Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 15; Still Unreleased

[Robo4900]

I'm sorry but Sabat isn't on the same level of McNeil when it comes to screaming or even Drummond. There were moments in Kai where he didn't sound very good when it came to screaming.

Goddammit, this is what I get for posting at 3:30AM.
I meant Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil. Those two are like the kings of screaming.

This would beg to differ.

In Dragon Ball, at least, Scott McNeil and Brian Drummond are miles beyond Sabat in terms of screams. While basically everything else about Ocean vs Funimation can be boiled down to opinions, Drummond and McNeil have always blown Sabat out of the water with screams in Dragon Ball.

I'm hoping and praying here that Ocean Kai comes. Hearing Brian Drummond's Over 9000 line again will be worth it

We're right there with you, man.

I'm really looking forward to more of McNeil's Piccolo the most. But yeah, Drummond's Vegeta is easily second-up from that.

I wonder if Don Brown is back as King Kai this time around... I do hope so.

Since the Ocean dub of Kai is supposed to be accurate, Drummond will likely say 8000 instead of 9000.

I think it'll be "Over 8000", and that Drummond will deliver it in the oldschool way(Over eight thouSAAAAAAAAANND).
As much as I can see what the Funimation uncut way(Over eight thousandAAAARHHGHGHHHHGHHH) was trying to do, I always thought adding the extended grunt to the end to cover that open mouth at the end of the line was a pretty clunky way of doing it, so I imagine we'll get the full "THOUSAAAAAAAND" scream.

It's possible Drummond might have pushed for them to use "9000" instead of "8000", but I dunno. To be honest, 8000 vs 9000 isn't a big deal to me at this point, what matters is the delivery of the line, and I imagine Drummond will nail it as always, and it will be awesome.

Peter Kelamis: I left the role when the show wasn't able to continue recording with me being in Los Angeles half the time as well as being busy with other work.

As far as "dubbing" goes, it is the least paying of animation work. Their budgets usually don't allow the actor to "phone patch" in their work. You are either able to physically make it to the gig or not.
If you tend to be a busy actor, unfortunately "dubbing" falls farther down the list than say on-screen work or "Pre-lay" recordings.

The part was fun to do and the people involved were great to work with, but I moved on. Kirby is a friend of mine and the show is lucky to have someone as good as him available to do the role.

Man, Peter Kelamis is such a nice guy. This gave me some warm fuzzies.

In any case, that does clear that up. And with this, and Ian Corlett apparently leaving over pay disputes about screaming, which may still apply now(?), I can see why Ocean decided to only re-audition Kirby out of the three previous Vancouver voices of Goku.
I do wonder if they also re-auditioned Jeremiah Yurk and/or Jeffrey Watson.

[8000 Saiyan]

Man, Peter Kelamis is such a nice guy. This gave me some warm fuzzies.

In any case, that does clear that up. And with this, and Ian Corlett apparently leaving over pay disputes about screaming, which may still apply now(?), I can see why Ocean decided to only re-audition Kirby out of the three previous Vancouver voices of Goku.
I do wonder if they also re-auditioned Jeremiah Yurk and/or Jeffrey Watson.

I doubt it. Remember that they only casted Blue Water actors for minor parts, so I doubt they would have cast a Blue Water actor for the main part.

[Night Owl]

Jesus, the UKDB. I forgot all about that place. We are truly rolling back the years now!

[8000 Saiyan]

I would like Don Brown to return as King Kai, but I wouldn't mind someone who is closer to Yanami's rendition.

[Robo4900]

I would like Don Brown to return as King Kai, but I wouldn't mind someone who is closer to Yanami's rendition.

I never like to use how close someone sounds to another actor as a measure of actual quality. Scott McNeil isn't very close at all to Piccolo's original Japanese voice, and yet as far as I'm concerned, McNeil was perfect casting.

Having said that, yeah, getting another actor would be fine. As long as it's a different take on it than Brown's, though.

I doubt it. Remember that they only casted Blue Water actors for minor parts, so I doubt they would have cast a Blue Water actor for the main part.

I wouldn't call Tenshinhan minor.

And really, I don't think they'd impose such a weird, and likely rather unnecessary, limitation on themselves in terms of casting; for the main roles, I imagine they probably auditioned actors from Calgary and Vancouver, and just picked whoever was best. Naturally, for minor roles, it's probably more economical to do Calgary voices, so they may have only auditioned Calgary actors, but for the parts where Vancouver actors may be brought in, if the best actor for the role from Calgary fits better than the best actor for the role from Vancouver, why not cast the Calgary guy?

[ButtfaceKalinski]

In any case, that does clear that up. And with this, and Ian Corlett apparently leaving over pay disputes about screaming, which may still apply now(?), I can see why Ocean decided to only re-audition Kirby out of the three previous Vancouver voices of Goku.
I do wonder if they also re-auditioned Jeremiah Yurk and/or Jeffrey Watson.

