No, that probably won't defeat Geran. SSJBE + KKx20 is about 400x SSJB. We know that with Geran's initial power (EP109), he surpassed FT Arc SSJB Vegetto level opponent aka Cloud Zamasu. We also know that the Vegetto fusion is about any where from a few hundred to a few thousand times Goku/Vegeta in the same form. I also doubt that Goku got much stronger in base than he was the previous arc. The conclusion would be Geran winning likely without moving past the power he did in 109/110.Firebolt wrote:Let's say that after the TOP ends, Goku also achieves SSB Evolution (the sparkly blue form that Vegeta has) and stacks Kaioken X20 on top of that. Would he be strong enough to beat Jiren?
Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"
Spoiler:
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
He would vaporize Jiren, Belmod and Marcarita together with that kind of powerup. Personally, I have Ultra Istinct anywhere between 80-100 times Super Saiyan Blue considering Kefla is comparable to the Genkidama (>SSBKKX20) and SS2 Kefla surpassed initial UI Omen Goku. Current one is even stronger and by mastering it his ki will increase even more.
SSBEvo, or atleast Vegeta, is comparable to SS2 Kefla. Stacking Kaioken on top of it? lol.
SSBEvo, or atleast Vegeta, is comparable to SS2 Kefla. Stacking Kaioken on top of it? lol.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
- PerhapsTheOtherOne
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2661
- Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I don't think so. He seems to be in that odd category like 17 where he's not as strong full-power SSB Goku/Vegeta right now, but still close enough to give fighters at such a level a good match.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
Maybe a bit lower, perhaps around the level of SSB Goku/Vegeta from the Universe 6/7 Tournament, or even back in Resurrection of F.
- SupremeKai25
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4106
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
No. Prior to fusing with Future Zamasu, Goku Black's power had expanded beyond his own comprehension and transcended time and space. I have yet to see Gohan tear an actual rift in the very fabric of reality. Also, in episode 65, Gowasu notes that Goku Black was 'the most powerful'. I don't see how Gohan could have possibly surpassed Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
That argument works as much as saying "I have yet to seen SSJB Vegeta blow up a moon. Therefore he's weaker than Roshi/Piccolo". It just doesn't work.SupremeKai25 wrote:No. Prior to fusing with Future Zamasu, Goku Black's power had expanded beyond his own comprehension and transcended time and space. I have yet to see Gohan tear an actual rift in the very fabric of reality. Also, in episode 65, Gowasu notes that Goku Black was 'the most powerful'. I don't see how Gohan could have possibly surpassed Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
Last edited by Helios518 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"
Spoiler:
- Kenneth La Torre
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1604
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Yes the power up would be too weak. He would probably be at UI omen level of power there, but without the UI part. Taking into account how powerful potara is, and jiren with MUI goku being above even that and the likes of hakaishins, it makes little sense to say he would be above jiren with that.Helios518 wrote:No, that probably won't defeat Geran. SSJBE + KKx20 is about 400x SSJB. We know that with Geran's initial power (EP109), he surpassed FT Arc SSJB Vegetto level opponent aka Cloud Zamasu. We also know that the Vegetto fusion is about any where from a few hundred to a few thousand times Goku/Vegeta in the same form. I also doubt that Goku got much stronger in base than he was the previous arc. The conclusion would be Geran winning likely without moving past the power he did in 109/110.Firebolt wrote:Let's say that after the TOP ends, Goku also achieves SSB Evolution (the sparkly blue form that Vegeta has) and stacks Kaioken X20 on top of that. Would he be strong enough to beat Jiren?
- SupremeKai25
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4106
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
'Blowing up the moon' is not the same as 'tearing a rift through the fabric of reality'. Even Vegeta had a shocked expression after seeing what Black had accomplished with his newfound powers.Helios518 wrote:That argument works as much as saying "I have yet to seen SSJB Vegeta blow up a moon. Therefore he's weaker than Roshi/Piccolo". It just doesn't work.SupremeKai25 wrote:No. Prior to fusing with Future Zamasu, Goku Black's power had expanded beyond his own comprehension and transcended time and space. I have yet to see Gohan tear an actual rift in the very fabric of reality. Also, in episode 65, Gowasu notes that Goku Black was 'the most powerful'. I don't see how Gohan could have possibly surpassed Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
Also, Black stated that his power had grown so much that it had expanded beyond even his own understanding.
- Kenneth La Torre
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1604
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Transcending time and space isn’t what Goku Black did, he ripped a whole in reality, way different (but still implies he has reality warping powers). That’s something that even planet busters could do given they have some sort of reality warping. Transcending time and space allows someone to be omnipresent, being anywhere at anytime, they also have the ability to play with the laws of physics as they please. An example of a being who transcends time and space is the imps from the dc comics.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
It's the same concept, you're judging character by if you've seen them do a destruction feat. if you're seriously going by the logic that "Gohan's weaker than Black because he didn't make a rift" then SSJB Vegetto is weaker than Black.SupremeKai25 wrote:'Blowing up the moon' is not the same as 'tearing a rift through the fabric of reality'. Even Vegeta had a shocked expression after seeing what Black had accomplished with his newfound powers.Helios518 wrote:That argument works as much as saying "I have yet to seen SSJB Vegeta blow up a moon. Therefore he's weaker than Roshi/Piccolo". It just doesn't work.SupremeKai25 wrote:
No. Prior to fusing with Future Zamasu, Goku Black's power had expanded beyond his own comprehension and transcended time and space. I have yet to see Gohan tear an actual rift in the very fabric of reality. Also, in episode 65, Gowasu notes that Goku Black was 'the most powerful'. I don't see how Gohan could have possibly surpassed Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black.
