"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

I honestly kind of like the ambiguity of where exactly No. 17's power stands in comparison to SSJ3 Gokū's. I'm a little bit worried, though, that, if the scaling down indeed takes place in the manga, foes who pushed Gokū and Vegeta to SSJ Blue will be significantly fewer in number.

For example, let's say that No. 17 remains approximately SSJ3 tier while Gohan-kun remains approximately what he was when he took on Boo (as opposed to rivaling a SSJ Blue). This might mean that the likes of Koichiarator and Agnlasa (though I have a weird feeling Agnlasa won't be in the manga, for some reason) might be scaled down so as to rival tiers like SSJ3 and Ultimate, placing them far below the SSJ Red and Blue tiers they were in the anime, reducing the number of SSJ Blue tier opponents for Gokū and Vegeta to exert themselves against.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Don't forget Blue drains stamina in the manga. Goku and Vegeta probably will be fighting most of the time without it knowing Toppo and Jiren are around.

I think the anime stretched out a lot from Mr.Toriyama's and forced Goku into a bunch of unnecessary fight's. Like dbgtFO I expect Jiren to be the first to truly test Goku. Goku will probably be looking for Jiren immediately, like he did in the anime and actually fight him fairly early instead of having a bunch of detours.

There's so much Toyotarõ can do, I wouldn't worry much even with so little top tier competition. Actually using characters unique abilities is one possibility. Maji-Kajo was wasted and all of Universe 9 had a bunch of unique skills which well written would trouble even Goku or Vegeta; just to give some examples.
Looking at the anime fight's isn't a good way to determine the manga, I couldn't make head or tails of 90% of the anime fight's.

The tiers in the manga will probably be something like:

Hakaishin level - Jiren
Blue level - Goku, Vegeta, Toppo, Hit, Freeza and Kefla.
God Level - Dyspo, Ribrianne, Agnlasa and maybe at least one representative for each of the other Universes.

Can't wait, hope the next chapter jumps immediately into the action.

[Pannaliciour]

I honestly kind of like the ambiguity of where exactly No. 17's power stands in comparison to SSJ3 Gokū's. I'm a little bit worried, though, that, if the scaling down indeed takes place in the manga, foes who pushed Gokū and Vegeta to SSJ Blue will be significantly fewer in number.

For example, let's say that No. 17 remains approximately SSJ3 tier while Gohan-kun remains approximately what he was when he took on Boo (as opposed to rivaling a SSJ Blue). This might mean that the likes of Koichiarator and Agnlasa (though I have a weird feeling Agnlasa won't be in the manga, for some reason) might be scaled down so as to rival tiers like SSJ3 and Ultimate, placing them far below the SSJ Red and Blue tiers they were in the anime, reducing the number of SSJ Blue tier opponents for Gokū and Vegeta to exert themselves against.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Don't forget Blue drains stamina in the manga. Goku and Vegeta probably will be fighting most of the time without it knowing Toppo and Jiren are around.

I think the anime stretched out a lot from Mr.Toriyama's and forced Goku into a bunch of unnecessary fight's. Like dbgtFO I expect Jiren to be the first to truly test Goku. Goku will probably be looking for Jiren immediately, like he did in the anime and actually fight him fairly early instead of having a bunch of detours.

There's so much Toyotarõ can do, I wouldn't worry much even with so little top tier competition. Actually using characters unique abilities is one possibility. Maji-Kajo was wasted and all of Universe 9 had a bunch of unique skills which well written would trouble even Goku or Vegeta; just to give some examples.
Looking at the anime fight's isn't a good way to determine the manga, I couldn't make head or tails of 90% of the anime fight's.

The tiers in the manga will probably be something like:

Hakaishin level - Jiren
Blue level - Goku, Vegeta, Toppo, Hit, Freeza and Kefla.
God Level - Dyspo, Ribrianne, Agnlasa and maybe at least one representative for each of the other Universes.

Can't wait, hope the next chapter jumps immediately into the action.

There are 80 fighters, do you really think that Toyo can do something special. It will be Goku Vegeta Jiren etc. Every z fighter will have a moment like the anime.

