Tournament of Power is a major let down

[dbs fanboy]

Since my birthday is on March 1st, I'll make a wish. That wish is for this arc to end by it being a bad dream of Bulma's.

If that happens i'll blame you and then cut you in half. Unless you wish the tournament was just your bad dream.

Do it Future Trunks style.

So just gather the power of fanboys to create a giant sword only to fail cuz magically you'll take over (become) the forum?

Something tells me that this may not end up well.

[Torturephile]

If that happens i'll blame you and then cut you in half. Unless you wish the tournament was just your bad dream.

Do it Future Trunks style.

So just gather the power of fanboys to create a giant sword only to fail cuz magically you'll take over (become) the forum?

Something tells me that this may not end up well.

The mods are Zen-Oh, so it will definitely not end well.

[dbs fanboy]

Do it Future Trunks style.

So just gather the power of fanboys to create a giant sword only to fail cuz magically you'll take over (become) the forum?

Something tells me that this may not end up well.

The mods are Zen-Oh, so it will definitely not end well.

Wouldn't this mean that we would eventually get some kind of ToP Kanzenshuu style? Your wish would be ruined then.

[Torturephile]

So just gather the power of fanboys to create a giant sword only to fail cuz magically you'll take over (become) the forum?
Something tells me that this may not end up well.

The mods are Zen-Oh, so it will definitely not end well.

Wouldn't this mean that we would eventually get some kind of ToP Kanzenshuu style? Your wish would be ruined then.

It seems. Well, teams of users should begin to be assembled by mods.

At least my wish would not be ruined if Kazenshuu ToP has well-animated paragraphs with nice sentence choreography and deep, logical plot. Each user should contribute to something before getting banned from existence.

[dbs fanboy]

The mods are Zen-Oh, so it will definitely not end well.

Wouldn't this mean that we would eventually get some kind of ToP Kanzenshuu style? Your wish would be ruined then.

Each user should contribute to something before getting banned from existence.

But what about lurkers?

[Torturephile]

Wouldn't this mean that we would eventually get some kind of ToP Kanzenshuu style? Your wish would be ruined then.

Each user should contribute to something before getting banned from existence.

But what about lurkers?

They're fodder.

[Luffy123]

I felt like the anime should have taken 1 huge 3-month break before doing this arc because u can tell where its been rushed and where hasn't been rushed. Like the special and ep 130,131 was Toei main concern everything else had some good elements sure however way too much-reused animation it occurring all in once. The unnecessary explanation in the stands hold no weight like yu yu hakusho or how hxh would have done that aspect.

Where the manga the author has more control, chapter 33 and 34 showcases the battle royale aspect much more clearly, if u lose concentration for a second ur out, its much more chaotic and in my opinion executed much better. If the anime can't do battle royale they should have just done team battles in a period of hrs instead of fucken 46min. In the manga i feel like the 46min seen more legit however in the anime definitely is not.

[PFM18]

I warned you all during the first two episodes that the arc already had a terrible start and it would set precedents for it to be garbage, but none of you listened.

Well it is a good thing that you were so horrendously amazingly wrong in such a delightful way right? Given it was the furthest thing from garbage producing the greatest fight in the franchise I would definitely say you were premature on that one

[PFM18]

Besides the points I've made in the post, I would like to talk with you guys about 2 things that made me quite uncomfortable during this arc: Vegeta's character regression and the unnecessary "twist" of Freeza betraying Frost.

In the end of Z and through Super, We see another Vegeta, one that cares deeply about his family and is willing to do anything to protect them. But in the special, Vegeta refuses to give energy to Goku's Genki Dama, which brings me the question: did Vegeta really put his rivarly with Goku over his own family? Is this the same Vegeta who refused to enter the ToP to be there for his family but end up entering to save them? And don't tell me he was protecting Goku from Ribrianne, he clearly could have blasted her away and then give his energy to him. This is nothing but a HUGE character regression and a major plot hole for Vegeta's character.

Now talking about the "twist" of Freeza betraying Frost, was it really necessary? If Freeza is so much stronger than Frost and could knock him out so easily, why even bother to put up a fake fight with Gohan? They are making a huge point in saving energy in this tournament, even to the point of Gohan literally prefering to get a terrible beatdown from Jimeze instead of powering up to Ultimate/Mystic. So why would they waste energy pretending to fight while being in their strongest forms if Freeza and Gohan could simply join forces and easily take Frost out? The alliance Freeza made with Frost led them anywhere, it was pointless.

