Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[buutenks]

Seems ssj blue Goku from exhibition tourney> ultimate Gohan(current).

This episode shows that ssj2 Kefla would have proly pushed Jiren quite a bit.

[majinwarman]

The eyes make it look like a new form and the darker tint of the hair. The eyes are ultra instincty, if that's a word.

The eyes looked blue to me but we have to wait for next week to be sure. I'm willing to be wrong because I don't really care about arguing over it.

It's cool, I'm not putting any stock in it either way. It is or it isn't. Will be fun to see what the hell it is next week.

I don't understand why people want new forms for everyone. Just give it time and it will happen later in another arc. It doesn't make sense to me at all from a storypoint of view.

[BWri]

The eyes looked blue to me but we have to wait for next week to be sure. I'm willing to be wrong because I don't really care about arguing over it.

It's cool, I'm not putting any stock in it either way. It is or it isn't. Will be fun to see what the hell it is next week.

I don't understand why people want new forms for everyone. Just give it time and it will happen later in another arc. It doesn't make sense to me at all from a storypoint of view.

I don't care for new forms either, because they butcher the power scale needlessly, but in the grand scheme of things they'll likely want to give Vegeta something since Goku now has KKx20 and UI which aren't really forms, but two things Vegeta doesn't really have. I'd enjoyed a new technique more than anything.

[Guesswhoo]

Vegeta said that Jiren's the strongest person he's ever fought.
So if someone still thought Merged Zamasu was stronger than him... Forget it.

I didn't see that line in the episode but if it is in then Toei officially doesn't care anymore (or I'm reading too much in it). Let me take this quickly :
-A heavily suppressed Jiren is the strongest vegeta ever fought : Jiren (heavily suppressed) > Merged Zamasu
-Vegeto SSB struggled against that Zamasu and vegeta line makes it appear that Jiren is a lot stronger : Jiren (heavily suppressed) >= Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu
(THIS IS WHERE THE BS BEGIN)
-early UI was able to fight head on against a less suppressed Jiren: Jiren (less suppressed) >= UI >Vegeto SSB
-Kelfa SSJ berserk is a bit stronger than a tired Kaioken SSB and SSJ2 is enough to boost her to stronger than the UI Jiren fought : Kelfa SSJ2 > UI > Jiren(less suppressed) >=early UI > Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEE WHAT IS WRONG IN THIS SCALING ? Kale and Caulifla were both trashed by a tired SSG goku in their strongest form, and yet the SSJ2 of their fused form would stomp (by this idiot scaling) not only Merged Zamasu (who should be stronger too) but vegeto SSB too. Don't tell me that the berserk is doing this because Kale SSJ2 berserk was shown to be weaker than SSJ3 and still struggling against SSJ2 even with the help of SSJ2 caulifla.
The potara have set in stone power up and the only additional power up known is the rival power up, there is NO lesbian PU or Sister power up.
You are going to tell me that potara for two SSJ2 (post FoT) tier character can boost them to UI level but the potara for two SSB (post FoT) is somehow weaker than that (even if they were on par with UI it still doesn't make sense)


I already had my doubt in Toei's writer competence when Trunks asspulled his way up to SSR level but they still gave us the benefit of doubt because Black wasn't serious but... this is madness .
The level of BS scaling is bigger than when Goku fought on par against Buucolo in DBZ (and that was pure filler but THIS SH* IS CANON !!!!).

[Kenneth La Torre]

Vegeta said that Jiren's the strongest person he's ever fought.
So if someone still thought Merged Zamasu was stronger than him... Forget it.

I didn't see that line in the episode but if it is in then Toei officially doesn't care anymore (or I'm reading too much in it). Let me take this quickly :
-A heavily suppressed Jiren is the strongest vegeta ever fought : Jiren (heavily suppressed) > Merged Zamasu
-Vegeto SSB struggled against that Zamasu and vegeta line makes it appear that Jiren is a lot stronger : Jiren (heavily suppressed) >= Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu
(THIS IS WHERE THE BS BEGIN)
-early UI was able to fight head on against a less suppressed Jiren: Jiren (less suppressed) >= UI >Vegeto SSB
-Kelfa SSJ berserk is a bit stronger than a tired Kaioken SSB and SSJ2 is enough to boost her to stronger than the UI Jiren fought : Kelfa SSJ2 > UI > Jiren(less suppressed) >=early UI > Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEE WHAT IS WRONG IN THIS SCALING ? Kale and Caulifla were both trashed by a tired SSG goku in their strongest form, and yet the SSJ2 of their fused form would stomp (by this idiot scaling) not only Merged Zamasu (who should be stronger too) but vegeto SSB too. Don't tell me that the berserk is doing this because Kale SSJ2 berserk was shown to be weaker than SSJ3 and still struggling against SSJ2 even with the help of SSJ2 caulifla.
The potara have set in stone power up and the only additional power up known is the rival power up, there is NO lesbian PU or Sister power up.
You are going to tell me that potara for two SSJ2 (post FoT) tier character can boost them to UI level but the potara for two SSB (post FoT) is somehow weaker than that (even if they were on par with UI it still doesn't make sense)


I already had my doubt in Toei's writer competence when Trunks asspulled his way up to SSR level but they still gave us the benefit of doubt because Black wasn't serious but... this is madness .
The level of BS scaling is bigger than when Goku fought on par against Buucolo in DBZ (and that was pure filler but THIS SH* IS CANON !!!!).