[LightBing]

There are 80 fighters, do you really think that Toyo can do something special. It will be Goku Vegeta Jiren etc. Every z fighter will have a moment like the anime.

I don't know about special but he can surely do something great. I don't know why the numbers of fighters matters when Toyotarõ can eliminate most of them in the first chapter if he so desires. It's all about execution.

[jeffbr92]

I don't know about special but he can surely do something great. I don't know why the numbers of fighters matters when Toyotarõ can eliminate most of them in the first chapter if he so desires. It's all about execution.

If not even the anime could make a Battle Royale worth, I think it will be difficult for the manga too. But, yes. I'm willing to bet that Toyotaro might have someone like Vegeta to use a Explosive Wave and eliminate 30 characters on the progress.

[Grimlock]

I'm willing to bet that Toyotaro might have someone like Vegeta to use a Explosive Wave and eliminate 30 characters on the progress.

That would still feel like a real battle royale. Not like in the anime, where everyone respected each other's battles/felt like 1 on 1.

[prince212]

I don't know about special but he can surely do something great. I don't know why the numbers of fighters matters when Toyotarõ can eliminate most of them in the first chapter if he so desires. It's all about execution.

If not even the anime could make a Battle Royale worth, I think it will be difficult for the manga too. But, yes. I'm willing to bet that Toyotaro might have someone like Vegeta to use a Explosive Wave and eliminate 30 characters on the progress.

That’s a very fine option , for example kale - Broly kicking out 30 in the blink of an eye , and absolutely more battle royal , attacks from the back etc , survival fights , no respecting a duel and standing watching , take advantage of every situation
That’s what I want Toyotarō to do , make us feel that the tournament arc is a battle and not individual fights with espectators like a regular Tenkaichi Budōkai tournament in the earth. He did it great with the exhibition fights between gods , so that concepts works for me

[Miracles]

I definitely think Jiren will be the first to push Goku to Blue in the manga. IIRC he went blue against Nink, the Trio de Dangers, Kale, Dyspo, Maji-Kajo and Ribrianne before fighting Jiren in the anime. I could easily imagine the manga not having him go that far, maybe only use SSG against Dyspo, if that fight also happens there.

Agreed. In the manga, Super Saiyan god and Super Saiyan blue are actually respected as the name/level applies, "god."

[Kaiosama]

I definitely think Jiren will be the first to push Goku to Blue in the manga. IIRC he went blue against Nink, the Trio de Dangers, Kale, Dyspo, Maji-Kajo and Ribrianne before fighting Jiren in the anime. I could easily imagine the manga not having him go that far, maybe only use SSG against Dyspo, if that fight also happens there.

Agreed. In the manga, Super Saiyan god and Super Saiyan blue are actually respected as the name/level applies, "god."

I expect Goku will go to full power MSSB and get stomped by Jiren much in the same way Vegeta did by Beerus. I also think Goku will only awaken UI once in this arc (during the final fight with Jiren).

[Zeru14]

I definitely think Jiren will be the first to push Goku to Blue in the manga. IIRC he went blue against Nink, the Trio de Dangers, Kale, Dyspo, Maji-Kajo and Ribrianne before fighting Jiren in the anime. I could easily imagine the manga not having him go that far, maybe only use SSG against Dyspo, if that fight also happens there.

Agreed. In the manga, Super Saiyan god and Super Saiyan blue are actually respected as the name/level applies, "god."

I expect Goku will go to full power MSSB and get stomped by Jiren much in the same way Vegeta did by Beerus. I also think Goku will only awaken UI once in this arc (during the final fight with Jiren).

Yeah Toyotaro will be more practical with the transformations, Goku will be using SSJ and SSJ2(maybe SSJ3) for most fights switching to Red then Blue for only the strongest opponents, Vegeta will also be using SSJ and his Mutated SSJ2(stronger that SSJ3), then switching to Red and Blue. Unlike in the anime Goku and Vegeta will probably stay in their non-god SSJ forms instead turning back into their base forms, and transforming over and over.

[Black Hawk]

Don't forget Blue drains stamina in the manga. Goku and Vegeta probably will be fighting most of the time without it knowing Toppo and Jiren are around.