Just took a minute to check this since I hadn't heard of it ever being addressed (and to be honest it's a fairly DBZ specific problem). Screaming still counts as one word, and the per line fee is still less than 5 bucks http://www.ubcp.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... .03.13.pdf

They really did Kirby dirty back in the day and didn't book the super saiyan 3 episode of all things on a Friday, so he had to cancel other work commitments. I know with time and distance everybody looks back on hard, crappy work with a certain fondness, and a regular payday is always nice, but I wouldn't blame either of those three to have ran in the other direction as auditions came around.

[Robo4900]

In any case, that does clear that up. And with this, and Ian Corlett apparently leaving over pay disputes about screaming, which may still apply now(?), I can see why Ocean decided to only re-audition Kirby out of the three previous Vancouver voices of Goku.
I do wonder if they also re-auditioned Jeremiah Yurk and/or Jeffrey Watson.

Just took a minute to check this since I hadn't heard of it ever being addressed (and to be honest it's a fairly DBZ specific problem). Screaming still counts as one word, and the per line fee is still less than 5 bucks http://www.ubcp.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... .03.13.pdf

They really did Kirby dirty back in the day and didn't book the super saiyan 3 episode of all things on a Friday, so he had to cancel other work commitments. I know with time and distance everybody looks back on hard, crappy work with a certain fondness, and a regular payday is always nice, but I wouldn't blame either of those three to have ran in the other direction as auditions came around.

I see.

Still, Kirby did audition for Goku this time. It's just that they decided to turn him away, so I don't imagine there's any ill will in either direction between Kirby and Ocean, either over Dragon Ball specifically, or in general. And Ian Corlett did say he'd have been interested in returning, but neither him nor Peter Kelamis were auditioned. So... I don't think this is on the actors at all; Ocean would have made the decision to only re-audition Kirby. Whether or not they also only re-auditioned one previous actor for each part(Or perhaps one actor from Vancouver, and one from Calgary, as seems to have been the case for Tenshinhan, at least) for everyone else is something we don't know. If that is the case, then perhaps there is no bad blood, and it's just that they only re-auditioned one previous actor from each pool to make things simple, and whenever neither of the two they auditioned impressed them, they opened up a full casting call.

Still, I imagine it is quite possible Corlett and Kelamis were specifically chosen to be left out, given the fact both of them left suddenly in the middle of things in both of their respective runs(Corlett left in the middle of season 2, with episode 37 being his last, and Kelamis left in the middle of the Perfect Cell saga, with episode 144 being his last).

[TheGreatness25]

As much as I love Corlett and Kelamis is an okay choice (when directed well), I wouldn't audition them. Why? Sooo they could decide one fine day that they've had enough and bail?

Besides, it's supposedly done up until the end of the Cell arc right? Wouldn't the other actors know who's playing Goku? I realize they don't record together, but surely they had some team meeting, maybe a Christmas party, something?

[8000 Saiyan]

As much as I love Corlett and Kelamis is an okay choice (when directed well), I wouldn't audition them. Why? Sooo they could decide one fine day that they've had enough and bail?

Besides, it's supposedly done up until the end of the Cell arc right? Wouldn't the other actors know who's playing Goku? I realize they don't record together, but surely they had some team meeting, maybe a Christmas party, something?

Scott knows that Richard Ian Cox is playing Goku.

[TheGreatness25]

Oh nice. Almost like Ian James Corlett, only... not. (I mean the name)

[NitroEX]

I wouldn't call Tenshinhan minor.

And really, I don't think they'd impose such a weird, and likely rather unnecessary, limitation on themselves in terms of casting; for the main roles, I imagine they probably auditioned actors from Calgary and Vancouver, and just picked whoever was best. Naturally, for minor roles, it's probably more economical to do Calgary voices, so they may have only auditioned Calgary actors, but for the parts where Vancouver actors may be brought in, if the best actor for the role from Calgary fits better than the best actor for the role from Vancouver, why not cast the Calgary guy?

If they were dubbing Dragon Ball he wouldn't be considered a minor character as he has many lines there but for the Kai production alone that's not really the case, they have no real reason to treat him as a major character. I can't really fault them for not hiring someone more high profile who's likely more expensive just to play him. In any case, I'm sure Brendan Hunter did a fine job even though I would've preferred a new take (preferably someone like Vincent Tong or someone comparable to Tom Choi from LA).

I can't speak on the individual reasons for people leaving the show, but if you're referring to the issue I think you're referring to (ie getting paid per line defined as 10 words, with a scream counting for one word, meaning you could blow out your voice and only earn the minimum session fee) then I can tell you that language was definitely still in the animation agreement in the 2000s.