The more I think about this arc, the more I find mistakes and plot holes, it's really sad.

Being that he saved that energy because he wanted/expected to win the Super Dragon Balls himself knowing that the Spirit Bomb probably wouldn't work anyway I would call it anything but a character regression. It is not as simple as "He didnt give his genki therefore he is selfish and not caring about his family" he believes that what is best for his family is to keep his energy and use it more effectively. And considering he beat Toppo who is arguably the 2nd or 3rd strongest enemy in the tournament and he also used this extra energy to wear out Jiren for the longest time and he eventually was too exhausted to take out characters that were previously fodder to him, then I would say he was right in this call.

Edit: Sorry for the double post

[Doctor.]

I warned you all during the first two episodes that the arc already had a terrible start and it would set precedents for it to be garbage, but none of you listened.

Well it is a good thing that you were so horrendously amazingly wrong in such a delightful way right? Given it was the furthest thing from garbage producing the greatest fight in the franchise I would definitely say you were premature on that one

You sound upset.

[PFM18]

I warned you all during the first two episodes that the arc already had a terrible start and it would set precedents for it to be garbage, but none of you listened.

Well it is a good thing that you were so horrendously amazingly wrong in such a delightful way right? Given it was the furthest thing from garbage producing the greatest fight in the franchise I would definitely say you were premature on that one

You sound upset.

Eh it is all relative

[Doctor.]

Well it is a good thing that you were so horrendously amazingly wrong in such a delightful way right? Given it was the furthest thing from garbage producing the greatest fight in the franchise I would definitely say you were premature on that one

You sound upset.

Eh it is all relative

Fair enough, but I do want you to know that when I say the Tournament of Power is the single worst arc in the entire series, I say it as a fan of Dragon Ball, not as an irrational hater. I've been vocal about how I thought Super made Beerus a better character in the BoG retelling, how RoF was an improvement over the movie in every single possible way (animation aside) and how the Black arc, in spite of its faults, was extremely entertaining. So if I criticize the ToP as harshly as I do, you can bet there's nothing besides its narrative that is influencing me.

[PFM18]

You sound upset.

Eh it is all relative

Fair enough, but I do want you to know that when I say the Tournament of Power is the single worst arc in the entire series, I say it as a fan of Dragon Ball, not as an irrational hater. I've been vocal about how I thought Super made Beerus a better character in the BoG retelling, how RoF was an improvement over the movie in every single possible way (animation aside) and how the Black arc, in spite of its faults, was extremely entertaining. So if I criticize the ToP as harshly as I do, you can bet there's nothing besides its narrative that is influencing me.

Now, if we are talking about the single worst arc in the entire franchise and criticizing it for a lack of story, doesn't that apply to the other 4 tournament arcs within the franchise? None of them had a particularly compelling narrative outside of MAYBE the one with tenshinhan in the final against Goku in which he lost. I am curious to know why you would rank the ToP the lowest even among this tournament archetype of arcs.

Me personally, I enjoyed it as much or more than anything other than the Namek Arc and maybe the Cell arc.

[MKCSTEALTH]

Only thing that disappointed me was the fact 17 and Piccolo didn't have a team up episode. Especially how it was teased during the post tournament arc.

Otherwise, the anime was fine. Though it didn't feel like a true Battle Royale but more like U7 vs Everyone. The manga appears to be rectifying this somewhat

[PFM18]

Only thing that disappointed me was the fact 17 and Piccolo didn't have a team up episode. Especially how it was teased during the post tournament arc.

