your last sentence isn't making this better. We've seen redemption arcs with two big bads before.

Something in GT's favor is its brevity.

[Dbzfan94]

the first arc is a snore fest...

The same way the first two arcs of Super are horrendous and snore fest to get through.

[YamiGoku]

the first arc is a snore fest...

The same way the first two arcs of Super are horrendous and snore fest to get through.

The reetelings are far from perfect, and the Freeza Vs Goku fight on the RF arc, is (in my opinion) the worst super has given us.
but at last these two arc have: the slice of life episodes, beerus and whis, the Goku vs Beerus fights (ill take even the fixed version of episode 5 over any fight of the Black Star arc of GT) and has the Vegeta Blue vs Golden Freeza.

What does the Black Star Balls arc have? the only thing I remember are, the cell wannabe on the first planet, wich didnt feel like something important, the dancing brothers, and the robot "god" thing who was defeated by base Goku and Pan?
the only thing closer to something remotly important i rememer is, Goku vs Rildo and the reveal of Baby, but how many episodes you have to watch before that?