The issue I was thinking of was one that Ian Corlett and Brian Drummond have mentioned in a couple interviews and panels where they explain that "whala" or vocalisations and screams did not count as a line and thus were not deemed as something they would need to be paid for — which is more understandable in western cartoons (and helps explain why there's often so little of it in Marvel or DC action shows for instance) but not so much for anime like DBZ with long strenuous power-ups and kiai.

The reason I mentioned it was probably fixed by then was because Brian Drummond has mentioned that the rule was changed "because of Dragon Ball Z" and it seemed as though he was referring to the Saban dub in which Ian Corlett decided to leave for those very reasons. I can't imagine things wouldn't have improved as time went on and they dubbed more episodes (and more screams) during the Westwood run but if it didn't then I'm shocked to hear that.

[Robo4900]

If they were dubbing Dragon Ball he wouldn't be considered a minor character as he has many lines there but for the Kai production alone that's not really the case, they have no real reason to treat him as a major character. I can't really fault them for not hiring someone more high profile who's likely more expensive just to play him. In any case, I'm sure Brendan Hunter did a fine job even though I would've preferred a new take (preferably someone like Vincent Tong or someone comparable to Tom Choi from LA).

I'm still not so sure.
Tenshinhan is a major part of the fight against the Saiyans, he's one of the group who went to fight the cyborgs Trunks warned them about...
If #17 is being played by a Vancouver actor(He is; Cole Howard), Nappa is being played by a Vancouver actor(He is; Michael Dobson is returning as him), and Vancouver actors are playing at least some of the Ginyus(Scott McNeil is reprising Jheese), then I'd say Tenshinhan would be up for a Vancouver actor if one fitted.

Again, as I say, I don't think they'd limit themselves for the bigger roles. I imagine if some guy from Calgary ended up a better Goku than Richard Ian Cox, I think they very well may have gone with him. If they have both talent pools at their disposal, it only makes sense to take full advantage of both.

The reason I mentioned it was probably fixed by then was because Brian Drummond has mentioned that the rule was changed "because of Dragon Ball Z" and it seemed as though he was referring to the Saban dub in which Ian Corlett decided to leave for those very reasons. I can't imagine things wouldn't have improved as time went on and they dubbed more episodes (and more screams) during the Westwood run but if it didn't then I'm shocked to hear that.

Makes sense.

This isn't really that related, but thanks for the link to that panel; it's awesome. Love me some Ocean crew panels.
Haven't actually seen one with Peter Kelamis before, I don't think, so that's really cool to see.

[ButtfaceKalinski]

Haha wow, thanks for the link. Every animation agreement I'd ever seen has had the same specific language about screaming, and I thought it was BS to only get paid for one line to scream your guts out. I can't imagine how bad people were getting washed back then.

[8000 Saiyan]

I'd be a happy man if Richard Newman, Don Brown and Terry Klassen reprised Ginyu, Burter and Guldo.

[Robo4900]

I'd be a happy man if Richard Newman, Don Brown and Terry Klassen reprised Ginyu, Burter and Guldo.

Yeah, me too.

I dunno if Terry Klassen would reprise Guldo, though. I remember hearing some doubts about him coming back as Kuririn, since he mostly writes instead of acting these days.
Though, to be honest, I think Klassen is the one of the three I'd be the most okay with being recast.

Really, for me, having the full original four Ginyus back would be awesome, but Richard Newman's Ginyu is the main event in my opinion. So, as long as he's back, I'm happy

Y'know, I hope the Ocean Kai airdates get announced fairly soon. I'm considering doing a watch-through of Blue Water's Dragon Ball in the lead-up to Ocean Kai's release.

[SX10]

That reminds me Robo, Marni's last tweet confused me a little. When she said things were on track, I wasn't sure if she was referring to the channel as a whole (obtaining a broadcasting license) or obtaining a license to air the show. I'm not sure how this works. I hope it's the latter as it was in the conversation regarding the dub. It was reassuring to read all the same.

[Super Sayian Prime]

That reminds me Robo, Marni's last tweet confused me a little. When she said things were on track, I wasn't sure if she was referring to the channel as a whole (obtaining a broadcasting license) or obtaining a license to air the show. I'm not sure how this works. I hope it's the latter as it was in the conversation regarding the dub. It was reassuring to read all the same.

Her comment sounded very much in regards to launching the channel.

[SX10]

That reminds me Robo, Marni's last tweet confused me a little. When she said things were on track, I wasn't sure if she was referring to the channel as a whole (obtaining a broadcasting license) or obtaining a license to air the show. I'm not sure how this works. I hope it's the latter as it was in the conversation regarding the dub. It was reassuring to read all the same.