...

[dragon boss z]

So before Vegeta got his pride boost was he weaker than SSB Goku? Because Jiren originally wasn't even blocking Vegeta while he was fighting back against Goku and Goku had to save Vegeta.

[Guesswhoo]

Vegeta said that Jiren's the strongest person he's ever fought.

I didn't see that line in the episode but if it is in, then Toei officially doesn't care anymore (or I'm reading too much in it). Let me take this quickly :
-A heavily suppressed Jiren is the strongest vegeta ever fought : Jiren (heavily suppressed) > Merged Zamasu
-Vegeto SSB struggled against that Zamasu and vegeta line makes it appear that Jiren is a lot stronger : Jiren (heavily suppressed) >= Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu
(THIS IS WHERE THE BS BEGIN)
-early UI was able to fight head on against a less suppressed Jiren: Jiren (less suppressed) >= UI >Vegeto SSB
-Kelfa SSJ berserk is a bit stronger than a tired Kaioken SSB and SSJ2 is enough to boost her to stronger than the UI Jiren fought : Kelfa SSJ2 > UI > Jiren(less suppressed) >=early UI > Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEE WHAT IS WRONG IN THIS SCALING ? Kale and Caulifla were both trashed by a tired SSG goku in their strongest form, and yet the SSJ2 of their fused form would stomp (by this idiot scaling) not only Merged Zamasu (who should be stronger too) but vegeto SSB too. Don't tell me that the berserk is doing this because Kale SSJ2 berserk was shown to be weaker than tired SSJ3 Goku and still struggling against tired SSJ2 Goku even with the help of SSJ2 caulifla.
The potara have set in stone power up and the only additional power up known is the rival power up, there is NO lesbian PU or Sister power up.
You are going to tell me that potara for two SSJ2 (post FoT) tier character can boost them to UI level but the potara for two SSB (post FoT) is somehow weaker than that (even if Vegeto was on par with UI it still doesn't make sense)


I already had my doubt in Toei's writer competence when Trunks asspulled his way up to SSR level but they still gave us the benefit of doubt because Black wasn't serious but... this is madness .
The level of BS scaling is bigger than when Goku fought on par against Buucolo in DBZ (and that was pure filler but THIS SH* IS CANON !!!!).

Sorry.. had to correct some things, there may be other fault but too mad now to tell.
That damned vegetas line singlehandedly broke the camels back by throwing a jumping shark at it . Imma going to shut my brain when watching DBS, Manga have WAY BETTER scaling than this.

[PushoverMediaCritic]

Vegeta said that Jiren's the strongest person he's ever fought.
So if someone still thought Merged Zamasu was stronger than him... Forget it.

I didn't see that line in the episode but if it is in then Toei officially doesn't care anymore (or I'm reading too much in it). Let me take this quickly :
-A heavily suppressed Jiren is the strongest vegeta ever fought : Jiren (heavily suppressed) > Merged Zamasu
-Vegeto SSB struggled against that Zamasu and vegeta line makes it appear that Jiren is a lot stronger : Jiren (heavily suppressed) >= Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu
(THIS IS WHERE THE BS BEGIN)
-early UI was able to fight head on against a less suppressed Jiren: Jiren (less suppressed) >= UI >Vegeto SSB
-Kelfa SSJ berserk is a bit stronger than a tired Kaioken SSB and SSJ2 is enough to boost her to stronger than the UI Jiren fought : Kelfa SSJ2 > UI > Jiren(less suppressed) >=early UI > Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEE WHAT IS WRONG IN THIS SCALING ? Kale and Caulifla were both trashed by a tired SSG goku in their strongest form, and yet the SSJ2 of their fused form would stomp (by this idiot scaling) not only Merged Zamasu (who should be stronger too) but vegeto SSB too. Don't tell me that the berserk is doing this because Kale SSJ2 berserk was shown to be weaker than tired SSJ3 Goku and still struggling against tired SSJ2 Goku even with the help of SSJ2 caulifla.
The potara have set in stone power up and the only additional power up known is the rival power up, there is NO lesbian PU or Sister power up.
You are going to tell me that potara for two SSJ2 (post FoT) tier character can boost them to UI level but the potara for two SSB (post FoT) is somehow weaker than that (even if Vegeto was on par with UI it still doesn't make sense)


I already had my doubt in Toei's writer competence when Trunks asspulled his way up to SSR level but they still gave us the benefit of doubt because Black wasn't serious but... this is madness .
The level of BS scaling is bigger than when Goku fought on par against Buucolo in DBZ (and that was pure filler but THIS SH* IS CANON !!!!).