Otherwise, the anime was fine. Though it didn't feel like a true Battle Royale but more like U7 vs Everyone. The manga appears to be rectifying this somewhat

Ok see the thing is that people look at this tournament and don't understand that for each of the things that they want there has to be some give and take. They will say on one side of the coin that they want all of the characters on U7 to get significan action/eliminations otherwise they are considered a "waste" but at the same time on the other side of the coin they want there to be more of the fights without U7 involved. So just by inherently having more of the side characters get action it automatically means that it is "U7 vs Everyone"to a higher extent. If they had more non Universe 7 action it would give side characters within Universe 7 less opportunity to get spotlight. You literally can't have both. If you have "too much" usage by all of the Universe 7 characters that means there is going to be an inherent lack of action between other universes. This is one of the criticisms that people give and I don't think people really understand the situation very well. Given that there is an inverse relationship between these two things I think they made the smarter choice of having more action among U7 members and less conflicts between non U7 universes.

[Asura]

Only thing that disappointed me was the fact 17 and Piccolo didn't have a team up episode. Especially how it was teased during the post tournament arc.

Otherwise, the anime was fine. Though it didn't feel like a true Battle Royale but more like U7 vs Everyone. The manga appears to be rectifying this somewhat

Holy shit, you got the entire scene in your avatar, I literally stared at it watching the whole thing for like 30 seconds.

And I agree with the lack of 17 and Piccolo team up, quite disappointing.

[Lord Beerus]

Only thing that disappointed me was the fact 17 and Piccolo didn't have a team up episode. Especially how it was teased during the post tournament arc.

Otherwise, the anime was fine. Though it didn't feel like a true Battle Royale but more like U7 vs Everyone. The manga appears to be rectifying this somewhat

Holy shit, you got the entire scene in your avatar, I literally stared at it watching the whole thing for like 30 seconds.

And I agree with the lack of 17 and Piccolo team up, quite disappointing.

At least they got some closure in Episode 95.

[Doctor.]

Now, if we are talking about the single worst arc in the entire franchise and criticizing it for a lack of story, doesn't that apply to the other 4 tournament arcs within the franchise? None of them had a particularly compelling narrative outside of MAYBE the one with tenshinhan in the final against Goku in which he lost. I am curious to know why you would rank the ToP the lowest even among this tournament archetype of arcs.

Me personally, I enjoyed it as much or more than anything other than the Namek Arc and maybe the Cell arc.

I never criticized the ToP for the lack of a story. It has a story, it's just a bad one. My problem lies with its lack of structural coherence: plot points get introduced only to get dropped next episode, characters are wasted for no reason, character arcs are incomplete or just rushed, the arc doesn't really comprehend the severity of its premise, so on and so forth.

[PFM18]

Now, if we are talking about the single worst arc in the entire franchise and criticizing it for a lack of story, doesn't that apply to the other 4 tournament arcs within the franchise? None of them had a particularly compelling narrative outside of MAYBE the one with tenshinhan in the final against Goku in which he lost. I am curious to know why you would rank the ToP the lowest even among this tournament archetype of arcs.

Me personally, I enjoyed it as much or more than anything other than the Namek Arc and maybe the Cell arc.

I never criticized the ToP for the lack of a story. It has a story, it's just a bad one. My problem lies with its lack of structural coherence: plot points get introduced only to get dropped next episode, characters are wasted for no reason, character arcs are incomplete or just rushed, the arc doesn't really comprehend the severity of its premise, so on and so forth.

I am curious what specifically you are referring to when you say "plot points get introduced only to get dropped next episode." I could be wrong but the only two that come to mind to me are when they say that Toppo needs time to charge his Hakai and you were lead to believe that would mean something and it didn't and then in 126 it is said that Vegeta has no energy left and then in 127 he goes to SSBE with no issues.

[Doctor.]

I am curious what specifically you are referring to when you say "plot points get introduced only to get dropped next episode." I could be wrong but the only two that come to mind to me are when they say that Toppo needs time to charge his Hakai and you were lead to believe that would mean something and it didn't and then in 126 it is said that Vegeta has no energy left and then in 127 he goes to SSBE with no issues.

There's plenty of examples of this shit. I'd have to rewatch the arc to list all of them. How many times were two characters fighting only for them to be fighting completely different characters in the next episode? How many times were character arcs repeated (Vegeta's speeches, Toppo saying justice is useless TWICE, Kale going through the same arc of gaining confidence TWICE)? There is also, of course, the entire premise of the Zen Exhibition, which was Goku being such a naive and reckless individual to the universe (something Beerus specifically points out, so whether or not you believe it is correct, the characters themselves did), something that gets dropped almost immediately.