Her comment sounded very much in regards to launching the channel.

Yeah that's what I was leaning toward.

[NitroEX]

I'm still not so sure.
Tenshinhan is a major part of the fight against the Saiyans, he's one of the group who went to fight the cyborgs Trunks warned them about...
If #17 is being played by a Vancouver actor(He is; Cole Howard), Nappa is being played by a Vancouver actor(He is; Michael Dobson is returning as him), and Vancouver actors are playing at least some of the Ginyus(Scott McNeil is reprising Jheese),

I think the main difference here is that Micheal Dobson and Scott McNeil aren't voicing those characters alone, they're both most definitely doing double duty, so to speak, by voicing multiple roles. For Tenshinhan to get a Vancouver actor I'd wager that that actor would also need to be voicing multiple characters as well in order to justify the higher expense. Cole Howard seems to be a bit of an exception at first glance but we don't really know how many characters he's voiced in the dub, it's also a possibility that they'd give villain characters like #17 preferential treatment for some reason, I mean you would kind of want #17 to have an exceptional performance since he's in a key battle with Piccolo that lasts a fairly long time, Tenshinhan is involved in key fights for Kai but his involvement and spotlight in those is usually quite brief.

Again, as I say, I don't think they'd limit themselves for the bigger roles. I imagine if some guy from Calgary ended up a better Goku than Richard Ian Cox, I think they very well may have gone with him. If they have both talent pools at their disposal, it only makes sense to take full advantage of both.

It's possible, especially with Brendan Hunter who's a veteran among the Calgary talent, but in the case of casting Goku I just can't see that being the case at all. I think they'd want a higher profile name for the lead regardless, both to get the attention of anime dub fans and to reassure networks that the dub is in safe hands with a proven leading actor. Richard Ian Cox is no doubt talented and could probably nail the audition regardless but it certainly helps that he also has both of those things going for him. A no-name actor from Calgary would be a tougher sell from a business perspective and although we have had examples in the past of no-name actors carrying Dragon Ball dubs, those were all in very different circumstances, either they were starting at a midpoint and imitating a previously successful cast or they were cast in a sequel series that was riding off of the success of a profitable DBZ run.

[Robo4900]

I think the main difference here is that Micheal Dobson and Scott McNeil aren't voicing those characters alone, they're both most definitely doing double duty, so to speak, by voicing multiple roles. For Tenshinhan to get a Vancouver actor I'd wager that that actor would also need to be voicing multiple characters as well in order to justify the higher expense. Cole Howard seems to be a bit of an exception at first glance but we don't really know how many characters he's voiced in the dub, it's also a possibility that they'd give villain characters like #17 preferential treatment for some reason, I mean you would kind of want #17 to have an exceptional performance since he's in a key battle with Piccolo that lasts a fairly long time, Tenshinhan is involved in key fights for Kai but his involvement and spotlight in those is usually quite brief.

Except, even if he reprises every role from the prior Ocean equivalent to Kai's material, all of Michael Dobson's roles are fairly small; Nappa, Nail, Dr. Gero, and King Cold. Tenshinhan's role is larger than all four of these, but if Calgary is so much cheaper, surely it makes more sense to just grab all three of those roles from cheaper Calgary actors.

Anyway, you say that stuff about "An exceptional performance"... Again, my whole point here is that you don't limit your options with this kind of thing. If an actor from Calgary can do a better job as a given character, you'd be turning out an inferior product by picking a Vancouver actor if you're only doing so out of snobbery, or for the bigger name or something.

And hey, Tenshinhan has a lot of big moments. He's a major player in the fight against Nappa, and his holding back Cell is a big, iconic moment. #17 really isn't that much more major than Tenshinhan. In Kai, #17 is introduced in episode 64, then absorbed by Cell just 11 episodes later in episode 75. He really isn't around that long.

It's possible, especially with Brendan Hunter who's a veteran among the Calgary talent, but in the case of casting Goku I just can't see that being the case at all. I think they'd want a higher profile name for the lead regardless, both to get the attention of anime dub fans and to reassure networks that the dub is in safe hands with a proven leading actor. Richard Ian Cox is no doubt talented and could probably nail the audition regardless but it certainly helps that he also has both of those things going for him. A no-name actor from Calgary would be a tougher sell from a business perspective and although we have had examples in the past of no-name actors carrying Dragon Ball dubs, those were all in very different circumstances, either they were starting at a midpoint and imitating a previously successful cast or they were cast in a sequel series that was riding off of the success of a profitable DBZ run.

Richard Ian Cox isn't exactly a big name, and Ocean don't strike me as the type to screw over a potentially better actor just over the merits of the name for a case like Ocean Kai, especially when they've already got the heavy-hitters of Scott McNeil and Brian Drummond reprising fan-favourite voices.