Sorry.. had to correct some things, there may be other fault but too mad now to tell.
That damned vegetas line singlehandedly broke the camels back by throwing a jumping shark at it . Imma going to shut my brain when watching DBS, Manga have WAY BETTER scaling than this.

No, that sounds about right to me. I've been saying about that for a while now. Though Kale is not weaker in her Mastered Berserk form than SS2 Goku, that was her Controlled Berserk form, which is a much weaker state. Mastered Berserk is only slightly weaker than God Goku.

[ZombieVito]

I didn't see that line in the episode but if it is in then Toei officially doesn't care anymore (or I'm reading too much in it). Let me take this quickly :
-A heavily suppressed Jiren is the strongest vegeta ever fought : Jiren (heavily suppressed) > Merged Zamasu
-Vegeto SSB struggled against that Zamasu and vegeta line makes it appear that Jiren is a lot stronger : Jiren (heavily suppressed) >= Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu
(THIS IS WHERE THE BS BEGIN)
-early UI was able to fight head on against a less suppressed Jiren: Jiren (less suppressed) >= UI >Vegeto SSB
-Kelfa SSJ berserk is a bit stronger than a tired Kaioken SSB and SSJ2 is enough to boost her to stronger than the UI Jiren fought : Kelfa SSJ2 > UI > Jiren(less suppressed) >=early UI > Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEE WHAT IS WRONG IN THIS SCALING ? Kale and Caulifla were both trashed by a tired SSG goku in their strongest form, and yet the SSJ2 of their fused form would stomp (by this idiot scaling) not only Merged Zamasu (who should be stronger too) but vegeto SSB too. Don't tell me that the berserk is doing this because Kale SSJ2 berserk was shown to be weaker than SSJ3 and still struggling against SSJ2 even with the help of SSJ2 caulifla.
The potara have set in stone power up and the only additional power up known is the rival power up, there is NO lesbian PU or Sister power up.
You are going to tell me that potara for two SSJ2 (post FoT) tier character can boost them to UI level but the potara for two SSB (post FoT) is somehow weaker than that (even if they were on par with UI it still doesn't make sense)


I already had my doubt in Toei's writer competence when Trunks asspulled his way up to SSR level but they still gave us the benefit of doubt because Black wasn't serious but... this is madness .
The level of BS scaling is bigger than when Goku fought on par against Buucolo in DBZ (and that was pure filler but THIS SH* IS CANON !!!!).

Vegeta never fought Corrupted Zamasu. That Zamasu is the one that is GoD level.

[Issei189]

So before Vegeta got his pride boost was he weaker than SSB Goku? Because Jiren originally wasn't even blocking Vegeta while he was fighting back against Goku and Goku had to save Vegeta.

When Vegeta countered his attack combo, Jiren was blocking though.

[Guesswhoo]

I didn't see that line in the episode but if it is in then Toei officially doesn't care anymore (or I'm reading too much in it). Let me take this quickly :
-A heavily suppressed Jiren is the strongest vegeta ever fought : Jiren (heavily suppressed) > Merged Zamasu
-Vegeto SSB struggled against that Zamasu and vegeta line makes it appear that Jiren is a lot stronger : Jiren (heavily suppressed) >= Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu
(THIS IS WHERE THE BS BEGIN)
-early UI was able to fight head on against a less suppressed Jiren: Jiren (less suppressed) >= UI >Vegeto SSB
-Kelfa SSJ berserk is a bit stronger than a tired Kaioken SSB and SSJ2 is enough to boost her to stronger than the UI Jiren fought : Kelfa SSJ2 > UI > Jiren(less suppressed) >=early UI > Vegeto SSB > Merged Zamasu

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEE WHAT IS WRONG IN THIS SCALING ? Kale and Caulifla were both trashed by a tired SSG goku in their strongest form, and yet the SSJ2 of their fused form would stomp (by this idiot scaling) not only Merged Zamasu (who should be stronger too) but vegeto SSB too. Don't tell me that the berserk is doing this because Kale SSJ2 berserk was shown to be weaker than tired SSJ3 Goku and still struggling against tired SSJ2 Goku even with the help of SSJ2 caulifla.
The potara have set in stone power up and the only additional power up known is the rival power up, there is NO lesbian PU or Sister power up.
You are going to tell me that potara for two SSJ2 (post FoT) tier character can boost them to UI level but the potara for two SSB (post FoT) is somehow weaker than that (even if Vegeto was on par with UI it still doesn't make sense)


I already had my doubt in Toei's writer competence when Trunks asspulled his way up to SSR level but they still gave us the benefit of doubt because Black wasn't serious but... this is madness .
The level of BS scaling is bigger than when Goku fought on par against Buucolo in DBZ (and that was pure filler but THIS SH* IS CANON !!!!).