Also, Black stated that his power had grown so much that it had expanded beyond even his own understanding.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"
Spoiler:
- PerhapsTheOtherOne
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2661
- Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
The way I see it, these feats of destruction and broken dimensions and whatnot merely serve to show how strong the characters can be in comparison to their environment.
After that, they go back to fighting normally because there's no point in blowing everything up around you if it's not gonna do anything to your opponent.
After that, they go back to fighting normally because there's no point in blowing everything up around you if it's not gonna do anything to your opponent.
- SupremeKai25
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4106
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Then, tell me, what mastodontic feats has Gohan achieved in this arc that would truly put him above Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black? How can you otherwise estabilish whether Gohan is stronger than Rosé Black or not?Helios518 wrote:It's the same concept, you're judging character by if you've seen them do a destruction feat. if you're seriously going by the logic that "Gohan's weaker than Black because he didn't make a rift" then SSJB Vegetto is weaker than Black.SupremeKai25 wrote:'Blowing up the moon' is not the same as 'tearing a rift through the fabric of reality'. Even Vegeta had a shocked expression after seeing what Black had accomplished with his newfound powers.Helios518 wrote:
That argument works as much as saying "I have yet to seen SSJB Vegeta blow up a moon. Therefore he's weaker than Roshi/Piccolo". It just doesn't work.
Also, Black stated that his power had grown so much that it had expanded beyond even his own understanding.
Also, there's still the fact that Black himself stated that his power had expanded beyond his own comprehension (and Black is a God and a fighting prodigy).
Last edited by SupremeKai25 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Nah, I don't think Gohan is on SSR Black's level. Maybe on Black (Falchion)'s, but Black (Scythe) outclasses him.
With his Shadow Clones both Goku and Vegeta were held back, and the fomer hasn't made amazing gains between arcs since he didn't train and got rusty.
Toppo tanked his Kamehameha while Goku's put some damage on him, for me that's enough to say Gohan isn't on that level but something between Blue and God. Thinking about it, maybe he is similar to initial SSR Black (Sword), but that may be downplaying.
With his Shadow Clones both Goku and Vegeta were held back, and the fomer hasn't made amazing gains between arcs since he didn't train and got rusty.
Toppo tanked his Kamehameha while Goku's put some damage on him, for me that's enough to say Gohan isn't on that level but something between Blue and God. Thinking about it, maybe he is similar to initial SSR Black (Sword), but that may be downplaying.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Well, I wasn't really arguing about current Gohan vs Black, just pointing out that the "I"ve never seen Gohan make a space rift" isn't a good argument. But if you want my stance on it then I think Gohan is near or around current SSJB level but we don't know how current Blue tier matches up with Black at his best.SupremeKai25 wrote: Then, tell me, what mastodontic feats has Gohan achieved in this arc that would truly put him above Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black? How can you otherwise estabilish whether Gohan is stronger than Rosé Black or not?
Also, there's still the fact that Black himself stated that his power had expanded beyond his own comprehension (and Black is a God and a fighting prodigy).
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"
Spoiler:
- Freeza9000
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:51 am
- Location: Outside of time
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
There's no denying that Gohan after reawakening his dormant power has drastically come a long way in comparison to his previous self in the Boo arc. But besides putting up a fight against a suppressed Blue Goku and a fairly powerful combatant in Dyspo, he barely was even a match for Base Toppo who's roughly around the same ballpark of power as Rose Black, maybe a bit higher.ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
- PerhapsTheOtherOne
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2661
- Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Honestly, I'm not even sure SSB Goku and Vegeta are as strong as SSR Goku Black at the end of the Future Trunks Arc.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Are you talking about Super Saiyan Blue Gokou and Vegeta before fighting Jiren?PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Honestly, I'm not even sure SSB Goku and Vegeta are as strong as SSR Goku Black at the end of the Future Trunks Arc.
- TheUltimateNinja
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4020
- Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Black and Gohan are both flies compared to current SSBlues, but Gohan should be even weaker than Black.
- Lord Beerus
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 21389
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
- Location: A temple on a giant tree
- Contact:
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
- Ultra Instinct Goku fights Jiren... a lot... and it seems pretty even
- Jiren continues to withstand everything that Ultra Instinct Goku throws at him with ease
- Goku then masters Ultra Instinct, negate the attack that was meant to finish off Goku and kicks Jirens ass briefly.
Not much to say...
- Jiren continues to withstand everything that Ultra Instinct Goku throws at him with ease
- Goku then masters Ultra Instinct, negate the attack that was meant to finish off Goku and kicks Jirens ass briefly.
Not much to say...
Spoiler:
- Kenneth La Torre
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1604
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Jiren only got hit once by MUI, and it seems like he is very close if he is able to fight competitive. It’s an entire episode between them.Lord Beerus wrote:- Ultra Instinct Goku fights Jiren... a lot... and it seems pretty even
- Jiren continue to withstand everything that Ultra Instinct Goku throws at him with ease
- Goku then masters Ultra Instinct and kicks Jirens ass.
THE END
So what I got from this episode and what we now considered a preview, jiren is easily above UI omen goku, and he seems to only be slightly inferior to MUI goku, or possibly even depending on how it goes.