I think the anime stretched out a lot from Mr.Toriyama's and forced Goku into a bunch of unnecessary fight's. Like dbgtFO I expect Jiren to be the first to truly test Goku. Goku will probably be looking for Jiren immediately, like he did in the anime and actually fight him fairly early instead of having a bunch of detours.

There's so much Toyotarõ can do, I wouldn't worry much even with so little top tier competition. Actually using characters unique abilities is one possibility. Maji-Kajo was wasted and all of Universe 9 had a bunch of unique skills which well written would trouble even Goku or Vegeta; just to give some examples.
Looking at the anime fight's isn't a good way to determine the manga, I couldn't make head or tails of 90% of the anime fight's.

The tiers in the manga will probably be something like:

Hakaishin level - Jiren
Blue level - Goku, Vegeta, Toppo, Hit, Freeza and Kefla.
God Level - Dyspo, Ribrianne, Agnlasa and maybe at least one representative for each of the other Universes.

Can't wait, hope the next chapter jumps immediately into the action.

Good point; I'd forgotten about that! Now I expect that SSJ Red to be as high as Gokū and Vegeta go until Jiren.

I actually hope that most of the universes will be for the underdogs of Universe Seven to grab some glory with. I'd really like to see things more or less divided up by ability; Turtle Hermit could show off how much he's still got it by taking out everyone on his level, whereas Kurilin and Tianjinfan could show off that humans can still be powerful by taking out everyone on their level, etc.

What I really, really want to see is more teamwork. I'd absolutely fangirl over Turtle Hermit, Tianjinfan, and Kurilin using their unique abilities and tactics together in order to take down foes perhaps as strong as Freeza was on Namek.

With Toyotarō's track record, I really need to stop worrying; he's never disappointed me in the past, and it'd be dumb of me to believe he will now.

[micah007]

As I've said before I don't envision him having trouble making the first half of the Tournament as good or better depending on opinion than the anime. What I worry about is Goku vs Jiren and the second half, which if nothing else has been entertaining and epic more often than I thought it would be. I don't want him to tone any of the major fights down. I say this because while I did enjoy Goku and co vs Merged Zamasu it still felt like a scaled down fight compared to the anime.

[buutenks]

In the manga, form what i could tell 17 was holding back vs ssj3 Goku, since he had no intention to kill. He was progressively increasing his power. He went from base, to ssj2 then to ssj3 and then did a massive ki ball which Goku got freaked out when he saw it. So for now id say 17 is above ssj3 Goku. We will see in the ToP if he is ssg level or above.

Once ToP finishes in the manga also, we will be able to properly scale every char. Since the anime changes a char's BP depending on how they want to wank someone.

Toei could have easily fixed the issues with Trunks pulling powers out of his ass with an episode or 2 of proper training with Goku/Vegeta or Whis if they wished for him to be on ssj blue and fused zamasu level. But no they wasted it on talking about crap we already now(I'm looking at you, ep 58).

As I've said before I don't envision him having trouble making the first half of the Tournament as good or better depending on opinion than the anime. What I worry about is Goku vs Jiren and the second half, which if nothing else has been entertaining and epic more often than I thought it would be. I don't want him to tone any of the major fights down. I say this because while I did enjoy Goku and co vs Merged Zamasu it still felt like a scaled down fight compared to the anime.

The only good thing i found about Goku vs Jiren was the 109/110 special,after that from ep 123 till now seems like they are just stalling and waiting in line for everyone else fights to finish so Goku n Jiren and maybe vegeta to finally go full out and duke it out properly. Plus I am sure Vegeta's new form is 100% Toei to match the kaioken of Goku. Ep 126 will be a nice and welcomed break from all this stalling.

The tiers in the manga will probably be something like:

Hakaishin level - Jiren
Blue level - Goku, Vegeta, Toppo, Hit, Freeza and Kefla.
God Level - Dyspo, Ribrianne, Agnlasa and maybe at least one representative for each of the other Universes.

I disagree, i bet you she will be ssj1 level.

And this i dont see, I'm sure some will, but i am also sure some universes will be total fodder and some barely be ssj1-3 level.