Sorry.. had to correct some things, there may be other fault but too mad now to tell.
That damned vegetas line singlehandedly broke the camels back by throwing a jumping shark at it . Imma going to shut my brain when watching DBS, Manga have WAY BETTER scaling than this.

No, that sounds about right to me. I've been saying about that for a while now. Though Kale is not weaker in her Mastered Berserk form than SS2 Goku, that was her Controlled Berserk form, which is a much weaker state. Mastered Berserk is only slightly weaker than God Goku.

That was a tired God goku and he pulled a Cooler on her blast with a cocky smile on his face, Goku was obviously playing around ( even if Kale was able to spar against him for a bit)

[HeroR]

That really looks like UI+SSB in that ending shot there for Vegeta. He has pupils just like UI Goku (which SSJB lacks) and the form just looks different from SSJB. Whether it is or not, Vegeta's clearly getting some new transformation next episode.

The eyes are the same eyes as Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God. Having pupils isn't just something UI has.

[dragon boss z]

So before Vegeta got his pride boost was he weaker than SSB Goku? Because Jiren originally wasn't even blocking Vegeta while he was fighting back against Goku and Goku had to save Vegeta.

When Vegeta countered his attack combo, Jiren was blocking though.

Ya, that was after he understood Jiren's movements, but he also said Jiren wasn't using as much power as he was against Goku, though maybe he meant Ultra Instinct Goku?

[HeroR]

It has an aura? Sorry. I was just going by the ending image with him and UI Goku.

I believe the new ending was just showing Blue Vegeta. I don't think he's going to get a new form yet. But, if he does then I wouldn't mind it at all.

Goku also literally says during the NEP that Vegeta has achieved a new form, and Blue Vegeta in the NEP has darker blue hair and aura than Goku's Blue does.

Actually what he said was, "Vegeta awakens to an amazing power beyond Super Saiyan Blue'. Not that he got a new form specifically.

[HeroR]

So i just watched it subbed, and i got to say, it was way more one sided than i thought. Vegeta even pointed out that jiren was using less power against him than jiren used against goku. Jiren calling vegetas final flash "not half bad" might put him above the ssbkx20 spirit bomb, probably.

I highly doubt that since Jiren chose to tank the Final Flash because of Vegeta's dare. With the Spirit Bomb, he deflected it and the Grand Priest was worried that it would destroyed the stage and even shield Zen'o in the cut scenes.

[buutenks]

Dunno where Vegeta stands, but his final flash was definitely above the genki dama.

Also, why the heck is Belmod sweating every time someone touches Jiren? Does he not know Jiren's full power?

[HeroR]

Dunno where Vegeta stands, but his final flash was definitely above the genki dama.

Also, why the heck is Belmod sweating every time someone touches Jiren? Does he not know Jiren's full power?

Based on what? The Spirt Bomb got far more reaction about its power over Vegeta's Final Flash.

[Bullza]

Ok so this is what I've got for this episode.

- Dyspo is above Final Form Frieza. Whether it's just down to speed or not who knows. He still seems like he's above Super Saiyan God level or at least can trouble people above that level.

- Ultimate Gohan didn't even damage Toppo with his Kamehameha. However Super Saiyan Blue Goku did back in the Zen Exhibition. However Toppo was not at full power against Goku but then he likely isn't against Gohan either.

- So for me that does suggest that Ultimate Gohan and Android 17 are significantly below Super Saiyan Blue level, especially as Vegeta could at least hurt Jiren with a physical attack.

- Jiren didn't even move when Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta wailed on him, odd seeing as he defended himself against Super Saiyan God Goku. He did right afterwards though so...

- Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta then got a massive Pride boost. How strong he is at that point? It's gotta be several times as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku. Perhaps Aniraza level? I wouldn't say the Final Flash was more powerful than the Spirit Bomb though not even close as Jiren fought back to avoid that hitting him.

- Next episode Vegeta is going to power up even more so that'll be interesting.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Based on episode 126, I'm guessing vegeta is going to be the first mortal in universe 7 to officially surpass a God? Second to jiren i guess.

[AvatarReiko]

Did anyone else notice Goku using SSJ2 Blue for a moment? There are several scenes where he has SSJ2 hair. Not sure if that was intentional or a mistake by the animators.
https://imgur.com/LxtaLLH
EDIT: How strong would a hypothetical SSJ2 Blue even be? I feel like it would still be weaker than KKx20 Blue, especially considering that SSJ2 is only 2x SSJ