Can't wait, hope the next chapter jumps immediately into the action.

I think, with Super anime ending, Toyotaru should take it slow, atleast till the new movie is about to be released. So i think if he ends the ToP in say august or september will be fine.

[Miracles]

I definitely think Jiren will be the first to push Goku to Blue in the manga. IIRC he went blue against Nink, the Trio de Dangers, Kale, Dyspo, Maji-Kajo and Ribrianne before fighting Jiren in the anime. I could easily imagine the manga not having him go that far, maybe only use SSG against Dyspo, if that fight also happens there.

Agreed. In the manga, Super Saiyan god and Super Saiyan blue are actually respected as the name/level applies, "god."

I expect Goku will go to full power MSSB and get stomped by Jiren much in the same way Vegeta did by Beerus. I also think Goku will only awaken UI once in this arc (during the final fight with Jiren).

Yep. But I don't expect the glamorous transformation for UI will be in the manga like the anime.
I think it will just be a skill set added to Goku. Something like Beerus was using in the fight of the gods.

[micah007]

The only good thing i found about Goku vs Jiren was the 109/110 special,after that from ep 123 till now seems like they are just stalling and waiting in line for everyone else fights to finish so Goku n Jiren and maybe vegeta to finally go full out and duke it out properly. Plus I am sure Vegeta's new form is 100% Toei to match the kaioken of Goku. Ep 126 will be a nice and welcomed break from all this stalling.

The tournament has stalled since the special coming down from that peak, but I still found myself enjoying quite a few fights afterwards. I just hope Toyotaro will portray the excitement of the special, if he does a great job there I could see the manga version being better than the anime assuming the first half in the manga is at least up to par with the anime.

[Dragon Wukong]

If Kefla is treated as Blue-tier in the manga, I hope they at least give her SS3 like what was being hinted at throughout the anime. I big part of me feels like the only reason she didn't get it was because the animators absolutely despise animating it (presumably that's why Goku never moved in the form during the tournament.) I also really hope she doesn't end up being Ultra Instinct tier.

I would prefer if base Kefla > SS3 Goku, SS/2 Kefla <= SSG Goku, and SS3 <= SSB Goku (but make the fusion run out faster.)

That being said, I hope for the love of god he doesn't give Caulifla SS3.

I would also like to see Ribrianne live up to her hype from the anime as a top-tier fighter. I'll admit I dislike her design and character somewhat, but the (supposedly) strongest fighter from U11's mirror-verse had me wanting more. If she's a magical girl I feel like her reaching God-tier can be justified through parodying the genre.

Damon was also far too hyped to be taken down by 17 so easily in a single episode. I also expect Toyotaro to give him the suicide bomber husk/ninja tactics that originally described who he was on the site. I don't expect him to be God-tier necessarily, but in a tournament where managing to just survive and stay on the stage is a tactic there was a lot more potentially for an incredibly small fighter that can leave explosive duplicates of himself throughout the stage and hide his energy. Part of his episode should have revolved around trying to find the invisible fighters only to be tricked by exploding duplicates that slowly wear down U7's stamina, rather than the all-out attack from them we got, IMO.

[Zeru14]

I expect Damon to be hinted at early unlike in the anime, with fighters being knocked out, teleported to the benches, and being confused at the unseen force that pushed them out.

[Black Hawk]

I expect Damon to be hinted at early unlike in the anime, with fighters being knocked out, teleported to the benches, and being confused at the unseen force that pushed them out.

Never have I wanted something to happen so much and not known it until someone suggested it.

[Raphael_Z]

I don't think neither Gohan or 17 are near Blue Level. Them being God Level is already a BIG stretch of suspension of disbelief since that would imply that during the Buu Saga, 17 was more than capable of killing Kid Buu solo.

Placing them between SSJ3 Goku and God Goku is probably for the best with 17 being slightly above Gohan but that's mostly because of his unlimited energy plus an even smarter strategic mind.

[jeffbr92]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Did Zamasu punched Vegeta till he lose some teeth?

[prince212]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Did Zamasu punched Vegeta till he lose some teeth?

Looks like it, but that phrase is not in viz translation